ketogenic forum

Mellor · 04-02-2019 11:39AM

Magnatu wrote: »

That is one of the great cons of keto. If you deolere glycogen as keto does you will also lose the water weight glycogen holds. Possibly 4-8 lbs.

How is that a con?
It literally happens.

This is not fat. If you go off keto to balanced diet. you will put back on the water weight almost immediately. As soon as your glycogen stores fill up again.

And?
If you follow Keto, lose glycogen + 4kg fat.
Then you return a balanced diet and replenish glycogen...you've still lost 4kg.

But people see. Keto =weight loss : Going off keto =weight gain.

Well it is weight gain. It's just not fat.
3kg of glycogen and water weighs 3kg. And it's very beneficial to use that weight to your advantage if you compete in a sport with weight divisions, for example.

Magnatu · 04-02-2019 11:54AM

Mellor wrote: »

How is that a con?
It literally happens. .

Because you hear people saying things like.
*I started keto on Monday and am down 5lbs already. Great diet*.
Or
"I fell off the wagon at the weekend. Had some fruit and vegetables. Put in a few pounds. My bad.
Come Monday it's back to the processed meats. Rashers are so healthy and good for you"

Mellor · 04-02-2019 12:14PM

Magnatu wrote: »

Because you hear people saying things like.
*I started keto on Monday and am down 5lbs already. Great diet*.
Or
"I fell off the wagon at the weekend. Had some fruit and vegetables. Put in a few pounds. My bad.
Come Monday it's back to the processed meats. Rashers are so healthy and good for you"

Those people are dumb and don't understand nutrition.
How is the keto's diets fault? It's shouldn't be blamed for people ignorance.

If you scroll up, you see where I called out crash type diets for pretending the water loss is fat, and thus leading people to believe the gain is fat. That's actively conning people.

RiderOnTheStorm · 04-02-2019 10:13PM

Magnatu wrote: »

RiderOnTheStorm wrote: »

I Keto isnt a diet. Look at it as a way of life. Like vegetarianism. You wont get the advantages if you do it short term. The primary advantage of keto is that its healthy and good for the body (ie healing). Weight loss is a secondary advantage.

Give it a month. You will see & feel more improvements than weight loss.

Really. I call BS. The reason people do keto is weight loss. This is not a secondary advantage.
And your claim that removing carbs from diet is healthy and good for the body is very dubious.

My OH and I do keto for the health benefits. We are 7 months in and never felt better. All the good keto books, sites and articles say keto is to help with seizures, diabetes, abd inflammation. Weight loss IS secondary.

Removing carbs is fine. Plenty of science to back this up. There are such things as essential fats, essential protiens, even essential oils .... But no such thing as essential carbs. Why? Because they are not essential.

amdublin · 04-02-2019 11:07PM

I feel a million times better on keto - Mind body and soul. My brain is clearer and i find it easier to study for college on keto. Avocado is brain food for brain power.

Bunny Colvin · 15-02-2019 01:38PM

I went off and enjoyed myself last weekend. Had pints on Saturday and pizza Sunday. Back on it since Monday, I didn't go through the keto flu but it still took a couple of days to get back into the swing on things. It's probably not worth it just breaking it for a weekend, more hassle than anything else.

jaffa20 · 17-02-2019 01:42AM

I'm on keto diet at the moment for approx 5 weeks and down about 1 stone. Would like to lose another 2 stone. I do miss chips but when i get these cravings, if it have something fatty, my cravings disappear.

I do feel a bit more energetic and less hungry a lot of the time. I am planning on sticking to this until a long weekend break in May abroad but then go right back on it. (i will try my best to limit carbs though)

I am hoping to incorporate slightly more carbs as i get closer to my goal weight and then stick to it. The main thing is that i am eating less processed foods but spending more time reading labels and feel less bloated which is nice.

Hells Belles · 26-04-2019 09:57AM

I'm on day 4 of a VLCD (very low calorie diet) which is also keto. They say you can have 250mls of skimmed milk per day or unsweetened almond or coconut milk. My local cafe in work uses Alpro Professional coconut and almond milk. Here are the links to the products and their ingredients/nutritional values. If I was to have one cappuccino 2 or three times per week made with this almond or coconut milk, would it throw me out of ketosis? There is sugar in the ingredients.

https://www.alpro.com/uk/for-professionals/products/drinks/almond/almond-for-professionals

https://www.alpro.com/uk/for-professionals/products/drinks/coconut/coconut-for-professionals#productrange

Thanks

Brian201888 · 26-04-2019 10:38AM

Very low calorie and Keto doesn't really work as a combination. What are you eating?

Hells Belles · 26-04-2019 11:31AM

Brian - it's the New You Plan. I'm not in favour of crash diets but desperation has set in! Basically shakes, soups, meal replacement bars:

http://blog.thenewyouplan.com/faqs

Mellor · 26-04-2019 12:01PM

Brian201888 wrote:

Very low calorie and Keto doesn't really work as a combination. What are you eating?

What's the basis for that statement?
Makes no sense to me tbh.

VLCD work by creating huge deficits, and inducing ketosis. I'm not a fan of them, but they aren't in any way at odds with ketosis.

@HellesBelles
The sugar content of the almond milk isn't ideal. But one coffee (c.200ml) isn't going kick you out of ketosis. Just account for the sugars

silverharp · 26-04-2019 12:09PM

Hells Belles wrote: »

Brain - it's the New You Plan. I'm not in favour of crash diets but desperation has set in! Basically shakes, soups, meal replacement bars:

http://blog.thenewyouplan.com/faqs

so basically a low carb Newcastle diet? is there any data on how successfully the people kept off the weight 3 or 4 years later? the main problem with this kind of dieting is that it comes close to the much vaunted "starvation mode" , the last thing thing you want to do is unnecessarily slowdown your metabolism in the long run

Mellor · 26-04-2019 12:22PM

Got any evidence that an overweight person's metabolism slow after a few weeks on a VLCD?

Their body is "consuming" irs daily calories than they are due energy from fat stores.
If the energy demand exceeds the rate that the body can supplynit, there's a problem and the body will try to solve it. But that's a lot more likely when a person is lean. Rather than overweight.

smurfjed · 26-04-2019 12:42PM

I'm on day 4 of a VLCD (very low calorie diet) which is also keto

I thought that the whole concept of KETO was to reduce carbs and make your body work on ketones, so how can you achieve that on a VLCD without monitoring the macros?

Mellor · 26-04-2019 02:04PM

VLCD are often so low, that after basic protein and fat requirements are met. There's only really Keto levels of carbs over.
But most of them, that I seen, actively promote ketosis alongside VLCD.

smurfjed · 26-04-2019 04:56PM

What exactly is your calorie intake for "very low"?

Mellor · 29-04-2019 01:39AM

smurfjed wrote: »

What exactly is your calorie intake for "very low"?

VLCD is usually defined as 800 or less

silverharp · 29-04-2019 12:03PM

Mellor wrote: »

Got any evidence that an overweight person's metabolism slow after a few weeks on a VLCD?

Their body is "consuming" irs daily calories than they are due energy from fat stores.
If the energy demand exceeds the rate that the body can supplynit, there's a problem and the body will try to solve it. But that's a lot more likely when a person is lean. Rather than overweight.

The link said it was a 12 week programme so basically 3 months, keto might square the circle but it doesn’t seem to be a common approach , most people seem to go down the IF or some version of alternate day fasting rather than a straight line approach.

Bunny Colvin · 08-06-2019 01:01AM

I'm back on keto the last two weeks. I was on holiday during May and was just plain lazy restarting. It can be tough to get back into it but once you're in, it's fine.

The best thing about it is how it restricts what you're eating. There's a gigantic bag of chocolate and sweets sitting in my kitchen and I haven't had the urge to even look at them. I can guarantee that wouldn't be the case if I was just calorie counting. An all or nothing approach maybe but it's amazing how you just don't care about sugar or carbohydrates after a while.I'm also not calorie counting. I've a good idea on how many calories I'm consuming after using MyfitnessPal before but it's nice not having to be militant with that.

One thing I'm doing different this time is wising up to my intake of red meat. Consuming too much simply won't be good in the long term. 70g is the recommended intake and I was eating way beyond that on my last keto trip. Less cold meats, bacon, mince and steak and more healthy fats and greens this time.

silverharp · 08-06-2019 03:37PM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

One thing I'm doing different this time is wising up to my intake of red meat. Consuming too much simply won't be good in the long term. 70g is the recommended intake and I was eating way beyond that on my last keto trip. Less cold meats, bacon, mince and steak and more healthy fats and greens this time.

there is a lot of agenda driven hate against meat all backed up by dubious questionnaire and association studies. if the meat is fresh i wouldnt see an upper level as a thing. once you arent eating it on pizza or with fries:pac:

Bunny Colvin · 08-06-2019 03:42PM

silverharp wrote: »

there is a lot of agenda driven hate against meat all backed up by dubious questionnaire and association studies. if the meat is fresh i wouldnt see an upper level as a thing. once you arent eating it on pizza or with fries:pac:

There's evidence of over consumption being linked to bowel cancer

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/red-meat-and-the-risk-of-bowel-cancer/

Bunny Colvin · 08-06-2019 03:46PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'd rather die 5 years younger than restrict my red meat to 350g a week. F*ck that noise.

I was taking the piss with it last time round though. No harm to be mindful and try to be closer to 70g than 140g for example.

Alf Veedersane · 08-06-2019 03:53PM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

There's evidence of over consumption being linked to bowel cancer

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/red-meat-and-the-risk-of-bowel-cancer/

Colorectal cancer. But consuming more dairy products decreases the risk of colorectal cancer.

Eat red meat.
Wash down with milk.
Win.

Bunny Colvin · 08-06-2019 03:55PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Colorectal cancer. But consuming more dairy products decreases the risk of colorectal cancer.

Eat red meat.
Wash down with milk.
Win.

Soya milk you mean

Alf Veedersane · 08-06-2019 03:55PM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

I was taking the piss with it last time round though. No harm to be mindful and try to be closer to 70g than 140g for example.

The report the NHS link references is to have red meat no more then 3 days a week and to have no more than 350-500g across those 3 days, which is slightly more palatable.

Alf Veedersane · 08-06-2019 03:57PM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

Soya milk you mean

Don't say that to Robert Paulson.

silverharp · 08-06-2019 04:19PM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

There's evidence of over consumption being linked to bowel cancer

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/red-meat-and-the-risk-of-bowel-cancer/

"possible" "associated" all weak epidemiological stuff. i'd be more interested in cutting out the bad stuff like processed foods and sugar, seed oils and stick as much as possible with whole foods that dont need sophisticated factories and processing to make them edible.
Red meat in particular is nutrient dense with excellent bio availability. Unless a consensus bubbled up with something solid like tobacco or an actual cause then just assume its making data fit patterns which is essentially noise.
You'd be amazed that whatever the scare du jour is the "rise" of something bad ends up being something like 14/10,000 to 16/10,000,panic stations :pac:

c.p.w.g.w · 09-06-2019 06:57PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Colorectal cancer. But consuming more dairy products decreases the risk of colorectal cancer.

Eat red meat.
Wash down with milk.
Win.

Also eating green vegetables with red meat decreases certain byproducts of its digestion that can harmful.

Do these studies look at other lifestyle aspects such as sleep and stress

Grab All Association · 16-06-2019 12:37PM

Slightly off topic here

From Rté
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0608/1054172-what-legislation-can-do-to-help-prevent-and-treat-diabetes/

Introduce a 'fat tax': That would make high-energy, high-fat foods more expensive and would subsidise the cost of healthier foods such as fresh fruit and vegetables. The 'plastic bag' tax is evident of the effect that such a judiciously-placed tax can have on the habits of a community.

So he's calling for a fat tax when it's the actual carbohydrates in food that causes the insulin release, fat storage and obesity

Alf Veedersane · 16-06-2019 01:51PM

Grab All Association wrote: »

Slightly off topic here

From Rté
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0608/1054172-what-legislation-can-do-to-help-prevent-and-treat-diabetes/

So he's calling for a fat tax when it's the actual carbohydrates in food that causes the insulin release, fat storage and obesity

Carbs don't cause obesity. Eating too much does.

That said, if a tax was just on high fat foods, that would be nonsense and difficult to get in any way right

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