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NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2018-19 Thread

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    #1982
    Hitch2222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    Carcharodon wrote: »
    Warriors dynasty going to be put on hold, such a shame it had to go down like this, you really couldn’t get worse luck, sports don’t build character, they reveal it

    Yeah they've been unlucky here but solid argument for them being the most fortunate franchise in the past number of years.

    Although no one can take away how well they drafted, they struck gold that T-Wolves picked 2 PG's in Jonny Flynn & Rubio leaving Steph on the table. Subsequently Steph's dodgy ankles were a blessing in disguise as it drove down his market value leaving them get a discount on his talent freeing up the cap space for other players.

    They got lucky that a player with KD's talent who has the capacity to lead a team would be willing to buck conventional wisdom and join the best team in the league having nearly beat them with his previous team. Additionally his willingness to take a discount to retain Iggie & Livingston was a major factor in their success

    They got lucky that David Lee got injured at the time freeing up Draymond to finally get an opportunity as Lee wasn't being reduced to a bench role given his apparent productivity at the time. This change allowed the Warriors to further develop the style that would win them championships.

    I'm sure there's more lucky as well as more unlucky parts too but on a whole, I think the Warriors have been quite fortuitous over the past few years, smart enough to capitalise on that good fortune having the likes of West & Kerr among others at the helm making good decisions.

    Lots of good fortune came their way but similar to the Raptors here, the good fortune of a depleted Warriors team will be forgotten.


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    #1983
    SharpshooterTom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    Carcharodon wrote: »
    Warriors dynasty going to be put on hold, such a shame it had to go down like this, you really couldn’t get worse luck, sports don’t build character, they reveal it

    If they make the playoffs with KD and Klay back fully fit they'll be a force again, probably still favourites in the west in that case.


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    #1984
    Hitch2222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    ThomasFlynn wrote: »
    If they make the playoffs with KD and Klay back fully fit they'll be a force again, probably still favourites in the west in that case.

    Maybe in 2021, KD is out up to 9 months now according to new recovery rates for this injury, no way he is back to full strength by playoff time though.

    Unfortunately the probability of recovery from Achilles injuries is low anyway:
    https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/1/27/16940178/nba-achilles-injury-history-kevin-durant-golden-state-warriors-future

    I think the dynasty is likely over for the moment anyway, a slight regress over full rebuild so they could rebound pretty quickly.


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    #1985
    Angliru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Angliru


    Off season is going to be fascinating with all the potential trades and free agents floating about.


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    #1986
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,219 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    KD being out next season makes him a very interesting FA prospect. Does he still command a max?

    Does Thompson give a small discount to the Warriors now also?

    Kawhi is on the market.
    Kyrie is on the market.

    Lots of interesting pieces around too like Walker, Jimmy Buckets, Cousins, Porzingis and Vucevic.

    And the likely demise of the Warriors opens it all up again. We’ve had a half decade with one clear favourite and - before LeBron left Cleveland - a staid landscape. We’ve just had a brilliant playoffs and superb finals too. I’m as excited about things as I’ve been in a while!!

    (Toronto shouldn’t care, but injuries decided the series. The Warriors ran well for a long time, and I see the argument of them being “due” bad luck - but it should have been their title. I suppose it evens up with 2015 where Cleveland would think they were favourites with Kyrie and Love on the floor)


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    #1987
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Jalen Rose compared the KD situation to that of Grant Hill (played hurt in the postseason, got hurt again, still got a max deal with the Magic but injuries marred the rest of his career) which would be a true tragedy if it panned out that way.

    I believe the Warriors did benefit from luck throughout this run, but I wouldn’t hold it against them. They still had to perform and I think, if you were to make any grand conclusions, it’s that asking a team to play until June five years ago will eventually cause that team to break down physically. Mentally the fact they still kept competitive, and had an open shot to win it, while leaning on Shaun Livingston and Quinn Cook proves their mettle as champions. They just ran out of gas at the last hurdle. I hope we see Klay and KD back at their best though (even if not with GSW, though I’d say Klay is a sure thing to re-sign now), it would be a heartbreaking long-term cost of this run if we didn’t and they deserve better.


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    #1988
    Hitch2222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    KD being out next season makes him a very interesting FA prospect. Does he still command a max?

    Does Thompson give a small discount to the Warriors now also?

    Kawhi is on the market.
    Kyrie is on the market.

    Lots of interesting pieces around too like Walker, Jimmy Buckets, Cousins, Porzingis and Vucevic.

    And the likely demise of the Warriors opens it all up again. We’ve had a half decade with one clear favourite and - before LeBron left Cleveland - a staid landscape. We’ve just had a brilliant playoffs and superb finals too. I’m as excited about things as I’ve been in a while!!

    (Toronto shouldn’t care, but injuries decided the series. The Warriors ran well for a long time, and I see the argument of them being “due” bad luck - but it should have been their title. I suppose it evens up with 2015 where Cleveland would think they were favourites with Kyrie and Love on the floor)

    Dallas give KP the max I think unless he takes a discount.

    I think one of the more interesting prospects who's career may simply be determined by Kyrie is D'Angelo Russell as the Nets won't be willing to match an offer sheet for him if Kyrie arrives.

    Personally I'd prefer to give him the max than Kemba though I know Kemba has indicated he'd take a discount to remain in Charlotte.


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    #1989
    K.O.Kiki
    Registered Users Posts: 18,703 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    Good for the Raptors but I'm bummed out that Klay & KD have had their careers dramatically reduced.


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    #1990
    Jjjjjjjjbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Jjjjjjjjbarry


    Just been watching some of the finals and can't believe how much the game has changed - or at least that what it seems to me.

    It seems every attack is a frantic effort to fire off a 3-pointer. It used to be a more controlled setup looking for the high percentage shot with post ups and more inside play and the kick outs for 3's were to space the floor and keep everyone honest. The shot clock doesn't seem to be used as much.

    Is that a fair assessment or is it just how these games played out?


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    #1991
    Hitch2222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »
    Just been watching some of the finals and can't believe how much the game has changed - or at least that what it seems to me.

    It seems every attack is a frantic effort to fire off a 3-pointer. It used to be a more controlled setup looking for the high percentage shot with post ups and more inside play and the kick outs for 3's were to space the floor and keep everyone honest. The shot clock doesn't seem to be used as much.

    Is that a fair assessment or is it just how these games played out?

    This distribution of shots taken has changed, Kiki I think has shared some good graphics in the past.

    The high octane style is statistically the most optimal and you're not wrong that the game has moved from taking mid range shots to either <5ft shots or beyond the 3pt line.

    Basic premise, shooting 40% from 3pt range = shooting 60% from 2pt range. Very few people can get into the 60% 2pt range mainly within 5ft hence the change in distribution.

    Not as aesthetically pleasing to watch sometimes but it's +EV for teams it seems before rule changes or adjustments nullify this.


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    #1992
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,219 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Yes the game is dramatically different to 20 years ago, it has completely changed. Analytics and data driven approaches have identified that teams should shoot threes way more often. The midrange 2 pointer is the least efficient shot in the game and therefore is being eliminated from the game.

    If you really want to understand the difference watch tape of the Rockets and James Harden in particular.


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    #1993
    Gwynplaine
    Registered Users Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭Gwynplaine


    Well done Raptors. But how are they "World Champions"?
    Maybe Limerick should be renamed Hurling World Champions.


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    #1994
    irishguitarlad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭irishguitarlad


    Fred Van Vleet played his heart out in this series, man is clutch.


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    #1995
    Legion.
    Registered Users Posts: 401 ✭✭Legion.


    Can't believe they actually won it. So many years of getting flat out terrorised by Lebron and now they're NBA Champions. I'm about to drop an unholy sum of money on various books and merchandise and I really dont care


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    #1996
    Hitch2222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    Gwynplaine wrote: »
    Well done Raptors. But how are they "World Champions"?
    Maybe Limerick should be renamed Hurling World Champions.

    When JP starts drafting in high value international mercenaries to moonlight as caddies in Adare while playing hurling for Limerick then you can call them world champs ;)


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    #1997
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,958 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    Hitch2222 wrote: »
    Yeah they've been unlucky here but solid argument for them being the most fortunate franchise in the past number of years.

    Although no one can take away how well they drafted, they struck gold that T-Wolves picked 2 PG's in Jonny Flynn & Rubio leaving Steph on the table. Subsequently Steph's dodgy ankles were a blessing in disguise as it drove down his market value leaving them get a discount on his talent freeing up the cap space for other players.

    They got lucky that a player with KD's talent who has the capacity to lead a team would be willing to buck conventional wisdom and join the best team in the league having nearly beat them with his previous team. Additionally his willingness to take a discount to retain Iggie & Livingston was a major factor in their success

    They got lucky that David Lee got injured at the time freeing up Draymond to finally get an opportunity as Lee wasn't being reduced to a bench role given his apparent productivity at the time. This change allowed the Warriors to further develop the style that would win them championships.

    I'm sure there's more lucky as well as more unlucky parts too but on a whole, I think the Warriors have been quite fortuitous over the past few years, smart enough to capitalise on that good fortune having the likes of West & Kerr among others at the helm making good decisions.

    Lots of good fortune came their way but similar to the Raptors here, the good fortune of a depleted Warriors team will be forgotten.

    But of a yawn there bro, we all know the history and anyone can regurgitate stuff they got off an online article. I can agree these events are a part of the warriors story but they are not the entire story, a lot of what ifs in there.
    Bottom line for me is Warriors ownership changed and the warriors team changed, they got some good breaks but every team does, it’s the decisions you make that define you.
    I don’t think is a fair or even relative comparison to sustaining two serious long term injuries in the finals
    I think the Warriors would of won this series healthy but I don’t think the Raptors were lucky, they did what they had to do, no what ifs


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    #1998
    Hitch2222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Hitch2222


    Carcharodon wrote: »
    But of a yawn there bro, we all know the history and anyone can regurgitate stuff they got off an online article. I can agree these events are a part of the warriors story but they are not the entire story, a lot of what ifs in there.
    Bottom line for me is Warriors ownership changed and the warriors team changed, they got some good breaks but every team does, it’s the decisions you make that define you.
    I don’t think is a fair or even relative comparison to sustaining two serious long term injuries in the finals
    I think the Warriors would of won this series healthy but I don’t think the Raptors were lucky, they did what they had to do, no what ifs

    I don't usually do the lol thing but a case could be made that it's warranted here.

    I didn't regurgitate anything, obviously I can't prove that but I didn't, i didn't even read an article on the topic. The only mention of luck I read was from you tbh.
    All of the above was from memory.

    I acknowledged the excellent decisioning around Kerr, West & others. GSW have done a fantastic job, it's not the full story but it's significant moments in their history.

    They likely aren't even close to this spot only for KD which was an unprecedented move at the time. That was very fortuitous for them.
    KD, LBJ & Kawhi make every team in the NBA immediatelu relevant as they have all now shown.

    Everyone thinks the Warriors would have won the series healthy, they were unfortunate to be struck with injuries but everyone gets injured players and if you look at the totality of this GSW dynasty, it's fair to say at least on the face of it, they got more lucky than unlucky breaks.


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    #1999
    simongurnick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭simongurnick


    irishguitarlad wrote: »
    Fred Van Vleet played his heart out in this series, man is clutch.

    He's a great guy too from what I have read and seen. His Dad was murdered when Fred was a kid. His town in Illinois is rough, a lot of crime and he has come through positively and still lives there outside of the season and runs programs for kids. They had the only Jurassic Park viewing party outside of Canada.
    Serious effort last night.


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    #2000
    jackwigan
    Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭jackwigan


    ThomasFlynn wrote: »
    Because they're mentally weak, Raps are making very hard of this.

    The fact that they my lose this series without Durant obviously speaks to the talent of GSW, but mental fragility of the Raptors.

    Mhmm


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    #2001
    Legion.
    Registered Users Posts: 401 ✭✭Legion.


    ThomasFlynn wrote: »
    Because they're mentally weak, Raps are making very hard of this.

    The fact that they my lose this series without Durant obviously speaks to the talent of GSW, but mental fragility of the Raptors.

    This is a truly awful take


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    #2002
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,958 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    Hitch2222 wrote: »
    I don't usually do the lol thing but a case could be made that it's warranted here.

    I didn't regurgitate anything, obviously I can't prove that but I didn't, i didn't even read an article on the topic. The only mention of luck I read was from you tbh.
    All of the above was from memory.

    I acknowledged the excellent decisioning around Kerr, West & others. GSW have done a fantastic job, it's not the full story but it's significant moments in their history.

    They likely aren't even close to this spot only for KD which was an unprecedented move at the time. That was very fortuitous for them.
    KD, LBJ & Kawhi make every team in the NBA immediatelu relevant as they have all now shown.

    Everyone thinks the Warriors would have won the series healthy, they were unfortunate to be struck with injuries but everyone gets injured players and if you look at the totality of this GSW dynasty, it's fair to say at least on the face of it, they got more lucky than unlucky breaks.

    I just don’t like what is and x and y would of happened if z did this, it’s just speculation and noise. I get the points but I think we both agree it’s not the whole story. You make your own luck and the Warriors have done that, theses injuries on top of each other are awful

    And most importantly my ticket prices for next year have probably taken a hit...


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    #2003
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wooooooooooooooooooooooo

    I took the chance of taking today off work and it was needed! Left the bar after the game and walked downtown and it was just incredible. I just roamed about until 4am just taking it in.

    That start from Lowry was insane. Funnily enough I thought that first half was one of the worst halfs they had in these finals. 3's kept them in it and papered over cracks just like it did for GSW in Game 5. So so so happy right now


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    #2004
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,958 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    Iam generally not too emotional with sports ( lot a lot of stuff according to some ex’s but that’s a different thread,lol) but I feel so bad for Klay, I almost want to send him a get well card.
    He has been at the forefront of changing this organization, an absolute gent of a man, cool as a breeze, no drama, 100% effort every night. It looked like he was taking control of series last night and it just really really sucks for this to happen at this stage. Along with steph and co, they have given so many great memories, people will look back at this time in years to come and reminisce
    Right, I need to suck it up, Jesus iam a mess...


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    #2005
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    It’s genuinely one of the most heartbreaking injuries I can remember in sports. Literally as he was taking over the game and having his big moment, coming off a great 2 that seemed to be shifting the game and maybe the series. The immediate tone shift was one of a kind, and then to go back to elation moments later when he came out of the tunnel, I’ll never forget it.


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    #2006
    Osmosis Jones
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭Osmosis Jones


    So free agency time, who's going where? This is one of the biggest pools of free agent talent in quite a few years. The injuries to KD and Klay, and even Boogie, make it even more interesting:

    Kevin Durant
    Kyrie Irving
    Klay Thompson
    DeMarcus Cousins
    Kemba Walker
    Kristaps Porzingis (RFA)
    Kawhi Leonard
    Jimmy Butler
    D'Angelo Russell
    Khris Middleton
    Nikola Vucevic
    Tobias Harris

    Looking at that list now though there aren't many players I see leaving their current teams. Kyrie and Vucevic are the only ones I'm positive are gone. If Kyrie goes to Brooklyn it'll be interesting to see what happens with Russell, those two don't make a good backcourt pairing imo, I think they still offer KD the max and let Russell walk, but if KD elects to stay with the Warriors they'll probably re-sign him for the max and just hope it works out.

    I think the Lakers go for either Boogie or Vuc too, they really need a center and even though they'll probably end up with AD he's always been pretty adamant that he's actually a power forward.


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    #2007
    SharpshooterTom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    Legion. wrote: »
    This is a truly awful take

    I dunno, that's what they were saying on insidehoops anyway.


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    #2008
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,958 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    Osmosis Jones wrote: »
    So free agency time, who's going where? This is one of the biggest pools of free agent talent in quite a few years. The injuries to KD and Klay, and even Boogie, make it even more interesting:

    Kevin Durant
    Kyrie Irving
    Klay Thompson
    DeMarcus Cousins
    Kemba Walker
    Kristaps Porzingis (RFA)
    Kawhi Leonard
    Jimmy Butler
    D'Angelo Russell
    Khris Middleton
    Nikola Vucevic
    Tobias Harris

    Looking at that list now though there aren't many players I see leaving their current teams. Kyrie and Vucevic are the only ones I'm positive are gone. If Kyrie goes to Brooklyn it'll be interesting to see what happens with Russell, those two don't make a good backcourt pairing imo, I think they still offer KD the max and let Russell walk, but if KD elects to stay with the Warriors they'll probably re-sign him for the max and just hope it works out.

    I think the Lakers go for either Boogie or Vuc too, they really need a center and even though they'll probably end up with AD he's always been pretty adamant that he's actually a power forward.

    I think Klay will stay, I really hope he does, would love to see him and curry win another championship together down the road.
    Durant is a flip of a coin, too many variables
    Cousins has shown flashes but no where near his best, I’d like to see him stay at Warriors but won’t be happening.

    Irving is a bit of a cancer these days, Nets would be a good fit


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    #2009
    shamrock55
    Registered Users Posts: 7,208 ✭✭✭shamrock55


    Gwynplaine wrote: »
    Well done Raptors. But how are they "World Champions"?
    Maybe Limerick should be renamed Hurling World Champions.

    If you you win a title in America be it football, basketball, baseball or ice hockey your a world champion, basically nothing exists outside the US, even though Toronto is obviously


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    #2010
    Jamsiek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Jamsiek


    Osmosis Jones wrote: »
    I know since the new lad's been in office NBA teams haven't been visiting him anyway, but would a Canadian team get an invite to the White House or would they go see their Prime Minister? :p

    That's an interesting one. A lot of Americans on that team but I'm sure they aren't trump fans. Trudeau should meet them for sure.

    The St Louis Blues that won the hockey Wednesday night have the most Canadians of all the teams from the US so maybe they could do the same there.


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    #2011
    Jamsiek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭Jamsiek


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    Currently in Toronto, had no idea this was on

    The view from my hotel window at the moment


    I don't mind the crowds etc, but there's some clown out there with a really loud car revving the crap out of his engine

    How did you not know this was on?
    I thought the city was gone Raptors crazy


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