Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

Fitz* · 18-06-2019 09:31PM

TAA should stay at RB - he could become the best in the world if he keeps developing at the rate he is.

I'd rather him be a 10/10 RB than a 7.5/10 CM.

charolais0153 · 18-06-2019 09:35PM

FitzShane wrote: »

TAA should stay at RB - he could become the best in the world if he keeps developing at the rate he is.

I'd rather him be a 10/10 RB than a 7.5/10 CM.

Don’t want to be a downer but with these young players they could be at their peak now, bellerin looked like he was going to be a proper player but has regressed

Fitz* · 18-06-2019 09:37PM

charolais0153 wrote: »

Don’t want to be a downer but with these young players they could be at their peak now, bellerin looked like he was going to be a proper player but has regressed

Oh yes, agree. There are multiple differentials that can affect how players develop - change of management, transfer, injuries, workrate, mentality & determination to actually improve and not be happy at your current level. If any of those creep into Trent's game, then he might not be become the best RB around.

Mentality & determination is probably the biggest factor and what sets the best apart from the rest.

john why · 18-06-2019 09:55PM

When is the feedback thread starting?

Riesen_Meal · 18-06-2019 09:55PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Odegaard looks like he will be one of the players offloaded to bring in money.

Another Next Messi that hasn't lived up to the hype of being the Next Messi.

He's a Liverpool fan isn't he?

Seems to be an improving player, going by this TifoFootball video I saw about him the other day :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKKe4zNVop4

Agent Coulson · 18-06-2019 11:03PM

Fieldog wrote: »

He's a Liverpool fan isn't he?

I think he is a bit of a Robbie Keane in that sense.

Potential Underachiever · 18-06-2019 11:29PM

Fieldog wrote: »

He's a Liverpool fan isn't he?

Seems to be an improving player, going by this TifoFootball video I saw about him the other day :

Best part of the video is discovering that the name of the Vitesse coach is Slutsky!!

Agent Coulson · 18-06-2019 11:38PM

Lucas won player of the season for the second time at Lazio the boy done good for himself.

The vote was highjacked by Liverpool fans

Agent Coulson · 19-06-2019 12:02AM

Bobby & Ali both starting again for Brazil.

gimli2112 · 19-06-2019 07:50AM

The main reason TAA is promoted as midfielder is because the year before last his defending was regularly atrocious but it was clear there's an exceptional footballer there. You didn't want him anywhere near the defence at times. He's shown considerable improvement in this space and I'm a lot calmer as a result.

I do feel he could do a job in midfield and would probably be quite creative in comparison to what we have. I saw an article about the midfield the other day saying it's not creative by design but I didn't read it.

gimli2112 · 19-06-2019 07:51AM

john why wrote: »

When is the feedback thread starting?

I'm hoping you post something controversial so I can respond why john why?

8-10 · 19-06-2019 08:04AM

gimli2112 wrote: »

The main reason TAA is promoted as midfielder is because the year before last his defending was regularly atrocious but it was clear there's an exceptional footballer there. You didn't want him anywhere near the defence at times.

Think that's very harsh on him personally.

gimli2112 · 19-06-2019 08:17AM

he was only 18-19 but was certainly a weakness, in my opinion and was being targeted as a result, one of my overriding memories of that year was his inability to defend slow high looping balls over his head

The Mig · 19-06-2019 08:32AM

gimli2112 wrote: »

he was only 18-19 but was certainly a weakness, in my opinion and was being targeted as a result, one of my overriding memories of that year was his inability to defend slow high looping balls over his head

I'm 30 and I struggle with them myself

gimli2112 · 19-06-2019 08:39AM

The Mig wrote: »

I'm 30 and I struggle with them myself

and I'm glad you're not our right back too

I didn't notice it as much this year.

Fitz* · 19-06-2019 09:35AM

To be fair, whoever played RB in 2017-2018 had problems with them high balls in behind them - both TAA & Gomez got caught out a few times. Remember Gomez against Arsenal - it was a clear ploy by a lot of teams.

TAA came through the academy at CM so it's where this is all stemming from but to be fair, the way football is being played now the full backs and centre backs now see an awful lot of the ball, maybe even the most of any players in any possession based team. The biggest selling point that Klopp gave Milner when he played him at LB was that he would be on the ball, in the middle third of the pitch an awful lot of the time. Almost playing as a 'side-midfielder'. TAA is currently playing this role now and usually his starting position is on the half way line and is involved in the build up of every second attack. Other managers are also doing the same a lot, not just Klopp. Pep had Fernandinho play at RB for a stint at Man City, also had Delph play at LB for a long period of time, and his current position - the same with Zinchenko who was converted from an attacking midfielder. Tite has done the same with Fabinho with the Brazil team. It is almost a way of 'cheating' and getting an extra midfielder into the team. There are probably more examples out there currently, but it's too early for me still!

But I won't say the same about Young & Valencia :pac:

yourdeadwright · 19-06-2019 09:38AM

gimli2112 wrote: »

he was only 18-19 but was certainly a weakness, in my opinion and was being targeted as a result, one of my overriding memories of that year was his inability to defend slow high looping balls over his head

I have to say I was one who was worried about him at the start of this season because of the defensive part of his game,
I remember him getting done a few times in our first game at home to Westham and picking up a yellow,

But he proved me wrong and improved that part of his game ,

He still can improve his defending but at least now he has shown he can take leaps of development In that side of the game .

He seems to still struggle with big strong runners , Michail Antonio and the Brighton lad Locadia instantly come to mind as guys who he struggled against and both are the same big strong runners , but thankfully age will help with that as he fills out himself and becomes stronger,

On the ball he reminds me of Beckham some of his passes and crossing are just ridicules and he's only 21,

He has a chance to become the best right back in world football ,

shamrock55 · 19-06-2019 10:36AM

For me trent isn't a very good actual defender, great going forward no doubt, he is very well suited to the roll of attacking full back though, and I can't see him being remodeling as an out and out midfielder, work a little more on defending and positioning which is his real weak point, and that right back spots his for as long as he wants

garra · 19-06-2019 10:49AM

TAA's skillset entirely suits the role of attacking full-back in the Klopp sense. He has pace, energy, delivery etc. He can defend adequately and has improved.

The weakness in TAA's game comes when he is in the thick of the action and he mis-reads a ball over his head or mis-reads (or ignores) movement in behind him. He plays perfectly well when everything is in front of him. This is the main reason I would not want him in midfield, his mentality and ability is entirely suited to a full back position.

atilladehun · 19-06-2019 11:20AM

Ive started listening to the bbc podcast don't tell me the score. Episode 5 is with Dr Sherrylle Calder who has trained a huge amount of top rugby and cricket teams over the last two decades in visualisation.

She spoke about the various abilities of players in similar positions, like goal keepers for example. One can have lots of athletic talent, instinctive reactions and poisitions. Another can be way less talented but do as well cause they have to think every part of the game through.

Trent popped into my head when she was saying this. He is player A but is being forced to be player B. It's only his 3rd year being a RB. He has to think about the defending a lot, but has talent to scramble back into position rapidly.

Its a bit like the old Ajax model of learning more than just your preferred position to become a better player.

Morzadec · 19-06-2019 11:45AM

FitzShane wrote: »

To be fair, whoever played RB in 2017-2018 had problems with them high balls in behind them - both TAA & Gomez got caught out a few times. Remember Gomez against Arsenal - it was a clear ploy by a lot of teams.

TAA came through the academy at CM so it's where this is all stemming from but to be fair, the way football is being played now the full backs and centre backs now see an awful lot of the ball, maybe even the most of any players in any possession based team. The biggest selling point that Klopp gave Milner when he played him at LB was that he would be on the ball, in the middle third of the pitch an awful lot of the time. Almost playing as a 'side-midfielder'. TAA is currently playing this role now and usually his starting position is on the half way line and is involved in the build up of every second attack. Other managers are also doing the same a lot, not just Klopp. Pep had Fernandinho play at RB for a stint at Man City, also had Delph play at LB for a long period of time, and his current position - the same with Zinchenko who was converted from an attacking midfielder. Tite has done the same with Fabinho with the Brazil team. It is almost a way of 'cheating' and getting an extra midfielder into the team. There are probably more examples out there currently, but it's too early for me still!

But I won't say the same about Young & Valencia :pac:

It's a good point, full-back in this Klopp team is really far removed from traditional full-back play.

Having Fabinho in now gives greater freedom to the full-backs - when you play with wing-backs (which we essentially do now) you need a dedicated and strong DM.

I think we're all in agreement that TAA is thriving at RB and should stay there. It's a great point made here that he arguably gets to use his superb ball playing technique (raking passes, composure on the ball to pass move, pinpoint crosses etc...) more at full-back than he would at centre-mid under Klopp's system.

So many football debates are stymied through people still looking through old lenses as to expectations of certain positions. Centre-mid is still seen as a glamour position, a creative and influential position, and full-back as the least important where your principal job is to stop the opponent's winger. That perception is changing slowly but surely. In this Liverpool team it's the central midfield which is more so the hard-working, less headline grabbing function of the team.

Trent and Robbo got a combine 23 assists in the league last season.

Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner, Fabinho and Keita (our most regular starting CMs) got a combined 10 assists.

There's no doubt to me where Trent's creativity and superb technique is currently best served.

amber69 · 19-06-2019 11:47AM

The Mig wrote: »

I'm 30 and I struggle with them myself

He's taking about footballs

BullBlackNova · 19-06-2019 11:52AM

Morzadec wrote: »

It's a good point, full-back in this Klopp team is really far removed from traditional full-back play.

Having Fabinho in now gives greater freedom to the full-backs - when you play with wing-backs (which we essentially do now) you need a dedicated and strong DM.

I think we're all in agreement that TAA is thriving at RB and should stay there. It's a great point made here that he arguably gets to use his superb ball playing technique (raking passes, composure on the ball to pass move, pinpoint crosses etc...) more at full-back than he would at centre-mid under Klopp's system.

So many football debates are stymied through people still looking through old lenses as to expectations of certain positions. Centre-mid is still seen as a glamour position, a creative and influential position, and full-back as the least important where your principal job is to stop the opponent's winger. That perception is changing slowly but surely. In this Liverpool team it's the central midfield which is more so the hard-working, less headline grabbing function of the team.

Trent and Robbo got a combine 23 assists in the league last season.

Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner, Fabinho and Keita (our most regular starting CMs) got a combined 10 assists.

There's no doubt to me where Trent's creativity and superb technique is currently served.

This is a good point - a lot of what we think about modern football is coloured by the views of pundits, etc who might look at the game through an older lense. That's not to say their points are entirely wrong but it's also not to say that they are right on everything either.

A case in point is the nonsense idea that captains still need to be all shouting aggressors like Keane, Vieira, Sounness, etc and very few (if any) top level captains fit that bill anymore.

But it's also the case in playing styles - full-backs were the least admired on the pitch for a long time. Gameplay was dependent on centre mids, wingers and strikers. Your full backs, essentially, just had to not **** it up and they'd be fine.

That's not the case anymore. For us (and plenty of other teams), the full backs are an essential component of how we attack. It dictates our movement and play, it stretches the opposition - just look at how much more blunt we are when it is just one of Robertson or TAA on the pitch; the opposition can double up on them and block our routes to goal. It's an issue that needs to be resolved by getting full-back cover that can match the playing style IMO.

Defending is, of course, part of their game but it isn't the most important bit as, theoretically, the defensive duties should be handled by the CBs and the DM.

But it has been this way for a while - Dani Alves was an essential cog at the Barca side that included Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, etc because he used to stretch the play, deliver the cross-field passes, etc.

While Jamie Carragher might joke that "Nobody wants to grow up to be a Gary Neville", the fact is that the full-back role has entirely changed from what it was. The fact that some pundits still talk about it as though the right-back should stick to the box to defend shows that they haven't kept up with the changes in the game and does colour how fans see it.

Sofa Spud · 19-06-2019 11:54AM

Got to say, I'm relaxed about the defensive side of Trent - I think we still have visions of that Utd game two seasons ago and forget games like the whole 'Sane in his pocket' as an aberration. Absolutely he offers more in attack, but that's the point - we have Matip/Gomez/Lovren to support him when needed and we had more clean sheets and conceded less goals than any other team this season - it's as simple as that!
And then add the record assists to that at the other end. The lad's a legend and he's a class act - he's already a legend for the Barca game and then the whole 'I'm just a lad from Liverpool whose dream just came true' is the icing on the cake. I don't see him moving into mid-field, he can make the RB role his for posterity - he can surpass Phil Neal, Steve Nicol etc with at least 10 solid years ahead of him. All Hail TAA!!!

OwaynOTT · 19-06-2019 01:12PM

BullBlackNova wrote: »

This is a good point - a lot of what we think about modern football is coloured by the views of pundits, etc who might look at the game through an older lense. That's not to say their points are entirely wrong but it's also not to say that they are right on everything either.

A case in point is the nonsense idea that captains still need to be all shouting aggressors like Keane, Vieira, Sounness, etc and very few (if any) top level captains fit that bill anymore.

But it's also the case in playing styles - full-backs were the least admired on the pitch for a long time. Gameplay was dependent on centre mids, wingers and strikers. Your full backs, essentially, just had to not **** it up and they'd be fine.

That's not the case anymore. For us (and plenty of other teams), the full backs are an essential component of how we attack. It dictates our movement and play, it stretches the opposition - just look at how much more blunt we are when it is just one of Robertson or TAA on the pitch; the opposition can double up on them and block our routes to goal. It's an issue that needs to be resolved by getting full-back cover that can match the playing style IMO.

Defending is, of course, part of their game but it isn't the most important bit as, theoretically, the defensive duties should be handled by the CBs and the DM.

But it has been this way for a while - Dani Alves was an essential cog at the Barca side that included Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, etc because he used to stretch the play, deliver the cross-field passes, etc.

While Jamie Carragher might joke that "Nobody wants to grow up to be a Gary Neville", the fact is that the full-back role has entirely changed from what it was. The fact that some pundits still talk about it as though the right-back should stick to the box to defend shows that they haven't kept up with the changes in the game and does colour how fans see it.

They still don't want to grow up to be a Gary Neville but they would want to be a Robertson or Trent.

OwaynOTT · 19-06-2019 01:13PM

OwaynOTT wrote: »

The real big six

Can't believe it's only been two weeks!

rob316 · 19-06-2019 01:41PM

Can't understand people wanting TAA playing in midfield. We have the two best full backs around, the envy of most sides and you want to put one in midfield. As long as Trent remains competent at defending who cares, his attacking prowess has transformed this team.
We put in our worst run in the league this season when he was injured, it's not a coincidence.

5starpool · 19-06-2019 01:52PM

I can't wait for loads of people to quote that post with all those teeny tiny pictures.

8-10 · 19-06-2019 01:52PM

Rafa Camacho sounds like he's off, Schalke or Sporting

ballyargus · 19-06-2019 01:59PM

OwaynOTT wrote:

They still don't want to grow up to be a Gary Neville but they would want to be a Robertson or Trent.

Marauding full backs have always existed. Cafu and Roberto Carlos are prime examples from Neville's era

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

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