Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

iamwhoiam · 19-06-2019 08:26PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

He did have injuries.

I know he had injuries but wasn’t sure about wounds that bled . He had an injured wrist and limping on his leg .

Ursus Horribilis · 19-06-2019 08:27PM

I hate what these two scrotes did but we can't just throw the laws of the land aside because this is such an emotive case. They were entitled to be defended at the trial and we should not blame the barrister for doing his job. Nor should we condemn the system for giving them legal aid. This case being brought to a successful conclusion was an example of our system functioning properly.

tayto lover · 19-06-2019 08:27PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

One thing that has confused me. It took days to find Ana but she had her phone. There was no mention of phone data. Did she turn it off?

The found was found near her body and it was smashed in bits.

Ursus Horribilis · 19-06-2019 08:28PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

One thing that has confused me. It took days to find Ana but she had her phone. There was no mention of phone data. Did she turn it off?

I'm pretty sure I read that her phone had been smashed to pieces.

airy fairy · 19-06-2019 08:28PM

Perhaps this has been asked and discussed already, but as boy A has been charged with aggravated sexual assault along with the murder, is that not grounds to be put on the sex offenders list? Surely then his anonymity cannot be kept?

iamwhoiam · 19-06-2019 08:28PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

One thing that has confused me. It took days to find Ana but she had her phone. There was no mention of phone data. Did she turn it off?

The Garda found her phone on the floor in the room in a few bits . It was smashed as far as I recall

NeonWolf · 19-06-2019 08:30PM

I don't want to derail the thread but I have been thinking about how Paddy Jackson and his buddies were spared no anonymity and found innocent, yet these two absolute scumbags have their identities protected after taking a girls life in the most callous manner.

Strange old world .

readysetgo · 19-06-2019 08:30PM

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/teen-enjoyed-outlining-the-harm-he-caused-to-victims-of-serious-assaults-362944.html
there was a case in cork a few years ago where reporting restrictions on a youth were lifted so it isnt without precedence?

also, with the internet how could they enforce for instance a foreign based media company or blog publishing the boys names?

Sunflower 27 · 19-06-2019 08:31PM

volchitsa wrote: »

He did have injuries, he was seen by his GP who said they could be defensive injuries (I presume this was initially when there was no other scenario being suggested).

Wasn't he limping as well in the CCTV footage when he was seen walking back through the park? Looks like Ana may have got a decent kick in during the attack.

The attack by two men story was possibly hurriedly thought up to explain A's injuries, which he may not have expected or predicted.

And reall as if anyone is going to believe a 13- year-old kid managed to scare off two grown men in an attack. Of course it raised suspicion

80sChild · 19-06-2019 08:32PM

airy fairy wrote: »

Perhaps this has been asked and discussed already, but as boy A has been charged with aggravated sexual assault along with the murder, is that not grounds to be put on the sex offenders list? Surely then his anonymity cannot be kept?

Very good point, hadn't occurred to me nor have I read or heard this angle being discussed.

Sunflower 27 · 19-06-2019 08:33PM

readysetgo wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/teen-enjoyed-outlining-the-harm-he-caused-to-victims-of-serious-assaults-362944.html
there was a case in cork a few years ago where reporting restrictions on a youth were lifted so it isnt without precedence?

also, with the internet how could they enforce for instance a foreign based media company or blog publishing the boys names?

I thought that as well. UK tabloids spring to mind.

mrjoneill · 19-06-2019 08:36PM

gozunda wrote: »

No didnt read into that tbh. The comment was in addition.

Its possible that boy b had 'gear' as well. He was observed carrying a backpack when he called for Ana. I don't believe theat backpack was found tbh

CCTV showed Boy B carried a rucksack, but I heard no evidence to its contents. As for Boys B presence which is not a crime on its own but he was able to indicate where the body of Ana was found. Forensic evidence indicate that Ana was moved after her murder my pulling her by the ligature around her neck, a ligature Boy B provided. We also know from forensics that Ana was bludgeoned a some stage when standing upright from the blood spatter which conflicts with the weasel Boy B account. Boy B claims he was at the door of room, it was there than Ana was bludgeoned and murdered. Boy B strikes me as far from the innocent accomplice but a conniving thug far beyond his yrs. He believed he would not be identified as calling for Ana. As for the reason to give her a message the Boy A wanted to meet her to tell her he didn't want to go-out with her. This could have been told any day at school they all went to. As for the tape as I understand it is sealing adhesive tape to stop ingress of moisture around insulation. I have no doubt it was planned for to tie up Ana but did not go as planned when Ana resisted. Would not be surprised that Ana was in some way restrained by Boy B or he participated in her assault. I also find curious Boy B statement to his psychologist that it was only when Boy A stood up did he realize his pants was open at the crotch. Boy A wore a track-bottoms and there is no front-openings to such. Only reason Boy B told so many lies is he has so much to coverup. The fact Boy B brought Ana 3km from her home to meet Boy A shows he is indeed very complicit in the conspiracy to kill. It has changed my whole understanding of innocence that 2 13yr old could be so devious without any regret. Boy B believed in several of his statement he could demean Ana, calling her a "slut", "wouldn't be seen dead with her" shows he is indeed a very twisted young-fellow. Long may they stay in prison, to be so twisted so young is a very adverse indicator for the future.

Hannibal_Smith · 19-06-2019 08:36PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

My question is did his parents look where the wound was that caused his bleeding ? Or maybe he did actually have wounds caused by Ana defending herself ?

I wondered this too. But apparently she was hit as soon as she walked into where Boy A was. So it doesn't seem like she was able to defend herself?

I read yesterday that when she went missing police were searching the park and came across a man and a boy out for a walk. They stopped to talk to the police. They later discovered it was Boy A and his dad. There he was walking through the park with his dad chatting to police all the while knowing she was dead because of her in that manky place.

The teacher said he was an intelligent boy with not an ounce of trouble from him.

You never think of something like this happening and to think two 13 year old came up with it, carried it out a d calmly tried to get away with it. It's crazy stuff

19-06-2019 08:37PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Would you really see it as evidence for a hiding though? its not very serious really, the injuries would be enough i'd think myself and I'd just wash my own clothes if I planned to keep them

Speaking as a parent. If my 13 year old came home injured and covered in blood and told me he was attacked by adult males in the park, I’d call the guards. I wouldn’t be washing any clothes until I’d at least checked if they would be needed.

fryup · 19-06-2019 08:38PM

readysetgo wrote: »

also, with the internet how could they enforce for instance a foreign based media company or blog publishing the boys names?

exactly, a website that is based overseas?? out of the jurisdiction?

tayto lover · 19-06-2019 08:38PM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

I wondered this too. But apparently she was hit as soon as she walked into where Boy A was. So it doesn't seem like she was able to defend herself?

I read yesterday that when she went missing police were searching the park and came across a man and a boy out for a walk. They stopped to talk to the police. They later discovered it was Boy A and his dad. There he was walking through the park with his dad chatting to police all the while knowing she was dead because of her in that manky place.

The teacher said he was an intelligent boy with not an ounce of trouble from him.

You never think of something like this happening and to think two 13 year old came up with it, carried it out a d calmly tried to get away with it. It's crazy stuff

Ana fought like a tiger for her life. She had defensive wounds. Her nails were broken.
Jaysus lads read the court reports. It’s all there.

volchitsa · 19-06-2019 08:39PM

NeonWolf wrote: »

I don't want to derail the thread but I have been thinking about how Paddy Jackson and his buddies were spared no anonymity and found innocent, yet these two absolute scumbags have their identities protected after taking a girls life in the most callous manner.

Strange old world .

They were 13, you might disagree with them being given anonymity, but on the face of it, it's hardly "strange" for the law to treat 13 year olds differently to adults. If these kids had been 18 their names would have been made public.

And fwiw, Jackson was found not guilty which is not the same as being innocent. That's the point about the benefit of any doubt going to the defendant. Just because something can't be proved beyond any reasonable doubt doesn't mean it didn't happen.

(This is a general comment about people confusing a "not guilty" verdict with the idea that this means no wrongdoing occurred - not at comment about PJ specifically).

gozunda · 19-06-2019 08:43PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Boy B, also found guilty of murder, was a friend of Boy A. He described to gardaí how Boy A was planning to kill Ana.

In the recordings of interviews played in court, Boy B told gardaí that he was in school when he was approached by Boy A around a month before Ana died.

“I was in school by myself. He came up to me and said ‘hey, wanna kill somebody?’. I said no. He replied with ‘ah, here. Why not’. [I said] because it’s retarded. I then asked him who he was planning to kill and he replied ‘Ana Kriegel’. I replied with ‘in your dreams’. Then he just went. I didn’t think he was being serious.”

The court previously heard that Boy A had asked Boy B to call in for Ana and to arrange to meet in the park. The reason given for this was that Boy A could tell Ana that he was not romantically interested in her.

Boy B was asked by gardaí why Boy A’s bag – which he brought with him when going to the park – contained a mask, gloves, knee pads and shin pads if he was there to deal with a relationship matter.

Boy B responded: “He was planning to kill Ana – I didn’t know.”

That is somewhat vague - is that saying boy B was carrying Boy A's bag or if Boy B knew what was in the bag Boy A brought with him?

From the Irish Times Article linked above

Seconds after Ana left (her father) realised he had forgotten to ask her where she was going. He went to the door where he saw Ana walking towards St Catherine’s Park. The boy, who carried a small backpack walked ahead of her. The two didn’t appear to be talking

What was in boy B's bag? ...

major bill · 19-06-2019 08:44PM

I always find there is a lot of Naivety from the law when it comes to the internet! Facebook and Twitter reps summoned to court over the distribution of the boys names / pics like how the **** do they expect something like this not to go viral throughout the various social media platforms so punishing a heavy fine is silly and shows how out of touch these people are! I Understand the law that these boys can’t be named but it’s a law that isn’t fit for the current climate when anything can be accessed within a click of a button!

mrjoneill · 19-06-2019 08:44PM

swarlb wrote: »

As I mentioned in a previous post I have a daughter of similar age and background to Ana. She (I won't say suffered) went through similar issues at school, mostly because of her looks (she is striking and looks older than her age) and mostly from girls, who seemed afraid because she looked 'different', the boys were also 'afraid' but for different reasons. We live in a rural community, and I found that the parents of the children involved were the ones who made the complaints to the school. My daughter is very strong willed and would hit back immediately when provoked... yet it was ME who had to account for her behaviour. The school basically just wanted peace, and tended to side with the majority. There was a change of Principal who did make a difference foe a while, but she moved on (abroad) to greener pastures. On one occasion prior to her departure she apologised to us for the behaviour of the school. We ended up moving her to a different school, and the experience seems so far to have worked.
From my experience I don't think schools intervene enough, especially as regards internet, and the fact that kids these days are taking in so much.
And it saddens me in a way that the reason we chose Russia to adopt was partly because we thought that the child would 'fit in' easier because they were of similar looks to ourselves... how wrong we were.

Bullying is such a big issue not only in schools but workplaces. I have seen incredible evidence reaching the courts of what appeared normal girls did to another girl in school & these from upper-class areas. As for workplace we had in a workplace in the Kerry-Cork border a guy take his own life as the result very recently. Employer is would seem did nothing.

Spanish Eyes · 19-06-2019 08:45PM

You know what?

In a few weeks this will all be forgotten, and all the supports will be be for the accused/perpetrators and all the chatter will be about them rather than the bereaved.

Terrible to me anyway.

retro:electro · 19-06-2019 08:46PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Ana fought like a tiger for her life. She had defensive wounds. Her nails were broken.
Jaysus lads read the court reports. It’s all there.

The most harrowing part for me, and I’ll spolier it because it’s upsetting, is how

when she was found she had three fingers under the tape around her neck as if she was trying to force it off, and her false nails were found scattered all over the room such is the force she was attacked with.

I think that description will stay with me always.

mirrorwall14 · 19-06-2019 08:46PM

Please be aware that at least one of the photos being shared on social media platforms is of an entirely innocent boy of the same age

thecretinhop · 19-06-2019 08:48PM

volchitsa wrote: »

NeonWolf wrote: »

I don't want to derail the thread but I have been thinking about how Paddy Jackson and his buddies were spared no anonymity and found innocent, yet these two absolute scumbags have their identities protected after taking a girls life in the most callous manner.

Strange old world .

They were 13, you might disagree with them being given anonymity, but on the face of it, it's hardly "strange" for the law to treat 13 year olds differently to adults. If these kids had been 18 their names would have been made public.

And fwiw, Jackson was found not guilty which is not the same as being innocent. That's the point about the benefit of any doubt going to the defendant. Just because something can't be proved beyond any reasonable doubt doesn't mean it didn't happen.

(This is a general comment about people confusing a "not guilty" verdict with the idea that this means no wrongdoing occurred - not at comment about PJ specifically).

Jesus wept not innocent..

Gimme A Pound · 19-06-2019 08:48PM

volchitsa wrote: »

They were 13, you might disagree with them being given anonymity, but on the face of it, it's hardly "strange" for the law to treat 13 year olds differently to adults. If these kids had been 18 their names would have been made public.

And fwiw, Jackson was found not guilty which is not the same as being innocent. That's the point about the benefit of any doubt going to the defendant. Just because something can't be proved beyond any reasonable doubt doesn't mean it didn't happen.

(This is a general comment about people confusing a "not guilty" verdict with the idea that this means no wrongdoing occurred - not at comment about PJ specifically).

Different jurisdiction too.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You know what?

In a few weeks this will all be forgotten, and all the supports will be be for the accused/perpetrators and all the chatter will be about them rather than the bereaved.

What grounds do you have for being so certain of that?

Gimme A Pound · 19-06-2019 08:49PM

thecretinhop wrote: »

Jesus wept not innocent..

It's not incorrect about "not guilty" though.

Dante7 · 19-06-2019 08:50PM

major bill wrote: »

I always find there is a lot of Naivety from the law when it comes to the internet! Facebook and Twitter reps summoned to court over the distribution of the boys names / pics like how the **** do they expect something like this not to go viral throughout the various social media platforms so punishing a heavy fine is silly and shows how out of touch these people are! I Understand the law that these boys can’t be named but it’s a law that isn’t fit for the current climate when anything can be accessed within a click of a button!

It does appear that the courts here haven't a notion wrt to the European e-commerce directive.

https://twitter.com/tjmcintyre/status/1141437436582645761?s=19

Sunflower 27 · 19-06-2019 08:50PM

The way she was found made me think she may not have died while A was there. Would he have not moved her hands away if she was trying to gasp for air?

I don't think we will ever know the full truth.

fryup · 19-06-2019 08:50PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Please be aware that at least one of the photos being shared on social media platforms is of an entirely innocent boy of the same age

this is where its going to get messy.....boys with same/similar names will be misidentified

Kcpeaches · 19-06-2019 08:53PM

airy fairy wrote: »

Perhaps this has been asked and discussed already, but as boy A has been charged with aggravated sexual assault along with the murder, is that not grounds to be put on the sex offenders list? Surely then his anonymity cannot be kept?

Such a good question - would love to know how this is handled in the law.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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