Camera in the pub toilets?

Pauliedragon

I was in the pub today and noticed a camera in the toilets. To give context it was above the urinal and there was a piece of wood next to it which I assume was to block it from looking at the urinal so it was facing the sinks which are opposite the urinals. Surely this is illegal no?

Phileas Frog

Berties_Horse wrote: »

Completely illegal.

Under what statue?

Miike

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Under what statue?

The statue of Liberty. She has no patience for it.

Erik Shun

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Under what statue?

Under the one of James Connolly in O'Connell Street....this is not what the heroes of 1916 died for !

Bikerman2019

No, quite legal as long as it has a legitimate purpose. Like catching scammers.


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dad-who-faked-fall-in-supermacs-faces-sentence-26014498.html


https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1138562556274322

TheValeyard

Miike wrote: »

The statue of Liberty. She has no patience for it.

Yeah she had enough of that after Ghostbusters II.

I know of a few pubs which have cameras in toilets for many years and one recent opened one which has them so it must be above board.

freshpopcorn

It would depend on where it's focused!

OldMrBrennan83

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It would depend on where it's focused!

It'd want good focus for a lot of us.

gogo

Article in the paper today with Pat McDonagh, Supermac’s have camera’s in all toilets to prevent claims ... stated rather matter of fact so obviously not an issue..

_Brian

It’s really common and perfectly legal to record public spaces in toilets.

Pauliedragon

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It would depend on where it's focused!

Ya I'm not fussed to be honest it was focused on the sinks my days of doing lines in the jacks are well behind me I was just curious. It was focused on the sinks it seems which are oppisite the urinals. I do know when I worked in pubs in OZ it would be a big no no.

Del2005

gogo wrote: »

Article in the paper today with Pat McDonagh, Supermac’s have camera’s in all toilets to prevent claims ... stated rather matter of fact so obviously not an issue..

He had the infamous video of a person throwing water on the floor to get a claim. Saved him, and obviously a lot of others, loads of money because of it.

ILoveYourVibes

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I was in the pub today and noticed a camera in the toilets. To give context it was above the urinal and there was a piece of wood next to it which I assume was to block it from looking at the urinal so it was facing the sinks which are opposite the urinals. Surely this is illegal no?

The local authority undertakes role as data controller and all heightened obligations and caveats.

It has to be approved by guards and the local authority. They must act accordingly.

Things like dash cams can infringe privacy law. Because people with them are collecting data they become 'data controllers'. And as a data controller you have obligations and conduct etc.



Certain CCTV that is unverified by local authority may not be admissible in court. As it could be argued it has not been obtained fairly. So they are open to legal challenge.


Same with dash cam stuff.

And yes there are lots of CCTVs without authority around the country.

There are certain community schemes at one point local authorities didn't want to act as data controllers for. So they had to be re-verified by a policing committee.

ILoveYourVibes

Also data protectors have to obtain it fairly ...give a sign saying this is a CCTV verified by yada yada ..if there is no sign even if there is a crime there is a chance it won't be admissible.

All this is data protection. Plus the data controller (local authority) has to have everything above board. Which is why loads of them don't want to act as data controllers liability.

cj maxx

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I was in the pub today and noticed a camera in the toilets. To give context it was above the urinal and there was a piece of wood next to it which I assume was to block it from looking at the urinal so it was facing the sinks which are opposite the urinals. Surely this is illegal no?

I would have thought that but cameras are everywhere

Pauliedragon

Christs sake I thought the one place I could scratch meself in peace was the jacks and I cant even do that now without someone looking at me. The ballsack needs adjusting sometimes and the toilet is the place to do it and now theres a camera on me. The world is mad.

ILoveYourVibes

Basically you get people putting their own CCTV up and you can ...but what is the point? You can't use it.

ILoveYourVibes

cjmc wrote: »

I would have thought that but cameras are everywhere

There are and its not an issue just get them verified by a local authority and installed by a registered installer.


Even getting one installed on your own property you need to use a registered installer.

You have to have a license to install these things.


Since a pub i gather would do it alone THEY would be undertaking a role as data controller ..and must be in compliance.

freshpopcorn

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Christs sake I thought the one place I could scratch meself in peace was the jacks and I cant even do that now without someone looking at me. The ballsack needs adjusting sometimes and the toilet is the place to do it and now theres a camera on me. The world is mad.

They've being cameras in pub/club/etc toilets since the mid 2000's!

ILoveYourVibes

I remember there was a watchdog in the UK i know not Ireland etc but they actually found MOST CCTV cameras are actually totally illegal. Mostly because the people didn't have a clue.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/most-cctv-cameras-are-illegal-watchdog-claims-6586943.html

Scary.

Happens here too.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/supermarket-broke-law-over-cctv-monitoring-in-canteen-1.2693437?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fsupermarket-broke-law-over-cctv-monitoring-in-canteen-1.2693437

It was CCTV in a supermarket canteen they were using it illegally. Obviously they just didn't understand.

n97 mini

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

There are and its not an issue just get them verified by a local authority and installed by a registered installer.

I have CCTV covering my property. Are you saying I have to get the County Council (or anyone else) to "verify" it?

ILoveYourVibes

n97 mini wrote: »

I have CCTV covering my property. Are you saying I have to get the County Council (or anyone else) to "verify" it?

Nope ..but you would be better off doing so.

You are the data controller and you have to be aware of legal obligations and be compliant or its illegal.

Obv you had it done by a licensed installer etc . ..

You do need a written cctv policy in place visible like ..not just saying cctc is there but a policy compliant with data protection .

You have to say why you have it the identity of the data controller ( YOU) any third parties etc. How someone can ask for access.

ILoveYourVibes

Also you can't put anything from CCTV online.

In accordance with the Data Protection Acts 1988 & 2003, a data controller can only process the personal data of an individual with their consent or in a limited number of circumstances listed under Section 8 of the Data Protection Acts. Section 2 B of the Data Protection Acts impose further restrictions on the processing of 'sensitive' personal data. The commission or alleged commission of an offence is considered to be 'sensitive' personal data.

Only law enforcement can.


You would have to get permission from the people who were in the film.

Strumms

It’s clearly taking the piss.

Hammer89

I used to think there was a painting of a giant dick on the ceiling above the urinal in my local, but it's a mirror.

ILoveYourVibes

Strumms wrote: »

It’s clearly taking the piss.

Toilet Humor.

Sonny noggs

Hammer89 wrote: »

I used to think there was a painting of a giant dick on the ceiling above the urinal in my local, but it's a mirror.

One of those magnifying ones by the sounds of it.

Sonny noggs

OP, leave a ‘present’ as a dirty protest.

Graham

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The local authority undertakes role as data controller and all heightened obligations and caveats.

It has to be approved by guards and the local authority. They must act

What makes you think the local authority takes on the role of data controller for CCTV in a pub toilet?

Pauliedragon

Sonny noggs wrote: »

OP, leave a ‘present’ as a dirty protest.

A quick dump in the sink might teach them a lesson

Fr_Dougal

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

There are and its not an issue just get them verified by a local authority and installed by a registered installer.


Even getting one installed on your own property you need to use a registered installer.

You have to have a license to install these things.


Since a pub i gather would do it alone THEY would be undertaking a role as data controller ..and must be in compliance.

Can you quote the legislation that states a cctv must be installed by a registered installer?

I would be quite confident you’re very wrong in this regard.

punisher5112

Under gdpr request your footage at time you were in and give date also.

angel eyes 2012

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Nope ..but you would be better off doing so.

You are the data controller and you have to be aware of legal obligations and be compliant or its illegal.

Obv you had it done by a licensed installer etc . ..

You do need a written cctv policy in place visible like ..not just saying cctc is there but a policy compliant with data protection .

You have to say why you have it the identity of the data controller ( YOU) any third parties etc. How someone can ask for access.

Incorrect. Data Protection legislation does not apply in domestic situations. Private individual households may set up a CCTV system so it captures only images within the boundary of a private domestic property (including the garden). If the cameras capture external footage involving personal data, the householder becomes a data controller and data protection obligations then apply.

punisher5112

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

There are and its not an issue just get them verified by a local authority and installed by a registered installer.


Even getting one installed on your own property you need to use a registered installer.

You have to have a license to install these things.


Since a pub i gather would do it alone THEY would be undertaking a role as data controller ..and must be in compliance.

No you don't, it's actually similar miss conception to getting auto gates fitted.

If fitted for security reasons they must be fitted by a pro but if used for access no need.

CCTV can be fitted by anyone once they aren't been paid otherwise if paid it must be a licenced installer.

judeboy101

What about those video door bell thingys?

Fann Linn

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Can you quote the legislation that states a cctv must be installed by a registered installer?...

I would be quite confident you’re very wrong in this regard.

.....and that a Local Authority acts as data controller for a private commercial premises.

decky1

ah sure wet a piece of loo roll and stick it in the lens, job done.

MugsGame

Pauliedragon wrote: »

A quick dump in the sink might teach them a lesson

If you want to do the uh dirt and you're in a hurry.

punisher5112

judeboy101 wrote: »

What about those video door bell thingys?

What the question....

You are allowed to fit them

OldMrBrennan83

I've a Yi camera pointing out the upstairs window and nobody "installed" it for me. Already proved invaluable.

Fann Linn

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The local authority undertakes role as data controller and all heightened obligations and caveats.

It has to be approved by guards and the local authority. They must act accordingly.

Things like dash cams can infringe privacy law. Because people with them are collecting data they become 'data controllers'. And as a data controller you have obligations and conduct etc.



Certain CCTV that is unverified by local authority may not be admissible in court. As it could be argued it has not been obtained fairly. So they are open to legal challenge.


Same with dash cam stuff.

And yes there are lots of CCTVs without authority around the country.

There are certain community schemes at one point local authorities didn't want to act as data controllers for. So they had to be re-verified by a policing committee.

I think a lot of the above is bull. Lots of garages, shops and other commercial premises have cctv installed and these business's are well able to present footage as evidence without local authority involvement.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Nope ..but you would be better off doing so.

You are the data controller and you have to be aware of legal obligations and be compliant or its illegal.

Obv you had it done by a licensed installer etc . ..

You do need a written cctv policy in place visible like ..not just saying cctc is there but a policy compliant with data protection .

You have to say why you have it the identity of the data controller ( YOU) any third parties etc. How someone can ask for access.

None of this applies to cctv in a private house, you can do what you want in your home.

You can of course install your own system also, all new smart home systems are designed for self install.

judeboy101

punisher5112 wrote: »

What the question....

You are allowed to fit them

They usually capture people walking by a house on public road/footpaths etc? Is that subject to gdpr etc

Sleeper12

Pauliedragon wrote:

I was in the pub today and noticed a camera in the toilets. To give context it was above the urinal and there was a piece of wood next to it which I assume was to block it from looking at the urinal so it was facing the sinks which are opposite the urinals. Surely this is illegal no?

Perfectly legal. Supermacs have them in their toilets for over 20 years. The cameras have saved them or their insurance hundreds of thousands over the decades. Google CCTV in supermacs toilets. There was a court case in 2004 about a false claim & he was caught out by the CCTV.

ILoveYourVibes

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Can you quote the legislation that states a cctv must be installed by a registered installer?

I would be quite confident you’re very wrong in this regard.

Im right.

Private Security Services Act 2004.

PART 2

Private Security Authority

Private Security Authority.
6.—(1) There stands established a body to be known as the Private Security Authority, or in the Irish language An tÚdarás Slándála Príobháidí, to perform the functions conferred on it by this Act.

(2) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1), the Authority may, and where required by this Act shall—


(a) grant and renew licences,

(b) issue identity cards to licensees,

(c) where appropriate, suspend or revoke licences,

(d) establish and maintain a register of licensees,

(e) specify standards to be observed in the provision of security services by licensees or particular categories of licensees,

(f) specify qualifications or any other requirements (including requirements as to training) for the grant of licences,

(g) undertake or commission, or collaborate or assist in, research projects and activities relating to the provision of security services, including the compilation of statistical information and other records necessary for the proper planning, development and provision of those services,

(h) investigate any security services being provided by any person,

(i) establish and administer a system of investigation and adjudication of complaints against licensees,

(j) monitor the provision of private security services generally,

(k) liaise with licensees with a view to keeping itself informed of any matters requiring its attention,

(l) advise the Minister on any matter relating to its functions,

(m) keep the Minister informed of developments in relation to the provision of security services by licensees or particular categories of licensees and assist him or her in coordinating and developing policy in that regard.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/act/23/enacted/en/print#part4

“installer of security equipment” means a person—


(a) who for remuneration installs, maintains, repairs or services electronic or other devices designed, constructed or adapted to give warning of or monitor or record unauthorised entry or misconduct on or in the vicinity of premises, and

Amendment of section 2 of Act of 2004. (Civil law miscellaneous provisions act 2011)

‘installer of security equipment’ means a person who—

(a) in the course of a business, trade or profession, installs, maintains, repairs or services electronic or other devices designed, constructed or adapted to give warning of, or monitor or record unauthorised entry or misconduct on or in the vicinity of premises,

(b) in the course of a business, trade or profession, installs, maintains, repairs or services electronic or other devices designed, constructed or adapted to control or record access by persons or vehicles to or within premises by means of—

(i) personal identity verification, including by means of biometrics,

(ii) vehicle identification,

(iii) numerical codes,

(iv) alphabetical codes,

(v) access or other card management, or

(vi) electronic key management,

or any combination of such means,

MOST IMPORTANTLY

Prohibition of unlicensed security service.


37.—(1) A private security employer or an individual referred to in any of the paragraphs of the definition of “security service” in section 2 (1) shall not, on or after the commencement of the paragraph concerned, provide a security service or hold himself or herself out or represent himself or herself by—


(a) advertisement,


(b) displaying any shield, card or other object purporting to indicate that he or she is a licensee, or


(c) otherwise,


as available to provide such a service unless the individual is the holder of a licence under this Act authorising him or her to provide that particular service.

Sonny noggs

Another thread ruined today by some ‘barstool lawyer’ talking sh1te about CCTV and GDPR...

ILoveYourVibes

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Another thread ruined today by some ‘barstool lawyer’ talking sh1te about CCTV and GDPR...

I am quoting actual statutes ..WITH LINKS TO THE GOVT WEBSITES

I am totally right.

Why am i even listening to you idiots?

antodeco

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Another thread ruined today by some ‘barstool lawyer’ talking sh1te about CCTV and GDPR...

Funnily enough, I have CCTV all over my premises, installed by me. The DPC advised me that once it was only being used for something specific, IE, a legitimate business reason, IE, prevention of crime, totally and 100% above board. I've even had some of my CCTV used by the Gardai in relation to a crime.

All the DPC and Gardai have ever told me was basically once I have it secured (password protected server), and not excessively recording areas away from my property (besides for what is "picked up" due to the nature of the lens), all is above board.

Force Carrier

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Another thread ruined today by some ‘barstool lawyer’ talking sh1te about CCTV and GDPR...

All that was needed was a joke about needing a wide angle digital camera if I was there and then close the thread.

Graham

Quoting statute often misses understanding/interpretation/context.