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Camera in the pub toilets?

1235

Comments

  • #122
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,299 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    antodeco wrote:
    @ILoveYourVibes, can you explain why you have contradicted yourself several times in this thread? You originally said that only a registered security person can install CCTV. You also told several people that you cannot install CCTV on your own property. Later in the thread, you then mentioned the opposite to this.


    If the CCTV is for security it needs to be installed by a registered secretary firm. If it's not for security then anyone can install it. A CCTV system you install yourself to keep track of the dog on your own property can be used in court if it happens to record a crime.
    Courts have no interest who installs CCTV.

    The law stating only redgestered people with Garda clearance can install CCTV, alarms, security gates etc is to keep the criminal world out of these business. There was a time when your local locksmith could have been an ex con or staff running security firms part of organised crime.


  • #123
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,905 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    I have CCTV installed at home, one of the cameras that is aimed down the side of the house, also captures video of cars driving up the road.

    When a neighbour was burgled a few months ago, the Guards came looking for my footage that captured the same car driving up and down the road half a dozen times in 10 minutes. They didn't ask anything about who installed the system, or who the data controller was.


  • #124
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    If the CCTV is for security it needs to be installed by a registered secretary firm. If it's not for security then anyone can install it. A CCTV system you install yourself to keep track of the dog on your own property can be used in court if it happens to record a crime.
    Courts have no interest who installs CCTV.

    The law stating only redgestered people with Garda clearance can install CCTV, alarms, security gates etc is to keep the criminal world out of these business. There was a time when your local locksmith could have been an ex con or staff running security firms part of organised crime.

    But thats not what was originally asked. Several people asked could they install CCTV onto their own property, and were told absolutely 100% no way, illegal, and several bits of "statutes" were quoted, none referring to the questions asked by individuals. This differs to the last page or 2 of responses which seemed to in some way "loosen" the understanding of those statutes.

    I have no problem with people suggesting something, however, when telling multiple people it is "illegal" that you "100% cannot do that" or "I am right, the rest of you are wrong", (paraphrasing) then I have an issue with it. If the posts said "My understanding is X because of Y" perfectly fine. If the posted was simply executing a fortiori argument, that would be fine, but this assumption was clearly not the case


  • #125
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,299 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    antodeco wrote: »
    But thats not what was originally asked. Several people asked could they install CCTV onto their own property, and were told absolutely 100% no way, illegal, and several bits of "statutes" were quoted, none referring to the questions asked by individuals. This differs to the last page or 2 of responses which seemed to in some way "loosen" the understanding of those statutes.

    I have no problem with people suggesting something, however, when telling multiple people it is "illegal" that you "100% cannot do that" or "I am right, the rest of you are wrong", (paraphrasing) then I have an issue with it. If the posts said "My understanding is X because of Y" perfectly fine. If the posted was simply executing a fortiori argument, that would be fine, but this assumption was clearly not the case




    I'm agreeing with you. I never made claims that you can't install your own CCTV. That was @ILoveYourVibes


    @ILoveYourVibes is quoting a law that covers security cameras, locksmiths, security compainies & anyone involved with any type of security. They are perfectly correct if they are security cameras. You need a license.





    Not all CCTV is for security & obviously is totally exempt from the security laws.

    CCTV doesn't have to be for security


  • #126
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,905 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Not all CCTV is for security & obviously is totally exempt from the security laws.

    CCTV doesn't have to be for security

    So "if" my 7 camera home CCTV system is purely for the purpose of keeping an eye on the dog and checking what the weather is like at home, I don't need to put up a CCTV sign or have it checked by anyone.

    And if it happens to catch a burglar, the old dog watch cam would be perfectly admissible?


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  • #127
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,927 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I'm agreeing with you. I never made claims that you can't install your own CCTV. That was @ILoveYourVibes


    @ILoveYourVibes is quoting a law that covers security cameras, locksmiths, security compainies & anyone involved with any type of security. They are perfectly correct if they are security cameras. You need a license.





    Not all CCTV is for security & obviously is totally exempt from the security laws.

    CCTV doesn't have to be for security

    It is my understanding that a PSA licence is required for anybody working professionally in the security industry. So for somebody installing their CCTV the PSA are irrelevant. Where does the prohibition on somebody installing a CCTV system themselves in their own home for security reasons come from? surely that is the whole point of installing CCTV.


  • #128
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,299 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    DrPhilG wrote:
    So "if" my 7 camera home CCTV system is purely for the purpose of keeping an eye on the dog and checking what the weather is like at home, I don't need to put up a CCTV sign or have it checked by anyone.

    I'm not a legal expert, barstool or otherwise so I can't answer that with certainly. I do know that a dashcam is a CCTV and technically my van should have a sticker on the window telling motorists whizzing by at 100 km that I have CCTV. I would guess that your CCTV at home, security or not should display that you have CCTV.
    DrPhilG wrote:
    And if it happens to catch a burglar, the old dog watch cam would be perfectly admissible?


    I would think so. The tight regulations on anything to do with security is to stop criminals getting involved in security. I can't see a judge the slightest bit interested in the difference between you fitting the CCTV or a registered company. It's what is on the tape that matters. The information /data on the recording isn't illegally collected imo


  • #129
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    So "if" my 7 camera home CCTV system is purely for the purpose of keeping an eye on the dog and checking what the weather is like at home, I don't need to put up a CCTV sign or have it checked by anyone.

    And if it happens to catch a burglar, the old dog watch cam would be perfectly admissible?

    If footage is original and not tampered with then no issues.


  • #130
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,299 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    ohnonotgmail wrote:
    It is my understanding that a PSA licence is required for anybody working professionally in the security industry. So for somebody installing their CCTV the PSA are irrelevant. Where does the prohibition on somebody installing a CCTV system themselves in their own home for security reasons come from? surely that is the whole point of installing CCTV.

    Many DIY people put up the same argument about doing restricted electric work in their own home. The reality is that it is illegal even for a qualified electrician but not a REC to work on the fuseboad in his own home. I'd imagine it's the same thing with security cameras


  • #131
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,927 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Many DIY people put up the same argument about doing restricted electric work in their own home. The reality is that it is illegal even for a qualified electrician but not a REC to work on the fuseboad in his own home. I'd imagine it's the same thing with security cameras

    that doesn't really answer my question. And its not a great analogy.


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  • #132
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,905 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    If footage is original and not tampered with then no issues.

    That's what made me giggle when I did provide footage to the police of the car involved in the neighbour's burglary.

    I had this mental image (from watching too much CSI) of a Garda tech arriving and downloading the file directly from the recorder, bagging and certifying it to protect the chain of evidence etc etc.

    Nope, a standard Guard arrived and assumed that I would already have downloaded the data. She had no USB etc with her, had no idea how to even download the data if needed.

    In the end she gave up and asked me to download it myself and drop it through the letter box at the station!


  • #133
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,856 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Perfectly legal. Supermacs have them in their toilets for over 20 years. The cameras have saved them or their insurance hundreds of thousands over the decades. Google CCTV in supermacs toilets. There was a court case in 2004 about a false claim & he was caught out by the CCTV.

    Cameras in the toilets may be legal as long as they don't catch sight of your flute. If there's a flute in the footage, then bad pub/hotel/Supermacs.


  • #134
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Cameras in the toilets may be legal as long as they don't catch sight of your flute. If there's a flute in the footage, then bad pub/hotel/Supermacs.

    Just make sure to wave it around first if you're looking for a bit of compo so ;)


  • #135
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,856 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Deebles McBeebles wrote: »
    Just make sure to wave it around first if you're looking for a bit of compo so ;)

    It would be a fairly miserable wave given the size of it. No chance of doing the helicopter.


  • #136
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,299 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    ohnonotgmail wrote:
    that doesn't really answer my question. And its not a great analogy.


    I don't know the answer to your question. All I can say is that it does seem that it's illegal for the homeowner to install a SECURITY CCTV system as these are regulated. There is nothing stopping a homeowner from installing A (non security) CCTV system

    I actually thought the analogy was perfect as certain electric works are restricted in the same way as anything related to security is restricted


  • #137
    Force Carrier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Cameras in the toilets may be legal as long as they don't catch sight of your flute. If there's a flute in the footage, then bad pub/hotel/Supermacs.

    Some of us would need a wide angle camera.


  • #138
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,927 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I don't know the answer to your question. All I can say is that it does seem that it's illegal for the homeowner to install a SECURITY CCTV system as these are regulated. There is nothing stopping a homeowner from installing A (non security) CCTV system

    I actually thought the analogy was perfect as certain electric works are restricted in the same way as anything related to security is restricted

    But as i said the regulation is primarily around the people in the industry and their conduct.


  • #139
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,856 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Force Carrier wrote: »
    Some of us would need a wide angle camera.

    And more would need a zoom lens #micropenis


  • #140
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,299 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    But as i said the regulation is primarily around the people in the industry and their conduct.


    Unless you can find something in the legislation distinguishing the difference between a commercial company & a DIY homeowner then I think it's safe to assume that homeowners can't install security systems but can install CCTV for any other purpose


  • #141
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,927 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Unless you can find something in the legislation distinguishing the difference between a commercial company & a DIY homeowner then I think it's safe to assume that homeowners can't install security systems but can install CCTV for any other purpose

    I dont think that is a safe assumption at all. The PSA is for the security industry. Some guy installing cctv on his own property is not part of the security industry.


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  • #142
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,299 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I dont think that is a safe assumption at all. The PSA is for the security industry. Some guy installing cctv on his own property is not part of the security industry.




    A REC is part of the electrical industry yet some guy working on a fuseboard in his own home can go to jail for doing so.


    I don't see why you wont let it go? You can install a CCTV in your own home so long as you don't call it a security system.


  • #143
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,927 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    A REC is part of the electrical industry yet some guy working on a fuseboard in his own home can go to jail for doing so.


    I don't see why you wont let it go? You can install a CCTV in your own home so long as you don't call it a security system.

    Because it is complete nonsense that you cannot substantiate.


  • #144
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,299 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Because it is complete nonsense that you cannot substantiate.




    :pac::pac::pac::pac:


    All you have said is "Oh no it isn't". No links nothing just opinion. You can't even provide anything in the legislation that remotely suggests that this only aimed at the commercial sector. I'm open on this but without the legislation making it clear that the law only applies to a commercial person then it's defiantly not nonsense



    I'll leave you to it. You are arguing for the sake of arguing. There is absolutely nothing in the legislation stopping you from installing CCTV. Arguing that you want to call it security CCTV & still be able to install it is really someone with too much time on their hands.
    Enjoy the rest of your day :)


  • #145
    Pauliedragon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,527 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    I've noticed lately a lot of pubs have cameras in the toilets. Doesn't bother me but I'd have thought it would be illegal.


  • #146
    Buttons_4me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 ✭Buttons_4me


    Pauliedragon wrote: »
    I've noticed lately a lot of pubs have cameras in the toilets. Doesn't bother me but I'd have thought it would be illegal.

    What pubs have camera's in the toilets?


  • #147
    The Tetrarch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    Drink more. You won't notice them.


  • #148
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    It's to stop people making bogey personal injuries for most part
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #149
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Luckily most late bars in city have those guys in bathroom who make sure no dodgy stuff or drug deals happen there so no need for cameras.;)


  • #150
    con747
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,329 ✭✭✭con747


    Pauliedragon wrote: »
    I've noticed lately a lot of pubs have cameras in the toilets. Doesn't bother me but I'd have thought it would be illegal.

    A lot of threads on this, https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=2057985750

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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  • #151
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    cameras by the sink, not allowed in a cubicle afaik


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