Garda Apology

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 04:20PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Acknowledge what? That that's the way things were back then? We can't do anything about it now. If things were still like that then we could take affirmative action but they are not. We, the people of Ireland, realised it was wrong and stood up and changed things for the better.
The people who made the decisions in this case are dead or very old. Getting an apology from the organisation is meaningless at this point imo.

It’s anything but meaningless.
If your child gets hit at school by a teacher, you don’t want it acknowledged and dealt with and all the other parents to know?

Your child got hit last week so maybe it’s not important cos it’s this week

eagle eye · 17-06-2019 04:22PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote:

Your child got hit last week so maybe itâ€™s not important cos itâ€™s this week
Itâ€™s anything but meaningless. If your child gets hit at school by a teacher, you donâ€™t want it acknowledged and dealt with and all the other parents to know?

That's a ridiculous comparison. Part of my post addresses the issue of changing things if they have not changed already.

17-06-2019 04:23PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s anything but meaningless.
If your child gets hit at school by a teacher, you don’t want it acknowledged and dealt with and all the other parents to know?

Your child got hit last week so maybe it’s not important cos it’s this week

policy, strategies and checks are put into place to ensure your child wont be hit this week, in this parable

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 04:24PM

eagle eye wrote: »

That's a ridiculous comparison. Part of my post addresses the issue of changing things if they have not changed already.

Your own post earlier conflicts with your current post.

Mine is that we have to address what went wrong and what was done wrong in order to stop it happennihg again.
It’s still happening. Look at the Garda whistleblower debacle.

It’s still happening and being brushed under the carpet. And you support that?

17-06-2019 04:27PM

1641 wrote: »

Incidentally, many companies still have "bringing the organization into disrepute" in the disciplinary code, eg, comments on social media by an employee which a company deems damaging to its reputation.

So do AGS, but nowhere is it defined what disrepute is. Just the judgement of the superior.

eagle eye · 17-06-2019 04:27PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote:

Your own post earlier conflicts with your current post.

You are crazy imo. Move on to somebody else with your nonsense.

martingriff · 17-06-2019 04:28PM

Nobelium wrote: »

Never let the facts get in the way of gender politics. He asked her to marry him:rolleyes:. He also faced a severe disciplinary hearing.

A £90 fine ya severe:(

SirGerryAdams · 17-06-2019 04:29PM

Damn there's a lot of martyrs/compo chasers in the media lately.

17-06-2019 04:32PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Your own post earlier conflicts with your current post.

Mine is that we have to address what went wrong and what was done wrong in order to stop it happennihg again.
It’s still happening. Look at the Garda whistleblower debacle.

It’s still happening and being brushed under the carpet. And you support that?

arah cmon would you stop and be serious

your next post will be water charges the way youre jumping around

17-06-2019 04:39PM

bubblypop wrote: »

So do AGS, but nowhere is it defined what disrepute is. Just the judgement of the superior.

But that is always going to be the case with a disciplinary clause of "bringing the organisation into disrepute" in any company.

For example, I imagine a guard advertising invites to a swingers party would face a charge along these lines - although it is not against the law and not an itemised offence. But maybe in 30 years people will look back and call that ridiculous. Norms change.

Incidentally I was around and working at the time so I have some idea about what was acceptable. I was threatened with dismissal myself for just a public declaration in favour of the "liberal agenda". I was well aware of women who lost their jobs because of extra-marital pregnancy.

Ipso · 17-06-2019 04:45PM

1641 wrote: »

I am not defending what happened to her and I doubt that there was a specific offence on premarital sex. But there would be a generic offence of "bringing the organisation into disrepute". Obviously getting pregnant outside of marriage would not qualify as such nowadays. But in the early 80s it would have - or arguably so. Such were the public (hypocritical) norms of the time. I was around at the time and unfortunately it was not that unusual for people to lose their jobs for similar "offences".

Incidentally, many companies still have "bringing the organization into disrepute" in the disciplinary code, eg, comments on social media by an employee which a company deems damaging to its reputation.

Can't have that now, can we.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Babies_case

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 04:45PM

eagle eye wrote: »

You are crazy imo. Move on to somebody else with your nonsense.

That’s unnecessary. You clearly can’t answer my point.

jmayo · 17-06-2019 04:51PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

To be fair sexual morality would have been expected in the Gardat the time and obviously scruples of the highest order in terms of who the members were and what they stood for

The fact that cancelling speeding fines and similar (the corruption you're referring to) was exposed and dealt with and officers exposing it and related issues vilified is irrelevant to this debate because at the time and up to today that was an acceptable norm in society (albeit the vilification wasn't exposed)
Having babies outside of wedlock or divorce was still frowned upon by the majority even if methods of dealing with it were swept under the carpet
A certain amount of the blame for the problem has to be laid at the general population and in some cases all of it in my opinion

So she deserved the treatment that was meted out to her then ?

I was just highlighting what a toxic septic organisation the AGS has been.
And what it was willing to put a young woman through all under the pretence that they were some great custodians and upholders of moral decency.

And yes they were morally bankrupt back then.
They didn't suddenly start their sleeveen ways, it has always been thus.
Just ask anyone that ever crossed them, no matter how much they were in the right.
For instance just ask any publican that has ever refused to serve them afterhours.

And bullcr** to your assertion that the corruption was exposed and dealt with by officers.
The brave officers that exposed it were officially filleted and their lives made hell as has been widely made public.

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

Listening to her whining on Sean O'Rourke (RTE1 ) a few minutes ago, it appears that she wants everyone who was around in 1984 to grovel at her feet.

Evidently, she has decided that she is Ireland's national martyr - Macroom's very own Joan of Arc.

You really are a special person.

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Everyone finds Garda/Defence force training tough and anyone who says differently has never completed it. Its to prepare you for what is ahead. She was not a "young woman" she was trainee Garda. She had a working knowledge of regulations and the law.

So you have completed some of this training then ?

You certainly have the mentality to fit well in.

17-06-2019 04:55PM

ah ffs have we been posting to the "i love the gardai and everything every garda has ever done" thread again

thanks for coming in and setting us all straight

we needed that

ok whats next on the agenda?

Edgware · 17-06-2019 06:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

ah ffs have we been posting to the "i love the gardai and everything every garda has ever done" thread again

thanks for coming in and setting us all straight

we needed that

ok whats next on the agenda?

Well it is getting near " Spanish students on the buses" season Joe

Beechwoodspark · 17-06-2019 06:24PM

You’d wonder if she had her time again would she have just married the recruit she had the affair with.

That way she would’ve kept her baby (which obv was a big deal to her and rightly so) and also would’ve been in “good standing” with Her employer at the time.

It’s a tough one. She instead turned down his offer of marriage, relented and gave her baby for adoption, and ever since then by all accounts has been in a very bad mental state over her decision.

Edgware · 17-06-2019 06:33PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

You’d wonder if she had her time again would she have just married the recruit she had the affair with.

That way she would’ve kept her baby (which obv was a big deal to her and rightly so) and also would’ve been in “good standing” with Her employer at the time.

It’s a tough one. She instead turned down his offer of marriage, relented and gave her baby for adoption, and ever since then by all accounts has been in a very bad mental state over her decision.

She must have felt that marriage wasnt the solution. Then the practical work of rearing a child alone must have come into play. Her Mam was dead since she was one, her father was in England in a new life. She had sisters but there really was no close family support. It is a problem that a lot of women faced in that time. Of course she regretted having to put the child up for adoption but in the circumstances she had little choice.

Beechwoodspark · 17-06-2019 06:35PM

Edgware wrote: »

She must have felt that marriage wasnt the solution. Then the practical work of rearing a child alone must have come into play. Her Mam was dead since she was one, her father was in England in a new life. She had sisters but there really was no close family support. It is a problem that a lot of women faced in that time. Of course she regretted having to put the child up for adoption but in the circumstances she had little choice.

That’s what I’m saying. I’m not judging at all -I don’t know what this guy she had a relationship was like obviously- but HAD she married him, she’d have been able to keep the baby and her job presumably.

17-06-2019 06:54PM

Edgware wrote: »

She must have felt that marriage wasnt the solution. Then the practical work of rearing a child alone must have come into play. Her Mam was dead since she was one, her father was in England in a new life. She had sisters but there really was no close family support. It is a problem that a lot of women faced in that time. Of course she regretted having to put the child up for adoption but in the circumstances she had little choice.

i suppose laid out like that: what had the gardaí to do with the decision, really.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-06-2019 07:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

In 1983, a single woman just had to go to her GP and get a prescription for the Pill, same as now. This is FACT. Mind you, they also had to get a prescription in order to legally obtain condoms!

mariaalice wrote: »

Its amazing what people think went on in the 1980s GP prescribe the pill to regulate peroids from the 1960s on now maybe they should have been more honest but its mad to think GP was in mortal terror of the Catholic church. Also the bizzare ideas people have about rural Ireland.

In my rural hometown, some of the GPs would only give married women prescriptions for the pill.

A friend of mine was told in 2002 by her GP that he was very disappointed in her when she went to him looking for emergency contraception.

Lackadaisical · 17-06-2019 07:13PM

Ireland's changed a hell of a lot over a very short time. All I'd say is it's important to hear these stories as they serve as a reminder of why that's an era that should never be returned to.

When you look at parts of the US today, they're headed down that same kind of ultra conservative, religious route.

17-06-2019 07:15PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

In my rural hometown, some of the GPs would only give married women prescriptions for the pill.

There are still some who won’t prescribe the Pill!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 17-06-2019 07:22PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Hey she knew the rules. she chose her play and she cant complain because she didnt like how it turned out.

She have several different options and she chose her own path career first and screw the child. She could have had her cake and ate it by marrying the guy, repeating the year and still having her career.

Before anyone one says "she didnt want to marry him". If he was good enough to be let into the sack he was good enough for the marriage bed. Get over it.

Oh... my god. Are you not absolutely mortified to have posted that?

Edgware · 17-06-2019 07:31PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

i suppose laid out like that: what had the gardaí to do with the decision, really.

I really cant work that out. If she was in a position to provide for the child and herself all the Garda would require is that she would report for duty and be available to do whatever duty she was given. It would be very difficult for her to organise child care if working shift work around the clock but there are plenty of clerical jobs being done by Gardai that would be more family friendly hours. Of course she would have needed support from within her job for that to happen but obviously someone in authority wasnt prepared to give it and wanted to discipline her instead. She was in a very lonely position and had little options.

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 07:49PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

You’d wonder if she had her time again would she have just married the recruit she had the affair with.

That way she would’ve kept her baby (which obv was a big deal to her and rightly so) and also would’ve been in “good standing” with Her employer at the time.

It’s a tough one. She instead turned down his offer of marriage, relented and gave her baby for adoption, and ever since then by all accounts has been in a very bad mental state over her decision.

The baby was taken off her. By force. Listen to it again.

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 07:53PM

Edgware wrote: »

I really cant work that out. If she was in a position to provide for the child and herself all the Garda would require is that she would report for duty and be available to do whatever duty she was given. It would be very difficult for her to organise child care if working shift work around the clock but there are plenty of clerical jobs being done by Gardai that would be more family friendly hours. Of course she would have needed support from within her job for that to happen but obviously someone in authority wasnt prepared to give it and wanted to discipline her instead. She was in a very lonely position and had little options.

Listen to it again. Everyone missed that key point.
She didn’t want her family knowing especially her father.
She sat with him during a radio report about it and he asked her do you okie that woman? And she said no.

She could never bring that baby home. Never. She had no options and no support. And she was forced to give it up anyways

Edgware · 17-06-2019 08:18PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Listen to it again. Everyone missed that key point.
She didn’t want her family knowing especially her father.
She sat with him during a radio report about it and he asked her do you okie that woman? And she said no.

She could never bring that baby home. Never. She had no options and no support. And she was forced to give it up anyways

She was like many other women so. The difference is that the Garda Commissioner wanted to make an example of her. I dont believe that this situation was allowed to progress without the knowledge and consent of the Commissioner. A man who was a product of the 30s/40s.

Beechwoodspark · 17-06-2019 08:28PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

The baby was taken off her. By force. Listen to it again.

Eh what? that’s a far too simplistic version of the situation

Stop moaning ffs · 17-06-2019 08:31PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Eh what? that’s a far too simplistic version of the situation

It’s what happened.
I listened to it twice and her interview this morning. Which is three times more than most other people in this thread reading the comments.

Spanish Eyes · 17-06-2019 08:32PM

The likes of Opus Dei were (maybe still are) endemic in the Garda force back in the day. Same for Public Sector managers and many other places of influence.

Emily O'Reilly wrote a book about it "The Masterminds of the Right". Read it.

Garda Apology

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