Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

volchitsa

NeonWolf wrote: »

I don't want to derail the thread but I have been thinking about how Paddy Jackson and his buddies were spared no anonymity and found innocent, yet these two absolute scumbags have their identities protected after taking a girls life in the most callous manner.


Strange old world .

They were 13, you might disagree with them being given anonymity, but on the face of it, it's hardly "strange" for the law to treat 13 year olds differently to adults. If these kids had been 18 their names would have been made public.

And fwiw, Jackson was found not guilty which is not the same as being innocent. That's the point about the benefit of any doubt going to the defendant. Just because something can't be proved beyond any reasonable doubt doesn't mean it didn't happen.

(This is a general comment about people confusing a "not guilty" verdict with the idea that this means no wrongdoing occurred - not at comment about PJ specifically).

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Boy B, also found guilty of murder, was a friend of Boy A. He described to gardaí how Boy A was planning to kill Ana.

In the recordings of interviews played in court, Boy B told gardaí that he was in school when he was approached by Boy A around a month before Ana died.

“I was in school by myself. He came up to me and said ‘hey, wanna kill somebody?’. I said no. He replied with ‘ah, here. Why not’. [I said] because it’s retarded. I then asked him who he was planning to kill and he replied ‘Ana Kriegel’. I replied with ‘in your dreams’. Then he just went. I didn’t think he was being serious.”

The court previously heard that Boy A had asked Boy B to call in for Ana and to arrange to meet in the park. The reason given for this was that Boy A could tell Ana that he was not romantically interested in her.

Boy B was asked by gardaí why Boy A’s bag – which he brought with him when going to the park – contained a mask, gloves, knee pads and shin pads if he was there to deal with a relationship matter.

Boy B responded: “He was planning to kill Ana – I didn’t know.”

That is somewhat vague - is that saying boy B was carrying Boy A's bag or if Boy B knew what was in the bag Boy A brought with him?

From the Irish Times Article linked above

Seconds after Ana left (her father) realised he had forgotten to ask her where she was going. He went to the door where he saw Ana walking towards St Catherine’s Park. The boy, who carried a small backpack walked ahead of her. The two didn’t appear to be talking

What was in boy B's bag? ...

major bill

I always find there is a lot of Naivety from the law when it comes to the internet! Facebook and Twitter reps summoned to court over the distribution of the boys names / pics like how the **** do they expect something like this not to go viral throughout the various social media platforms so punishing a heavy fine is silly and shows how out of touch these people are! I Understand the law that these boys can’t be named but it’s a law that isn’t fit for the current climate when anything can be accessed within a click of a button!

mrjoneill

swarlb wrote: »

As I mentioned in a previous post I have a daughter of similar age and background to Ana. She (I won't say suffered) went through similar issues at school, mostly because of her looks (she is striking and looks older than her age) and mostly from girls, who seemed afraid because she looked 'different', the boys were also 'afraid' but for different reasons. We live in a rural community, and I found that the parents of the children involved were the ones who made the complaints to the school. My daughter is very strong willed and would hit back immediately when provoked... yet it was ME who had to account for her behaviour. The school basically just wanted peace, and tended to side with the majority. There was a change of Principal who did make a difference foe a while, but she moved on (abroad) to greener pastures. On one occasion prior to her departure she apologised to us for the behaviour of the school. We ended up moving her to a different school, and the experience seems so far to have worked.
From my experience I don't think schools intervene enough, especially as regards internet, and the fact that kids these days are taking in so much.
And it saddens me in a way that the reason we chose Russia to adopt was partly because we thought that the child would 'fit in' easier because they were of similar looks to ourselves... how wrong we were.

Bullying is such a big issue not only in schools but workplaces. I have seen incredible evidence reaching the courts of what appeared normal girls did to another girl in school & these from upper-class areas. As for workplace we had in a workplace in the Kerry-Cork border a guy take his own life as the result very recently. Employer is would seem did nothing.

Spanish Eyes

You know what?

In a few weeks this will all be forgotten, and all the supports will be be for the accused/perpetrators and all the chatter will be about them rather than the bereaved.

Terrible to me anyway.

retro:electro

tayto lover wrote: »

Ana fought like a tiger for her life. She had defensive wounds. Her nails were broken.
Jaysus lads read the court reports. It’s all there.

The most harrowing part for me, and I’ll spolier it because it’s upsetting, is how

when she was found she had three fingers under the tape around her neck as if she was trying to force it off, and her false nails were found scattered all over the room such is the force she was attacked with.

I think that description will stay with me always.

mirrorwall14

Please be aware that at least one of the photos being shared on social media platforms is of an entirely innocent boy of the same age

thecretinhop

volchitsa wrote: »

NeonWolf wrote: »

I don't want to derail the thread but I have been thinking about how Paddy Jackson and his buddies were spared no anonymity and found innocent, yet these two absolute scumbags have their identities protected after taking a girls life in the most callous manner.


Strange old world .

They were 13, you might disagree with them being given anonymity, but on the face of it, it's hardly "strange" for the law to treat 13 year olds differently to adults. If these kids had been 18 their names would have been made public.

And fwiw, Jackson was found not guilty which is not the same as being innocent. That's the point about the benefit of any doubt going to the defendant. Just because something can't be proved beyond any reasonable doubt doesn't mean it didn't happen.

(This is a general comment about people confusing a "not guilty" verdict with the idea that this means no wrongdoing occurred - not at comment about PJ specifically).

Jesus wept not innocent..

Gimme A Pound

volchitsa wrote: »

They were 13, you might disagree with them being given anonymity, but on the face of it, it's hardly "strange" for the law to treat 13 year olds differently to adults. If these kids had been 18 their names would have been made public.

And fwiw, Jackson was found not guilty which is not the same as being innocent. That's the point about the benefit of any doubt going to the defendant. Just because something can't be proved beyond any reasonable doubt doesn't mean it didn't happen.

(This is a general comment about people confusing a "not guilty" verdict with the idea that this means no wrongdoing occurred - not at comment about PJ specifically).

Different jurisdiction too.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You know what?

In a few weeks this will all be forgotten, and all the supports will be be for the accused/perpetrators and all the chatter will be about them rather than the bereaved.

What grounds do you have for being so certain of that?

Gimme A Pound

thecretinhop wrote: »

Jesus wept not innocent..

It's not incorrect about "not guilty" though.

Dante7

major bill wrote: »

I always find there is a lot of Naivety from the law when it comes to the internet! Facebook and Twitter reps summoned to court over the distribution of the boys names / pics like how the **** do they expect something like this not to go viral throughout the various social media platforms so punishing a heavy fine is silly and shows how out of touch these people are! I Understand the law that these boys can’t be named but it’s a law that isn’t fit for the current climate when anything can be accessed within a click of a button!

It does appear that the courts here haven't a notion wrt to the European e-commerce directive.

https://twitter.com/tjmcintyre/status/1141437436582645761?s=19

Sunflower 27

The way she was found made me think she may not have died while A was there. Would he have not moved her hands away if she was trying to gasp for air?

I don't think we will ever know the full truth.

fryup

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Please be aware that at least one of the photos being shared on social media platforms is of an entirely innocent boy of the same age

this is where its going to get messy.....boys with same/similar names will be misidentified

Kcpeaches

airy fairy wrote: »

Perhaps this has been asked and discussed already, but as boy A has been charged with aggravated sexual assault along with the murder, is that not grounds to be put on the sex offenders list? Surely then his anonymity cannot be kept?

Such a good question - would love to know how this is handled in the law.

Dante7

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Please be aware that at least one of the photos being shared on social media platforms is of an entirely innocent boy of the same age

There has been a photo and name shared which is incorrect. A very common Irish surname and a simple Google shows that he was mentioned in a post by his school in December 2018, several months after the murder, which more or less shows it wasn't him.

gozunda

tuxy wrote: »

He claimed he had been started on by two adults and was in a fight so it's possible his mother believed him.

His bag including most of its contents had Ana's blood on them when tested. It would seem no serious effort was made to remove DNA.

The parents were aware of the blood on his clothes as he was wearing them when he returned from the park

Whether they were washed accidentally or deliberately is open to interpretation imo

According to the Gardai - boy A's backback was found in a cupboard. I reckon he did not show this to his parents....

dickangel

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

The way she was found made me think she may not have died while A was there. Would he have not moved her hands away if she was trying to gasp for air?

I don't think we will ever know the full truth.

What's to be gained from speculating like that? Needlessly morbid.

volchitsa

thecretinhop wrote: »

Jesus wept not innocent..

Just because you don't understand the difference doesn't make you right.

If boy B had kept his mouth shut, like boy A did, B would likely have got away with a much lesser charge, and maybe got off completely. Would that have made him innocent?

SirGerryAdams

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Please be aware that at least one of the photos being shared on social media platforms is of an entirely innocent boy of the same age

which one?

volchitsa

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Speaking as a parent. If my 13 year old came home injured and covered in blood and told me he was attacked by adult males in the park, I’d call the guards. I wouldn’t be washing any clothes until I’d at least checked if they would be needed.

Probably a lot of people would, but I don't think we can safely assume the mother thought he was guilty of anything just because she didn't.

Why would they have told the ranger about it if he wanted to keep his head down? They gave the shoes to the Garda who wanted them for DNA testing to find the alleged attacker, she could have just said she threw them out.

He wasn't seriously injured so she might have just thought there was no point.
Friends of ours had their house burgled and some very expensive stuff stolen, they fully expected the PSNI to look for fingerprints but they didn't make the slightest effort to do so. Came round and had a cup of tea, was all. This was some years back maybe it's different now, but still. I expect if her son came in claiming to have been jumped by someone older she'd not have bothered keeping the evidence either, going by her earlier experience.

Flippyfloppy

Dante7 wrote: »

There has been a photo and name shared which is incorrect. A very common Irish surname and a simple Google shows that he was mentioned in a post by his school in December 2018, several months after the murder, which more or less shows it wasn't him.

Deleted

mirrorwall14

Dante7 wrote: »

There has been a photo and name shared which is incorrect. A very common Irish surname and a simple Google shows that he was mentioned in a post by his school in December 2018, several months after the murder, which more or less shows it wasn't him.

Yup common name and it’s definitely not him. Neither boy was in school this year

Gimme A Pound

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Please be aware that at least one of the photos being shared on social media platforms is of an entirely innocent boy of the same age

Dammit, knew that would happen. Those who join a mob for the ride don't give a **** about minor details like correct identity.

SirGerryAdams

Dante7 wrote: »

There has been a photo and name shared which is incorrect. A very common Irish surname and a simple Google shows that he was mentioned in a post by his school in December 2018, several months after the murder, which more or less shows it wasn't him.

They have the same name but that's it....as you said it's a common name.

The picture going around are correct.

mrjoneill

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Bad enough to have murdered her but to add insult they lied through their teeth and their parents went along with it.

Adding lies upon lies. Nobody was fooled.

Awful to have put the victims parents and family through such a terrible trial

Shame on the murderers and also the parents of these scum

The more I looked at the evidence the more I see Boy B to be a scheming twisted weasel. He knew full-well Ana was brought to the derelict house only to seriously assault her or kill her. There was no other reason he would have brought her 3km from her home. Yes Boys B internet searches we were not given & the loss of 2 phones does not make sense but scheming by him. Reason he has repeatedly lied is to cover up his own active participation. None of these vermin have apologized for what they did but play the part of 2 innocent little school-kids somehow caught up on an event not of their doing. I do hope the judge in handing down sentencing will take notice of the scheming facts & the total lack of remorse. These young scumbags believe the people of Ireland should bending to their twisted innocence.

NIMAN

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Dammit, knew that would happen. Those who join a mob for the ride don't give a **** about minor details like correct identity.

This is how the Internet is dangerous in the hands of idiots.

Only thing is, if a lad is named and is out and about walking the streets, going to school etc, then it's not him. Think that much would be obvious


But that doesn't make it any easier if you are innocent and brain dead folk on the Internet are naming you as a murderer.

Purple Mountain

Wasn't Robert Houlihan's killer given a new identity and moved to the UK when he was released?
Same as James Bolger's killers.
I wonder could this be a possibility for these 2 animals when they leave detention.

weldoninhio

omega man wrote: »

This. They may also have siblings who’d be possibly targeted also.

If the siblings or family are targeted, they can call the Gardai. Same as anyone else who’s targeted by a bully/troublemaker. Same rules for everyone.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

tayto lover wrote: »

The found was found near her body and it was smashed in bits.

I know but it was on until she got there I would assume.

Spanish Eyes

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Different jurisdiction too.

What grounds do you have for being so certain of that?

The victims are forgotten immediately after their victim impact statements. The judge rules the sentence.

Nothing more they can do really.