Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

First Up · 23-06-2019 05:51PM

Laois_Man wrote:

By misreporting everything - e.g. He didn't bow his head low enough when laying a wreath on reemergence day - he doesn't care as much as May!

That is nonsense but I'd be more concerned that his economic policies would drive out investment.

There's a saying that capital goes where it is made most welcome and whether Corbyn likes it or not, you need capital to create wealth.

Headshot · 23-06-2019 05:51PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Tory press are attacking the couple who recorded the BJ fracas (deliberately) in the normal 'attack the messenger' rather than report the message.

Did you expect anything different? When they can't defend BJ they just try to attack the messenger.

Sam Russell · 23-06-2019 05:56PM

Headshot wrote: »

Did you expect anything different? When they can't defend BJ they just try to attack the messenger.

Does not make it right.

They have a history of it, Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock, Ed Miliband, and now, Jezza.

I think BJ will be an easy target for lampoons.

trellheim · 23-06-2019 06:17PM

I had a long talk with relatives in deepest oxfordshire during the week. The main feeling is sickness of the whole thing, and 'just get 'er done' no matter the outcome or end result - and I do mean whatever up to and including no deal . This seems apparent across a large cross-section.

First Up · 23-06-2019 06:30PM

trellheim wrote:

I had a long talk with relatives in deepest oxfordshire during the week. The main feeling is sickness of the whole thing, and 'just get 'er done' no matter the outcome or end result - and I do mean whatever up to and including no deal . This seems apparent across a large cross-section.

Yes, they see Brexit as they end, not the beginning.

They'll learn.

Enzokk · 23-06-2019 06:41PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

By misreporting everything - e.g. He didn't bow his head low enough when laying a wreath on reemergence day - he doesn't care as much as May!

Ridiculous!

Like any Labour leader he has had to face a hostile press. The problem for Corbyn is that antisemitism seems to float around him and his office which the press did not do. Then you have his policy on Brexit, which again is not some manufacturing of the press. He has had a tough time with the press but most of his problems is his own making. Let us not forget how the press attacked Ed Milliband, Corbyn isn't special in the attacks he has faced.

Stop moaning ffs · 23-06-2019 06:45PM

First Up wrote: »

Yes, they see Brexit as they end, not the beginning.

They'll learn.

On that.

They all collectively both sides leave and remain, seem unaware that this is just stage one.

Next stage is where it really comes home to bite and the screw gets turned.
By every single nation and trading block they have to sit down with.

It hasn’t even started yet and they don’t realise.

trellheim · 23-06-2019 06:47PM

First Up wrote: »

Yes, they see Brexit as they end, not the beginning.

They'll learn.

The people in question were strong remainers and still are . The utter weariness of the whole thing means everyone just wants to move on, no matter the cost. And to those saying "they don't realise etc, I suspect they do and pandora cannot close the box, but they have to move on"

I suspect this feeling has been wargamed very carefully by ERG types

Lackadaisical · 23-06-2019 06:48PM

The biggest problem is they don't understand or care what this "it" they're demanding be done actually involves.

I keep hearing this from English people I know too : oh let's just get on with it. Get "it" done, like as if they're talking about booking in to get a root canal done.

Pulling the plug on a huge % of integrated systems isn't going to be simple at all.
A whole lot of things that they're currently taking for granted will suddenly cease to function and they keep insisting that it's all fake news and nonsense because reality doesn't suit them.

Nody · 23-06-2019 06:50PM

First Up wrote: »

That is nonsense but I'd be more concerned that his economic policies would drive out investment.

There's a saying that capital goes where it is made most welcome and whether Corbyn likes it or not, you need capital to create wealth.

And hard brexit (which has been the story for the last two years) would be driving investments how exactly? Not that I think Corbyn is exactly business friendly but looking at the two options I'd argue he's more business friendly than the current Tories (though a third option would be much better) but not the business friendly option until the Brexit election results were done (it muddles after that were you want to cut it between Corbyn and May switching positions as the most business friendly option).

Joe_ Public · 23-06-2019 07:02PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Apparently there's also a plot within the Tories to have Johnson gone within a day of being PM via an immediate no confidence vote.

Have read this, it's interesting but hard to see how exactly it unfolds. So Johnson becomes PM 24 July, Labour table no confidence motion on 25th which, with backing of anti-Johnson tory MPs, Johnson loses. So Johnson steps down and GE is called, presuming Corbyn can't then form a gov.

In that scenario I would think any Con MP voting against Johnson would then be almost certain to be deselected for any forthcoming GE? Also, i wonder would Johnson himself be that distraught about it, as it gets him to an early GE without having failed to deliver Brexit which, i imagine, is his worst nightmare. He could face his electorate, bemoaning this stab in the back from his enemies and pleading, just give me a majority and i'll deliver brexit. Not sure it'd work, mind, but may be one of his best chances.

Tell me how · 23-06-2019 07:11PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Tory press are attacking the couple who recorded the BJ fracas (deliberately) in the normal 'attack the messenger' rather than report the message.

Off topic but we have similar issues here looking at questions into investigating a certain swinger from SCD.

Alyson Pearson could be charged with inciting unrest with her tweets about the neighbors.

First Up · 23-06-2019 07:54PM

Nody wrote:

And hard brexit (which has been the story for the last two years) would be driving investments how exactly? Not that I think Corbyn is exactly business friendly but looking at the two options I'd argue he's more business friendly than the current Tories (though a third option would be much better) but not the business friendly option until the Brexit election results were done (it muddles after that were you want to cut it between Corbyn and May switching positions as the most business friendly option).

Hard Brexit drives investment away. Business can only succeed if it has access to inputs and markets. Brexit suffocates both. Protectionism just disguises and postpones reality.

Sam Russell · 23-06-2019 08:06PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Have read this, it's interesting but hard to see how exactly it unfolds. So Johnson becomes PM 24 July, Labour table no confidence motion on 25th which, with backing of anti-Johnson tory MPs, Johnson loses. So Johnson steps down and GE is called, presuming Corbyn can't then form a gov.

In that scenario I would think any Con MP voting against Johnson would then be almost certain to be deselected for any forthcoming GE? Also, i wonder would Johnson himself be that distraught about it, as it gets him to an early GE without having failed to deliver Brexit which, i imagine, is his worst nightmare. He could face his electorate, bemoaning this stab in the back from his enemies and pleading, just give me a majority and i'll deliver brexit. Not sure it'd work, mind, but may be one of his best chances.

That is the point. If BJ cannot guarantee a majority in the HoC (or at least if TM believes he cannot) then she cannot recommend him as PM, and she has to recommend a GE. She would have to be certain of it, but if 20 or 30 Tory MPs inform her of their intention to not support him, she would have little choice. The prospective PM has to be able to command a majority.

The dissenting MPs do not need to be named.

54and56 · 23-06-2019 08:25PM

trellheim wrote: »

I had a long talk with relatives in deepest oxfordshire during the week. The main feeling is sickness of the whole thing, and 'just get 'er done' no matter the outcome or end result - and I do mean whatever up to and including no deal . This seems apparent across a large cross-section.

Deal fatigue is peaking.

This is going to be a case study in how not to negotiate......for generations to come.

Joe_ Public · 23-06-2019 08:34PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is the point. If BJ cannot guarantee a majority in the HoC (or at least if TM believes he cannot) then she cannot recommend him as PM, and she has to recommend a GE. She would have to be certain of it, but if 20 or 30 Tory MPs inform her of their intention to not support him, she would have little choice. The prospective PM has to be able to command a majority.

The dissenting MPs do not need to be named.

Its a very interesting scenario, that's for sure. You'd think if this does develop into a possible outcome, and i dont see why it couldn't, then Hunt would surely become a safer bet for a sizeable number of johnson supporting tory mps. Then again, they seem so wedded to the idea of Johnson as an election winner that's its hard to be sure about any of it. They are in one hell of a fix whatever happens. People say Labour are in just a big a jam, but i think their issues are just about fixable. Not so sure about the conservatives right now.

listermint · 23-06-2019 08:48PM

Very interesting article here about origin's of brexit in Oxford in the 80s

https://www.ft.com/content/85fc694c-9222-11e9-b7ea-60e35ef678d2

Water John · 23-06-2019 09:18PM

The threat from Tory MPs like Ken Clarke is not, to refuse to support Johnson in a vote of confidence or elect him PM. Their threat is to not allow the HOC allow a, no deal Brexit. If that is what Johnson goes with, they will then vote against the Govn't.

Thargor · 23-06-2019 09:36PM

Boris is getting hammered on Twitter about this Bannon tape, he previously denied any relationship with him and called it lefty delusion but Bannon claims in a new documentary to be heavily involved with him, back and forths over writing his resignation speech, advised him to target Muslim women etc.

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1142883370856275971

Sam Russell · 23-06-2019 09:37PM

Water John wrote: »

The threat from Tory MPs like Ken Clarke is not, to refuse to support Johnson in a vote of confidence or elect him PM. Their threat is to not allow the HOC allow a, no deal Brexit. If that is what Johnson goes with, they will then vote against the Govn't.

I think some of the Tories are likely to take fright if it looks like there is public revulsion wrt to BJ. He has many skeletons both in the cupboard and in full view.

If they make it known to TM before the result is in, BJ might be made to withdraw from the race by he grey suits.

Leroy42 · 23-06-2019 09:44PM

This is quite an incredible statement by Hunt.

https://twitter.com/march_change/status/1142877478849044480?s=09

Basically, a well run local company employing 350 people and commanding significant portion of the EU market would be forced out of business as a result of 10% tariffs.

But sure that's the will of the people so he basically says screw em!

Water John · 23-06-2019 09:49PM

The tape is part of a docu on Steve Bannon that was not used in the final cut. It's importance is now. I'm sure Sky News or Channel 4 will oblige,

BonnieSituation · 23-06-2019 09:53PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

This is quite an incredible statement by Hunt.

https://twitter.com/march_change/status/1142877478849044480?s=09

Basically, a well run local company employing 350 people and commanding significant portion of the EU market would be forced out of business as a result of 10% tariffs.

But sure that's the will of the people so he basically says screw em!

Fixed that link

Leroy42 · 23-06-2019 09:58PM

How do link properly on mobile?

Thargor · 23-06-2019 10:31PM

Mad world in the UK atm:

https://twitter.com/inthesedeserts/status/1142698889222467585

devnull · 23-06-2019 10:42PM

Tomorrow's Sun

x6VJcFmoTr074ZozR70g_The%20Sun.JPG

Tommorows Mail

7uQ2JHKTuSntJXrhgkSA_Daily%20Mail.JPG

First time I've seen both of those papers taking opposite stances to each other for quite some time, but think this will run and run for a little while yet and he could be haunted by it if the press really stick it up to him.

Water John · 23-06-2019 10:51PM

The 'anarchists' are camped outside their house??

devnull · 23-06-2019 10:53PM

I have to say, that when it starts going to say things like a friend, a source said and pretty much no details on the source are named, there is always the chance that it may not have been said at all or it was a planted story.

Another different take from the Mirror.
p4jovZ0qRQqr2rAiOmh4_Boris%20Johnson.JPG

p4jovZ0qRQqr2rAiOmh4_Boris%20Johnson.JPG

trellheim · 23-06-2019 10:57PM

First time I've seen both of those papers taking opposite stances to each other for quite some time, but think this will run and run for a little while yet and he could be haunted by it if the press really stick it up to him.

its an attempt to own the news cycle dont forget some of the smartest people in media are trying to get rid of this

Strazdas · 24-06-2019 12:35AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

This is quite an incredible statement by Hunt.

https://twitter.com/march_change/status/1142877478849044480?s=09

Basically, a well run local company employing 350 people and commanding significant portion of the EU market would be forced out of business as a result of 10% tariffs.

But sure that's the will of the people so he basically says screw em!

Insane comment. In a normal democracy, any policy that was clearly going to trash the economy would be binned instantly, no matter who was in power. To be talking about doing this and using 'democracy' in the same sentence is disgusting stuff.

Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

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