Journalism and cycling

JMcL · 10-06-2019 4:23pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

A med. stat.s person on Twitter points out:
https://twitter.com/lycraolaoghaire/status/1137717388210839553
(1) of those presenting with any injury while cycling more wore helmets than not & (2) those wearing helmets who presented with injuries, had a LOWER rate of head injuries.

Which is consistent with
1) high background rate of helmet wearing, very effective against head injuries
or
2) Some people lie about helmet wearing to avoid disapproval (in the scenario where they feel they'll be believed)

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a higher incidence of major trauma in sports cyclists due to factors such as greater speed, the type of roads they cycle etc. This in turn would lead to a higher occurrence of helmet usage as clubs will generally require it and most roadies will wear one regardless

Grassey wrote: »

There isn't a 'rule' yet
Just back from 2 weeks in France, drivers there (in general) made Irish drivers look like paragons of space giving on the roads! That was typically on the main roads though with plenty of sketchy overtaking. In the towns everyone was much more relaxed.

It really depends on the part of France. In my experience around the Loire and the Vendee drivers are courteous and give plenty of space and consideration. Down around Aquitaine however I found there to be a high concentration of impatient assh*ts. Brittany somewhere between the two

meeeeh · 10-06-2019 4:32pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

Totally understand this. I think better cycling infrastructure would go a long way to getting more people to cycle. Also, having to wear cycling specific clothing, helmets etc. is a big disincentive to a lot of people.

I was more thinking about 4 inch heels and voluminous skirts, helmets don't overly bother me.

I'm not the best person to persuade to cycle to work for various reasons not just the ones I listed. I more posted because it's straight away assumed we must be lazy if we don't cycle.

Rechuchote · 10-06-2019 4:33pm

JMcL wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a higher incidence of major trauma in sports cyclists due to factors such as greater speed, the type of roads they cycle etc. This in turn would lead to a higher occurrence of helmet usage as clubs will generally require it and most roadies will wear one regardless

It's one of the things the medical report doesn't open out - what were the sources of these injuries. With such a low number being hit by cars (sorry, colliding with vehicles) I'd guess that a good number might be sports injuries where people going at speed hit gravel on a turn or hit each other while in a close-packed peloton or any of the other possible injuries from racing.

07Lapierre · 10-06-2019 4:53pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I was more thinking about 4 inch heels and voluminous skirts, helmets don't overly bother me. I'm not the best person to persuade to cycle to work for various reasons not just the ones I listed. I more posted because it's straight away assumed we must be lazy if we don't cycle.

Fair enough, although i totally get that cycling is not for everyone. But i'd also argue that driving is not for everyone either and a lot of people drive into our cities because there is no viable alternative. If there was, they'd use it. I think the dublin Bikes is a good example of this. Its used because its convenient. You could also argue that its used because people are too lazy to walk

Rechuchote · 10-06-2019 5:09pm

Cycling wasn't for everyone in Holland in the 1970s. But as the cycling infrastructure was rolled out, more and more people found that it was simpler and more convenient than driving.

tomasrojo · 10-06-2019 8:35pm

Rechuchote wrote: »

Cycling wasn't for everyone in Holland in the 1970s. But as the cycling infrastructure was rolled out, more and more people found that it was simpler and more convenient than driving.

It seems to be a little more nuanced than that. Cycling rates were very high in the Netherlands all through the 20th century, but had been falling rapidly until the mid 70s, when they plateaued and started to climb steadily, but not spectacularly (in percentage terms; they were adding a lot of cyclists in raw numbers, but the numbers never got as low as Ireland in the first place, for example). Even in the early 60s, the Beatles were taken aback by the throngs of cyclists in the Netherlands as they passed through in their van on the way to Hamburg.

However, Seville does seem to be a pretty clear example of rapid uptake of cycling from a very low level (lower than Dublin) when a proper network is built in one go.

tomasrojo · 10-06-2019 8:38pm

I do agree that plenty of people cycle in the Netherlands because of the infrastructure, and many do it because they're lazy, not because they're keen on exercise. Apparently a lot of housing estates are designed so that your bike is parked outside your house, but your car is in a lot a few minutes' walk away.

tomasrojo · 10-06-2019 8:44pm

Here's a graph I found ages ago. A couple of people have found fault with it, but I think the relative numbers aren't that far out:

You can see that they all fall pretty spectacuarly (except Basel, which I did enjoy cycling around, back in the day when I worked there), but Amsterdam and other Dutch cities are very high compared to most European cities even now, even in the mid-70s.

AndrewJRenko · 10-06-2019 8:54pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Irish women wear way more make up than women in a lot of continental countries. There will be some companies which will advise on make up but even without that it's one of those things that it's just done.

One of my very well made up colleagues cycles regularly. I don't know exactly how she does it - maybe she showers and does her make up in work, but she manages fine.

work · 10-06-2019 9:28pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Something that might be relevant is that Irish women are expected to wear more make up than especially women in countries where cycling is more prominent.

I read this and thought you were nuts but then thought about it and realised Irish women are wearing more and more make up and it is just silly. Who is this ethereal being that requires Irish women to wear more make up? They should be prosecuted?

It is a sad sad indictment of the female sex if slopping crap on your face stops you doing things, it is their choice though.
Personally I would like to think women like that are very rare (or do not exist) and very silly.

Lumen · 10-06-2019 9:33pm

work wrote: »

I read this and thought you were nuts but then thought about it and realised Irish women are wearing more and more make up and it is just silly. Who is this ethereal being that requires Irish women to wear more make up? They should be prosecuted?

It is a sad sad indictment of the female sex if slopping crap on your face stops you doing things, it is their choice though.
Personally I would like to think women like that are very rare (or do not exist) and very silly.

wut?

eeeee · 10-06-2019 10:51pm

work wrote: »

I read this and thought you were nuts but then thought about it and realised Irish women are wearing more and more make up and it is just silly. Who is this ethereal being that requires Irish women to wear more make up? They should be prosecuted?

It is a sad sad indictment of the female sex if slopping crap on your face stops you doing things, it is their choice though.
Personally I would like to think women like that are very rare (or do not exist) and very silly.

Make up is a serious business to some people, and like it or not women are under much, much, much more scrutiny regarding their physical appearance than men are, both historically and currently. It does different things to different people. Some people take it on as an art form, some people get a lot of confidence from it, some are just into it as people are into anything, and some have ot wear it for work.

If someone spends an hour doing their make up in the morning I can understand why they wouldn't want it rained off their faces by the time they get in.
It's also something some people are just into, like some are into fashion, shoes, runners, running, gardening, cycling etc etc. etc.

I would never judge anyone on how they chose to present themselves, and the priorities they attach to that as long as it isn't harmful to themselves or others.
Different strokes and all that.

Also my make up takes me all of 5 mins and I have no bother pedalling in it. But I rarely wear make up and I don't attach much importance to it, however others do for all kinds of reasons and they are allowed that.

work · 10-06-2019 11:43pm

nee wrote: »

Make up is a serious business to some people, and like it or not women are under much, much, much more scrutiny regarding their physical appearance than men are, both historically and currently. It does different things to different people. Some people take it on as an art form, some people get a lot of confidence from it, some are just into it as people are into anything, and some have ot wear it for work.

If someone spends an hour doing their make up in the morning I can understand why they wouldn't want it rained off their faces by the time they get in.
It's also something some people are just into, like some are into fashion, shoes, runners, running, gardening, cycling etc etc. etc.

I would never judge anyone on how they chose to present themselves, and the priorities they attach to that as long as it isn't harmful to themselves or others.
Different strokes and all that.

Also my make up takes me all of 5 mins and I have no bother pedalling in it. But I rarely wear make up and I don't attach much importance to it, however others do for all kinds of reasons and they are allowed that.

I take you point but the poster meeeeh said "Irish women are expected to wear more make up than especially women in countries where cycling is more prominent".

It makes them sound like an underclass and not a group that are on an equal footing to the other sex, I think it is a sad comment. Are people really expected to wear makeup for work, would that be defensible in a employment court (or whatever it is called).
Sorry I do not want to go off topic I would like to see the sexes treated equally thats all (especially by women).

Seth Brundle · 10-06-2019 11:46pm

Just in terms of the make up thing - couldn't some women apply it whilst cycling just as many of them do whilst driving?

eeeee · 11-06-2019 12:28am

work wrote: »

I take you point but the poster meeeeh said "Irish women are expected to wear more make up than especially women in countries where cycling is more prominent".

It makes them sound like an underclass and not a group that are on an equal footing to the other sex, I think it is a sad comment. Are people really expected to wear makeup for work, would that be defensible in a employment court (or whatever it is called).
Sorry I do not want to go off topic I would like to see the sexes treated equally thats all (especially by women).

You said it's a sad indictment if 'slapping something on your face stops you from doing something'.
That's a shockingly ignorant statement for lots of reasons.
As I said before, women are judged on their physical appearance far, far, FAR more than men, historically and culturally.
This has consequences, which are so well known I hope I don't have to speak them out here.

Secondly, a lot of people I know get a lot of confidence from wearing makeup, and this confidence is a hell of a lot more important to them than cycling into work.
Thirdly, some people approach their makeup as an art form, and an important form of self expression and/ or identity, so don't want to ruin it in the rain or sweat it off.
None of these reasons are any less important than cycling.

And yes, women are expected to wear makeup to work in some industries. Airlines, beauty counters, regular shops (I've had that one myself), the hostility industry. Often it's a case of not getting shifts until you start coming in with thr right 'look' rather than being told outright.

At the end of the day, there are a myriad of reasons why people wear makeup, and the decision to do so instead of cycling is perfectly justifiable.
It's not a decision you might make, nor I, but I can completely understand why some people choose to keep their makeup intact rather than cycle.
It's a perfectly justifiable reason not to cycle.
To each their own etc. Etc.

Cookie_Monster · 11-06-2019 4:14am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Just in terms of the make up thing - couldn't some women apply it whilst cycling just as many of them do whilst driving?

or you know just not bother, a bit of cycling will make you look far better than a bit of make up

nee wrote: »

And yes, women are expected to wear makeup to work in some industries. Airlines, beauty counters, regular shops (I've had that one myself), the hostility industry.

which one is that? :pac:

Felexicon · 11-06-2019 8:27am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

which one is that? :pac:

Taxi Driving

eeeee · 11-06-2019 8:31am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

which one is that? :pac:

:pac:
It's the worst one!

meeeeh · 11-06-2019 9:18am

work wrote: »

I take you point but the poster meeeeh said "Irish women are expected to wear more make up than especially women in countries where cycling is more prominent".

It makes them sound like an underclass and not a group that are on an equal footing to the other sex, I think it is a sad comment. Are people really expected to wear makeup for work, would that be defensible in a employment court (or whatever it is called).
Sorry I do not want to go off topic I would like to see the sexes treated equally thats all (especially by women).

English is not my first language and maybe I didn't word it as well as I should. I 'm not going in more discussion about make up neither I want to go in another women bashing which seems to be a popular sport around here. The fact is women here wear more make up than let's say women in Denmark. Schools here also tend to be harder to get to for various reasons and women still tend to do more parenting. Combine hair, make up, clothes with getting kids to school and it suddenly becomes a lot more hassle. I don't live into a city but cycling to work for me would be relatively easy, getting kids to school on a bike would be extremely dangerous crossing a busy 100kph road. And getting to the school bus is quite a bit of hassle.

I don't appreciate when being lazy is levelled at people straight away. Most people look at different options they have and pick the most convenient one.

Btw just to ad, I don't wear much make up but if I do anything more than walking even sun cream on the face annoys me. I take off even my wedding ring when cycling or running.

CramCycle · 11-06-2019 1:38pm

I have to agree with meeeeh, living with different women over the years, there is definitely a culture in certain job types that maybe unknowingly expect more make up, it would definitely be my experience that in certain jobs, there is a clear level of more make up. Ironically, it would appear not to be an attractiveness thing, but more an expectation, that you would have to be seen to be wearing make up, rather than expectation to be looking yourself, I think this is the confusing thing for those people who either don't have too or don't see the point to get. There are other jobs where the bare minimum is applied, to the point where those who have nothing to do with using make up would not even notice. There are many people I can see no benefit to wearing make up but that is due to being brought up in an environment, like most Irish males where we seem to believe the application of make up is solely to make a female (typically), more attractive. In fact, and people may call me out on this, experience in later life has taught me that many of these women don't actually care about this factor at all, it is a look and style that is, in their view, and maybe in the view of others around them, that is expected of them. It is not much different than I would be expected to not wear ties or loose/open clothing, as doing so for my job, makes me appear unprofessional, whereas in other jobs, this maybe a requirement for the day. Not agreeing with it or disagreeing with it, and for many jobs its not required, it is just the done thing and people like group think. There are jobs where it is a requirement, either make up, or clean shaven etc. Typically front of house jobs. Again I don't agree but it is what it is.

On the same note, I know people who wouldn't leave the house without make up, even if its just down to the local Aldi where they will be 5 minutes, and the chances of meeting anyone they know is slim. I wouldn't give a f&*^ but for some people there appearance is part of them, and it is important, this applies to make up, or dressing a certain way. You could say not giving a f&^* is part of my appearance, maybe I wouldn't go out if I was too well dressed, I know I feel uncomfortable in formal footwear with plain socks, people are weird.

JMcL · 11-06-2019 2:45pm

silverharp wrote: »

does twitter count as Journalism :pac:

Well it passes as American foreign policy these days, so I don't see why not

voluntary · 11-06-2019 3:18pm

lol ladies managed to transform a cycling thread into a make up thread

Seth Brundle · 11-06-2019 3:51pm

voluntary wrote: »

lol ladies managed to transform a cycling thread into a make up thread

...but they can go together...

Rechuchote · 11-06-2019 4:04pm

All brothers and sisters of the road…

Seth Brundle · 13-06-2019 11:38am

‘Low hanging fruit’ in road safety has been taken, conference hears
Experts say new strategy 2021-2030 will have to focus on walking, cycling and urban roads

The “low hanging fruit” in terms of measures to increase road safety has all been taken and a new strategy will have to consider best practises from around the world, including addressing urban deaths, walking and cycling.

That is according to the Road Safety Authority (RSA) which held its annual international conference in Dublin Castle on Thursday. The conference heard road deaths here had fallen from 279 10 years ago to 146 last year, or 30 deaths per million ahead of the EU average of about 50 deaths per million.

Opening the conference, RSA chairwoman Liz O’Donnell said the Government and the authority had come under criticism for “destroying rural Ireland” after taking action to end the practice of drink driving, excessive speed and seat belt wearing among other measures. But she said the authority “made no apology for it.”

Ms O’Donnell said a new road safety strategy to cover the years 2021 to 2030 would include extensive local and regional public consultation to consider how the reduction in road deaths could be improved. Ms O’Donnell said she believed that measures to ensure the safety of cyclists and walkers would feature strongly in the forthcoming strategy.

Assistant Garda Commissioner David Sheahan said the “low hanging fruit is all gone” in terms of the most obvious measures for enforcement and the future strategy would have to look at international best practice.

Rechuchote · 13-06-2019 1:01pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

‘Low hanging fruit’ in road safety has been taken, conference hears
Experts say new strategy 2021-2030 will have to focus on walking, cycling and urban roads

Sets timer. Holds breath.

CramCycle · 13-06-2019 1:12pm

Mother of God, "the future strategy would have to look at international best practice.". Nice own goal, basically "we have been doing what we felt / thought was right but had no evidence to back it up", which looking around, actually explains alot about the state of Irish infrastructure.

Pinch Flat · 13-06-2019 1:14pm

They could start by stopping just asking asking people to lash on hi vis when out walking and cycling and hope for the best. Major effort needs to be to reeducate drivers.

Duckjob · 13-06-2019 4:50pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

‘Low hanging fruit’ in road safety has been taken, conference hears
Experts say new strategy 2021-2030 will have to focus on walking, cycling and urban roads

Any approach should work better than the governments current strategy on pursuading people to cycle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBSxAAJ_2SI

tomasrojo · 13-06-2019 8:31pm

I have a sinking feeling that the "international best practices" they have in mind might be from the UK, USA, Canada, and, most worrying, Australia and NZ.

Journalism and cycling

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