Garda Apology

17-06-2019 08:34PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Listen to it again. Everyone missed that key point.
She didn’t want her family knowing especially her father.
She sat with him during a radio report about it and he asked her do you okie that woman? And she said no.

She could never bring that baby home. Never. She had no options and no support. And she was forced to give it up anyways

So, her family know now? I think that she needs step away from the media. We all made mistakes back in the day. We learned from them and moved on.
She may have been humiliated at work, but she’s doing herself no favours demanding meetings with people who had nothing to do with her situation.

Beechwoodspark · 17-06-2019 08:36PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s what happened.
I listened to it twice and her interview this morning. Which is three times more than most other people in this thread reading the comments.

Ok. I’ll bite.

She got pregnant and after turning down the offer of marriage from the father, She was pressured into putting her baby up for adoption by her employers. After a lot of pressure she did give the baby up for adoption and she stayed on in the job for over a decade after it.

That’s the most simplistic version I could give if a gun was put to my head. Your version is over simplistic if you don’t mind me saying.

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 08:44PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ok. I’ll bite.

She got pregnant and after turning down the offer of marriage from the father, She was pressured into putting her baby up for adoption by her employers. After a lot of pressure she did give the baby up for adoption and she stayed on in the job for over a decade after it.

That’s the most simplistic version I could give if a gun was put to my head. Your version is over simplistic if you don’t mind me saying.

That’s almost what happened. You forgot the part about her being under pressure in the job and actively harrassed and sexually assaulted regularly.
Least you listened to it. My point was all the loudmouths against her here admitted they didn’t even listen.

Far far more to this story than we’ve heard id say. This one might grow legs.

Beechwoodspark · 17-06-2019 08:45PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That’s almost what happened. You forgot the part about her being under pressure in the job and actively harrassed and sexually assaulted regularly.
Least you listened to it. My point was all the loudmouths against her here admitted they didn’t even listen.

Far far more to this story than we’ve heard id say. This one might grow legs.

I said if I was to SIMPLIFY the story. You left out loads in your 2 sentence summary a few posts back.

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 08:48PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I said if I was to SIMPLIFY the story. You left out loads in your 2 sentence summary a few posts back.

No, you just didn’t read it right and I naturally assumed you had heard the whole story and wouldnt comment or post selectively

Beechwoodspark · 17-06-2019 08:49PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

No, you just didn’t read it right and I naturally assumed you had heard the whole story and wouldnt comment or post selectively

No, I said your version was overly simplistic. Which it is, imho. My version is as simplistic as i can make it if I was forced.

Spanish Eyes · 17-06-2019 08:54PM

Ah sure the woman was living with a man outside marriage, got pregnant, kept her child, and some on radio shows (reflection of our thinking ha ha) think she was smelling of drink or something for living over a pub.

Honestly. This country has moved on in many ways, but there is still a valley of the squinting windows remnant left.

Edit, was referring to the teacher in New Ross who was sacked for accuracy purposes.

Jupiter Mulligan · 17-06-2019 08:59PM

bubblypop wrote: »

And would you mind pointing out in the Garda 'rules' where it states that unmarried recruits are not allowed to have premarital sex, or women are not allowed to be single mothers?

The charge brought against the ban-garda in 1985 was one of bringing discredit to the force and Garda Moynihan accepted the charge.

So she appears to have known that what she did was contrary to the 'rules' that applied at the time.

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 08:59PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

No, I said your version was overly simplistic. Which it is, imho. My version is as simplistic as i can make it if I was forced.

It’s not simple though.
She was treated appallingly. Put under immense pressure.
Forced to give up her child.
Ensured years of scrutiny within the GSA afterwards.
Told if it happens again she would be fired.
Never felt able to tell her father it was her.
And forced to wait decades before she met her son again that was taken from her under duress and illegally

It is that simple.

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 09:08PM

*just to add, when she went for all the documents relating to her her case they were redacted to a point of uselessness

But she’s in the wrong. Of course.they obviously have nothing to hide.

KaneToad · 17-06-2019 09:09PM

Edgware wrote: »

Of course she would have needed support from within her job for that to happen but obviously someone in authority wasnt prepared to give it and wanted to discipline her instead. She was in a very lonely position and had little options.

She wasn't disciplined though. She was cautioned. The male guard was disciplined and fined. The interrogation of both of them was outrageous.

She definitely needed support. It seems that the father of the child was offering it but it wasn't accepted.(Not suggesting that she necessarily should have taken the option he offered). It was a great pity that there was no other apparent support for her.

Spanish Eyes · 17-06-2019 09:11PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s not simple though.
She was treated appallingly. Put under immense pressure.
Forced to give up her child.
Ensured years of scrutiny within the GSA afterwards.
Told if it happens again she would be fired.
Never felt able to tell her father it was her.
And forced to wait decades before she met her son again that was taken from her under duress and illegally

It is that simple.

No consolation to her, but she was certainly not alone in the treatment of her circumstances by many an employer back in the day.

There is still a ripple of an influence left. Think IONA, which is probably a front for Opus Dei.

But most people don't care anymore now thankfully.

boardise · 17-06-2019 09:11PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Are you seriously comparing selling porn to a having a child?

What a stupid comment -. Of course he's not . It's an analogy for heaven's sake.

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 09:14PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

No consolation to her, but she was certainly not alone in the treatment of her circumstances by many an employer back in the day.

There is still a ripple of an influence left. Think IONA, which is probably a front for Opus Dei.

But most people don't care anymore now thankfully.

Iona are like the fleas, no, TICKS in the blanket of our society.

I for one am wondering why we haven’t shaken them off yet. Once and for all.

Then you read the comments here..

Nobelium · 17-06-2019 09:24PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The likes of Opus Dei were (maybe still are) endemic in the Garda force back in the day. Same for Public Sector managers and many other places of influence.

Emily O'Reilly wrote a book about it "The Masterminds of the Right". Read it.

I think Dan Brown and the Albino monk was involved as well.

boardise · 17-06-2019 09:25PM

Nobelium wrote: »

Why wait till exactly now in 2019 ? It not as if she could not have come out with this anytime in at least the last 10 years.

I would think she has seen the atmosphere that exists now after the mother and baby homes issue became prominent ,the cervical smear cases came to light and that the Garda organisation has been beset by other damaging disclosures.
She now sees that the state tends to be under pressure to offer the full pararphernalia of apologies and compensation toa whole plethora of categories of 'victim' so she may feel inclined to say ...'metoo'.

Spanish Eyes · 17-06-2019 09:27PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Iona are like the fleas, no, TICKS in the blanket of our society.

I for one am wondering why we haven’t shaken them off yet. Once and for all.

Then you read the comments here..

I hesitate to say "they haven't gone away you know" for fear of referencing something else.

But they haven't gone away at all. They are still there biting at the heels of anything they can object to religion or morality wise. Surely if you are happy and content in your world, you do not need to preach to anyone anymore. But no. They still do and still will. Command and control.

There is a power behind them I think. But is getting nowhere yet.

Mrsmum · 17-06-2019 09:28PM

She was very strong to stand up to everyone over marrying your man. I'd say that took some strength because the idea of a girl pregnant and fussy would have absolutely outraged people back then. I remember a few people I knew who fell pregnant and the first question a friend would ask was will he stand by you. And the relief if he would. The idea that you would reject his offer to make of you a 'respectable ' woman was a shocking notion back then. And also there was the child's birthright to consider. To choose to make a child illegitimate back then was not a position many people would have respected. The vast, vast majority of single mothers were single not by choice but because he fecked off. So if she had the strength to do that, it seems logical to me that she bowed to the adoption pressure because she herself also felt it was for the best in the circumstances. But you can know it's for the best or your only workable option and at the same time not be able to cope with it. And clearly she never did.

Lackadaisical · 17-06-2019 09:35PM

I remember as about a 12 year old meeting a woman and her daughter who were both former Magdalene laundry inmates. They were very damaged by the whole experience and I could recognise that even then.

I subsequently heard the whole story in my late teens and it was pretty much the same horrors that you'd have heard in the media and worse. It's unbelievable what went on in this country in the name of enforcing social conformity on people. What the woman described to me was akin to a soviet Gulag only with nuns and Ireland.

I'd heard plenty of institutional horrors at that stage in the media, but it was very different hearing it first hand. Absolutely disgraceful that it was ever allowed to happen.

I was never religious at all but I was baptised Catholic. That experience prompted me to formally defect as I literally wanted nothing to do with them ever again after hearing that account. I literally felt almost 'dirty' being in anyway associated with the organisation.

Spanish Eyes · 17-06-2019 09:43PM

I am thinking right now of the many women who did give their babies for adoption on command. They were bullied into it for the sake of the community and the family in many instances. Those women must be devastated even now.

The father though.... never had a problem afais. No such epithet as an Unmarried Father ever existed did it? Even to this day too.

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 09:44PM

boardise wrote: »

I would think she has seen the atmosphere that exists now after the mother and baby homes issue became prominent ,the cervical smear cases came to light and that the Garda organisation has been beset by other damaging disclosures.
She now sees that the state tends to be under pressure to offer the full pararphernalia of apologies and compensation toa whole plethora of categories of 'victim' so she may feel inclined to say ...'metoo'.

The thousands of victims of rape and abuse by the clergy are still waiting on their day. What, over ten years later?
Maybe She just wants awareness raised.
Be as cynical as you like. That’s on you.

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 09:47PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I hesitate to say "they haven't gone away you know" for fear of referencing something else.

But they haven't gone away at all. They are still there biting at the heels of anything they can object to religion or morality wise. Surely if you are happy and content in your world, you do not need to preach to anyone anymore. But no. They still do and still will. Command and control.

There is a power behind them I think. But is getting nowhere yet.

Undoubtedly. But their day is long done.
Ireland won’t fall for any of that again. Particularly and especially from a religious or right wing angle.

I don’t think so anyways.
Boards would call lie to that but most of the sh!t stirring posts here are from bots and trolls as far as I can see. It will never stick.

One eyed Jack · 17-06-2019 09:54PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

The thousands of victims of rape and abuse by the clergy are still waiting on their day. What, over ten years later?
Maybe She just wants awareness raised.
Be as cynical as you like. That’s on you.

Not once has she been critical of the Catholic Church though. Not, once.

Yet you keep banging on about it like it’s something else entirely you’re trying to raise awareness of. By all of her accounts she has nothing but praise for the members of the Catholic Church who actually helped her, as opposed to the narrative you’ve been attempting to portray throughout this thread. She blames the system of the AGS as it was at the time (and in truth AGS were every bit as influential and powerful in society as priests, nuns and politicians).

I’m not entirely sucked in by the narrative she’s presenting now some 35 years later, but I can also understand how being 22 at the time and given her life up to that point, how she would have felt she was being treated unfairly and still to this day believes she was treated unfairly. But not once does she make any mention of the Catholic Church being responsible. She lays the blame for the way she was treated entirely on AGS.

Spanish Eyes · 17-06-2019 09:57PM

Unmarried Fathers are getting free houses and loadsa money.

Sorry, just trying to bring a bit of humorous balance into this.

Never heard that at all, did you?

17-06-2019 10:13PM

The GRA can FOAD for their comment this evening announced on RTE news.

Such as pathetic politically motivated comment- FOAD GRA!...you piece of Sh1te!

Effects · 17-06-2019 10:19PM

boardise wrote: »

She now sees that the state tends to be under pressure to offer the full pararphernalia of apologies and compensation toa whole plethora of categories of 'victim' so she may feel inclined to say ...'metoo'.

That makes you sound like an arśehole.

hawkelady · 17-06-2019 10:20PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The GRA can FOAD for their comment this evening announced on RTE news.

Such as pathetic politically motivated comment- FOAD GRA!...you piece of Sh1te!

Do you care to let us know what they said?

17-06-2019 10:22PM

hawkelady wrote: »

Do you care to let us know what they said?

Watch the RTE news and make your own mind up- this website doesn't allow me to post otherwise.

tayto lover · 17-06-2019 10:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Watch the RTE news and make your own mind up- this website doesn't allow me to post otherwise.

Nothing on RTÉ website.
Can you not tell us in your own words?

Spanish Eyes · 17-06-2019 10:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The GRA can FOAD for their comment this evening announced on RTE news.

Such as pathetic politically motivated comment- FOAD GRA!...you piece of Sh1te!

Could you translate FOAD thanks, although I am sure it is intuitive for those who know these things.

Anyway, the sad thing is, it was not just the Gardai who succeeded in controlling women back in the day, it was everywhere. What a total isolationist Catholic run country with the squinting windows it was.

Still here though, there are many organisations with willing participants who still want to stifle women.

Garda Apology

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