Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

pjohnson

SirChenjin wrote: »

He claimed to have been beaten up so I suppose the parents at that point believed him and so the clothes were washed.

The parents still believe them

iamwhoiam

Boom_Bap wrote: »

That was Boy A, and I do question whether they were innocently washed and how could blood stained clothes be innocently washed.
The shoes were also cleaned, but not to full remove blood spatter.

Boy A apparently told his parents that he was attacked in St Catherines Park by two men . Now I can understand a mother seeing her son with blood on his clothes not immediately jumping to the conclusion that he murdered someone
She probably believed he was attacked and washed his clothes to remove the blood
My question is did his parents look where the wound was that caused his bleeding ? Or maybe he did actually have wounds caused by Ana defending herself ?

Boom_Bap

Boom_Bap wrote: »

That was Boy A, and I do question whether they were innocently washed and how could blood stained clothes be innocently washed.
The shoes were also cleaned, but not to full remove blood spatter.

Especially when Boy A was injured and said those injuries were the result of two males attacking him.

Ring the Gardaí or wash the evidence?

tuxy

Boom_Bap wrote: »

That was Boy A, and I do question whether they were innocently washed and how could blood stained clothes be innocently washed.
The shoes were also cleaned, but not to full remove blood spatter.

He claimed he had been started on by two adults and was in a fight so it's possible his mother believed him.

His bag including most of its contents had Ana's blood on them when tested. It would seem no serious effort was made to remove DNA.

Beechwoodspark

As I said in my post on the first page of this thread shame on the parents.

Hope they never have a days peace in their lives again after the charade they tried. Pure insult to the victims family.

I suspect there’s way more to this than has come out so far.

iamwhoiam

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Especially when Boy A was injured and said those injuries were the result of two males attacking him.

Ring the Gardaí or wash the evidence?

The father drove A to the park ranger in the park to inform him of the attack
The ranger in turn phoned the Gardai

decky1

nehemiah wrote: »

Victims ' families do get help, they would have had access to Family Liaison officers throughout this time.

But anyway, you're just expressing outrage. Darren Goodwin served 13 years in jail from the age of 16. This is not 'life' of course and perhaps not much in the scheme of things but there seems to be little chance that these two (especially Boy A) will serve any less than that time. My prediction is that Boy A will serve no less than 20 years given the violence and sexual nature of the crime.

i do hope the judge agrees with you, her parents will never see her again , these two can get visits from their parents every week yes it is outrage.

volchitsa

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Boy A apparently told his parents that he was attacked in St Catherines Park by two men . Now I can understand a mother seeing her son with blood on his clothes not immediately jumping to the conclusion that he murdered someone
She probably believed he was attacked and washed his clothes to remove the blood
My question is did his parents look where the wound was that caused his bleeding ? Or maybe he did actually have wounds caused by Ana defending herself ?

He did have injuries, he was seen by his GP who said they could be defensive injuries (I presume this was initially when there was no other scenario being suggested).

tayto lover

Damien360 wrote: »

The Irish times did a very good piece yesterday online about this. There is no evidence against Boy B other than his admissions in Garda interviews. If he kept his mouth shut, it is likely he would never have been charged.

Again.

1. Boy A told him he was going to murder Ana.
2. Boy B took her to the scene of her death. CCTV proves this also her father saw him at the door.
3. Boy B supplied the stick tape used to subdue her.
4. Boy B watches it all and doesn’t help or even ask Boy A to stop.
5. In his interviews Boy B refers to Ana as dressing like a slut. No remorse.
6. Boy B changes his story at least 9 times in his questioning.
7. The interviewing detectives describe him as being smart conniving and confident little ****.
8. The cctv also showed him coming back a good bit later from the scene than he said. So he hung around enjoying it all.

I really can’t see him beating this rap and hopefully the little murderer will have a long painful life in custody.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Boy A apparently told his parents that he was attacked in St Catherines Park by two men . Now I can understand a mother seeing her son with blood on his clothes not immediately jumping to the conclusion that he murdered someone
She probably believed he was attacked and washed his clothes to remove the blood
My question is did his parents look where the wound was that caused his bleeding ? Or maybe he did actually have wounds caused by Ana defending herself ?

He did have injuries.

Dante7

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What disgusts me even further (if that was possible) is the knowledge that we the taxpayers are more than likely paying to protect the identity of this scumbag.


Can be sure they are on free legal aid

Legal aid was granted to both boys at separate hearings. Boy A was granted legal aid during a hearing where he was accompanied by his parents and his grandfather.

riffmongous

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Especially when Boy A was injured and said those injuries were the result of two males attacking him.

Ring the Gardaí or wash the evidence?

Would you really see it as evidence for a hiding though? its not very serious really, the injuries would be enough i'd think myself and I'd just wash my own clothes if I planned to keep them

Dante7

volchitsa wrote: »

He did have injuries, he was seen by his GP who said they could be defensive injuries (I presume this was initially when there was no other scenario being suggested).

He had a limp during his bail hearing.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

One thing that has confused me. It took days to find Ana but she had her phone. There was no mention of phone data. Did she turn it off?

iamwhoiam

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

He did have injuries.

I know he had injuries but wasn’t sure about wounds that bled . He had an injured wrist and limping on his leg .

Ursus Horribilis

I hate what these two scrotes did but we can't just throw the laws of the land aside because this is such an emotive case. They were entitled to be defended at the trial and we should not blame the barrister for doing his job. Nor should we condemn the system for giving them legal aid. This case being brought to a successful conclusion was an example of our system functioning properly.

tayto lover

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

One thing that has confused me. It took days to find Ana but she had her phone. There was no mention of phone data. Did she turn it off?

The found was found near her body and it was smashed in bits.

Ursus Horribilis

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

One thing that has confused me. It took days to find Ana but she had her phone. There was no mention of phone data. Did she turn it off?

I'm pretty sure I read that her phone had been smashed to pieces.

airy fairy

Perhaps this has been asked and discussed already, but as boy A has been charged with aggravated sexual assault along with the murder, is that not grounds to be put on the sex offenders list? Surely then his anonymity cannot be kept?

iamwhoiam

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

One thing that has confused me. It took days to find Ana but she had her phone. There was no mention of phone data. Did she turn it off?

The Garda found her phone on the floor in the room in a few bits . It was smashed as far as I recall

NeonWolf

I don't want to derail the thread but I have been thinking about how Paddy Jackson and his buddies were spared no anonymity and found innocent, yet these two absolute scumbags have their identities protected after taking a girls life in the most callous manner.


Strange old world .

readysetgo

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/teen-enjoyed-outlining-the-harm-he-caused-to-victims-of-serious-assaults-362944.html
there was a case in cork a few years ago where reporting restrictions on a youth were lifted so it isnt without precedence?

also, with the internet how could they enforce for instance a foreign based media company or blog publishing the boys names?

Sunflower 27

volchitsa wrote: »

He did have injuries, he was seen by his GP who said they could be defensive injuries (I presume this was initially when there was no other scenario being suggested).

Wasn't he limping as well in the CCTV footage when he was seen walking back through the park? Looks like Ana may have got a decent kick in during the attack.

The attack by two men story was possibly hurriedly thought up to explain A's injuries, which he may not have expected or predicted.

And reall as if anyone is going to believe a 13- year-old kid managed to scare off two grown men in an attack. Of course it raised suspicion

80sChild

airy fairy wrote: »

Perhaps this has been asked and discussed already, but as boy A has been charged with aggravated sexual assault along with the murder, is that not grounds to be put on the sex offenders list? Surely then his anonymity cannot be kept?

Very good point, hadn't occurred to me nor have I read or heard this angle being discussed.

Sunflower 27

readysetgo wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/teen-enjoyed-outlining-the-harm-he-caused-to-victims-of-serious-assaults-362944.html
there was a case in cork a few years ago where reporting restrictions on a youth were lifted so it isnt without precedence?

also, with the internet how could they enforce for instance a foreign based media company or blog publishing the boys names?

I thought that as well. UK tabloids spring to mind.

mrjoneill

gozunda wrote: »

No didnt read into that tbh. The comment was in addition.



Its possible that boy b had 'gear' as well. He was observed carrying a backpack when he called for Ana. I don't believe theat backpack was found tbh

CCTV showed Boy B carried a rucksack, but I heard no evidence to its contents. As for Boys B presence which is not a crime on its own but he was able to indicate where the body of Ana was found. Forensic evidence indicate that Ana was moved after her murder my pulling her by the ligature around her neck, a ligature Boy B provided. We also know from forensics that Ana was bludgeoned a some stage when standing upright from the blood spatter which conflicts with the weasel Boy B account. Boy B claims he was at the door of room, it was there than Ana was bludgeoned and murdered. Boy B strikes me as far from the innocent accomplice but a conniving thug far beyond his yrs. He believed he would not be identified as calling for Ana. As for the reason to give her a message the Boy A wanted to meet her to tell her he didn't want to go-out with her. This could have been told any day at school they all went to. As for the tape as I understand it is sealing adhesive tape to stop ingress of moisture around insulation. I have no doubt it was planned for to tie up Ana but did not go as planned when Ana resisted. Would not be surprised that Ana was in some way restrained by Boy B or he participated in her assault. I also find curious Boy B statement to his psychologist that it was only when Boy A stood up did he realize his pants was open at the crotch. Boy A wore a track-bottoms and there is no front-openings to such. Only reason Boy B told so many lies is he has so much to coverup. The fact Boy B brought Ana 3km from her home to meet Boy A shows he is indeed very complicit in the conspiracy to kill. It has changed my whole understanding of innocence that 2 13yr old could be so devious without any regret. Boy B believed in several of his statement he could demean Ana, calling her a "slut", "wouldn't be seen dead with her" shows he is indeed a very twisted young-fellow. Long may they stay in prison, to be so twisted so young is a very adverse indicator for the future.

Hannibal_Smith

iamwhoiam wrote: »

My question is did his parents look where the wound was that caused his bleeding ? Or maybe he did actually have wounds caused by Ana defending herself ?

I wondered this too. But apparently she was hit as soon as she walked into where Boy A was. So it doesn't seem like she was able to defend herself?

I read yesterday that when she went missing police were searching the park and came across a man and a boy out for a walk. They stopped to talk to the police. They later discovered it was Boy A and his dad. There he was walking through the park with his dad chatting to police all the while knowing she was dead because of her in that manky place.

The teacher said he was an intelligent boy with not an ounce of trouble from him.

You never think of something like this happening and to think two 13 year old came up with it, carried it out a d calmly tried to get away with it. It's crazy stuff

riffmongous

riffmongous wrote: »

Would you really see it as evidence for a hiding though? its not very serious really, the injuries would be enough i'd think myself and I'd just wash my own clothes if I planned to keep them

Speaking as a parent. If my 13 year old came home injured and covered in blood and told me he was attacked by adult males in the park, I’d call the guards. I wouldn’t be washing any clothes until I’d at least checked if they would be needed.

fryup

readysetgo wrote: »

also, with the internet how could they enforce for instance a foreign based media company or blog publishing the boys names?

exactly, a website that is based overseas?? out of the jurisdiction?

tayto lover

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

I wondered this too. But apparently she was hit as soon as she walked into where Boy A was. So it doesn't seem like she was able to defend herself?

I read yesterday that when she went missing police were searching the park and came across a man and a boy out for a walk. They stopped to talk to the police. They later discovered it was Boy A and his dad. There he was walking through the park with his dad chatting to police all the while knowing she was dead because of her in that manky place.

The teacher said he was an intelligent boy with not an ounce of trouble from him.

You never think of something like this happening and to think two 13 year old came up with it, carried it out a d calmly tried to get away with it. It's crazy stuff

Ana fought like a tiger for her life. She had defensive wounds. Her nails were broken.
Jaysus lads read the court reports. It’s all there.