Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Buer · 26-05-2019 10:47am

Wegians89 wrote:

Would be very happy if the back row that started yesterday for Leinster was used by Ireland in the World Cup. Would be very hard to leave ruddock out of the Irish squad.

It will be but I think Murphy will get the last spot. He gives genuine cover across the three spots which is critical in the reduced squad size.

I can't help but think politics will also be a factor. The IRFU encouraged him to move north to benefit his international ambitions. If they turned around and left him out of a 31 man squad it wouldn't be a great advert for encouraging similar moves.

I also still wouldn't rule out SOB. The loyalty with Schmidt is strong although I think it would be a terrible move.

Hopefully the 5 back row players are POM, Stander, VDF, Conan and Ruddock with a lock providing some blindside cover.

salmocab · 26-05-2019 10:48am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Based on previous world cups he has a fair chance of getting called up so probably would continue to train with Leinster or an extended Ireland camp

I would think once they travel the rest go to provinces as they’ll need game time

Jump_In_Jack · 26-05-2019 10:50am

Anyone care to predict our 45+ RWC training squad to be announced in the next day or two?

Mine’s as follows:
F: R. Kearney, Larmour, O’Halloran,
W: Earls, Stockdale, Conway, Sweetnam, D. Kearney, Matt Healy,
C: Ringrose, Aki, Henshaw, C Farrell, McCloskey, T Farrell,
O: Sexton, Carbery, Carty, R. Byrne,
S: Murray, Marmion, Cooney, McGrath,
N8: Stander, Conan, Max Deegan,
OF: Van der Flier, Jordi Murphy, O’Brien,
BF: O’Mahony, Ruddock, Sean Reidy,
L: James Ryan, Henderson, Toner, Beirne, Dillane, Jean Kleyn,
PT: Furlong, John Ryan, Porter,
H: Best, Cronin, Scannell, Herring,
PL: Healy, Kilcoyne, McGrath.

troyzer · 26-05-2019 10:55am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Anyone care to predict our 45+ RWC training squad to be announced in the next day or two?

Mine’s as follows:
F: R. Kearney, Larmour, O’Halloran,
W: Earls, Stockdale, Conway, Sweetnam, D. Kearney, Matt Healy,
C: Ringrose, Aki, Henshaw, C Farrell, McCloskey, T Farrell,
O: Sexton, Carbery, Carty, R. Byrne,
S: Murray, Marmion, Cooney, McGrath,
N8: Stander, Conan, Max Deegan,
OF: Van der Flier, Jordi Murphy, O’Brien,
BF: O’Mahony, Ruddock, Sean Reidy,
L: James Ryan, Henderson, Toner, Beirne, Dillane, Jean Kleyn,
PT: Furlong, John Ryan, Porter,
H: Best, Cronin, Scannell, Herring,
PL: Healy, Kilcoyne, McGrath.

A few weird choices there. Why does Matt Healy and Sean Reidy get in? TOH is firmly on the outside as well.

The Lost Sheep · 26-05-2019 10:57am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Anyone care to predict our 45+ RWC training squad to be announced in the next day or two?

Mine’s as follows:
F: R. Kearney, Larmour, O’Halloran,
W: Earls, Stockdale, Conway, Sweetnam, D. Kearney, Matt Healy,
C: Ringrose, Aki, Henshaw, C Farrell, McCloskey, T Farrell,
O: Sexton, Carbery, Carty, R. Byrne,
S: Murray, Marmion, Cooney, McGrath,
N8: Stander, Conan, Max Deegan,
OF: Van der Flier, Jordi Murphy, O’Brien,
BF: O’Mahony, Ruddock, Sean Reidy,
L: James Ryan, Henderson, Toner, Beirne, Dillane, Jean Kleyn,
PT: Furlong, John Ryan, Porter,
H: Best, Cronin, Scannell, Herring,
PL: Healy, Kilcoyne, McGrath.

M Healy, O Halloran, Reidy based on what? TOH should but never is really involved
Cant see Deegan there tbh

Jump_In_Jack · 26-05-2019 11:06am

troyzer wrote: »

A few weird choices there. Why does Matt Healy and Sean Reidy get in? TOH is firmly on the outside as well.

It gets difficult to pick 3 deep in a few positions, I’d pick those based on how I’d rate them and that they’ve been included in camps in the past.
Who would you replace those with?

troyzer · 26-05-2019 11:11am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

A few weird choices there. Why does Matt Healy and Sean Reidy get in? TOH is firmly on the outside as well.

It gets difficult to pick 3 deep in a few positions, I’d pick those based on how I’d rate them and that they’ve been included in camps in the past.
Who would you replace those with?

There are lots of better options. Instead of Healy, Reidy and TOH you could have McFadden, O'Donnell and Lowry. I don't think you need three dedicated full backs and blindsides. He needs training time with Beirne or Henderson at 6. Same with Conway and Henshaw at fullback. Addison will be there too if he's healthy.

Your squad in general is massive.

Bazzo · 26-05-2019 11:14am

troyzer wrote: »

There are lots of better options. Instead of Healy, Reidy and TOH you could have McFadden, O'Donnell and Lowry. I don't think you need three dedicated full backs and blindsides. He needs training time with Beirne or Henderson at 6. Same with Conway and Henshaw at fullback. Addison will be there too if he's healthy.

Your squad in general is massive.

McFadden has as much chance of the others of getting into a squad to be honest

Squidgy Black · 26-05-2019 11:15am

troyzer wrote: »

There are lots of better options. Instead of Healy, Reidy and TOH you could have McFadden, O'Donnell and Lowry. I don't think you need three dedicated full backs and blindsides. He needs training time with Beirne or Henderson at 6. Same with Conway and Henshaw at fullback. Addison will be there too if he's healthy.

Your squad in general is massive.

Addison's out for the season, will be fighting to get fit for the RWC. TOD is only back from a shoulder injury that he's been out with since January, I'd imagine JOD would be in the running.

RWC training squad is generally large, the Welsh and Scottish ones are 42 players.

troyzer · 26-05-2019 11:17am

Bazzo wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

There are lots of better options. Instead of Healy, Reidy and TOH you could have McFadden, O'Donnell and Lowry. I don't think you need three dedicated full backs and blindsides. He needs training time with Beirne or Henderson at 6. Same with Conway and Henshaw at fullback. Addison will be there too if he's healthy.

Your squad in general is massive.

McFadden has as much chance of the others of getting into a squad to be honest

Not a chance. McFadden is a rock solid performer and team mate. I'd be shocked if Matt Healy gets in ahead of him.

Jump_In_Jack · 26-05-2019 11:19am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

M Healy, O Halloran, Reidy based on what? TOH should but never is really involved
Cant see Deegan there tbh

Who would you prefer instead?
M Healy could be replaced for Barry Daly or Robert Baloucoune?
O’Halloran could be replaced by Mike Haley?
Sean Reidy could be replaced with one of Fineen Wycherley, Josh Murphy, Caelan Doris, Jack O’Donoghue, Paul Boyle, Nick Timoney?
Deegan could be replaced by Jack O’ Donoghue, or Paul Boyle?
There are younger less experienced players that look promising but would Schmidt be interested in Bolger’s at this stage,
The main reason for a 45 plus squad is so the main 31 have someone to run against, and perhaps guys that know the setup will be favoured, to make sure the training sessions go smoothly.

Squidgy Black · 26-05-2019 11:20am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Who would you prefer instead?
M Healy could be replaced for Barry Daly or Robert Baloucoune?
O’Halloran could be replaced by Mike Haley?
Sean Reidy could be replaced with one of Fineen Wycherley, Josh Murphy, Caelan Doris, Jack O’Donoghue, Paul Boyle, Nick Timoney?
Deegan could be replaced by Jack O’ Donoghue, or Paul Boyle?
There are younger less experienced players that look promising but would Schmidt be interested in Bolger’s at this stage,
The main reason for a 45 plus squad is so the main 31 have someone to run against, and perhaps guys that know the setup will be favoured, to make sure the training sessions go smoothly.

It won't be 45+, it'll be closer to 42 like all other sides. So there'll be 5 or 6 shaved from the side you've listed there anyways.

Jump_In_Jack · 26-05-2019 11:21am

troyzer wrote: »

Not a chance. McFadden is a rock solid performer and team mate. I'd be shocked if Matt Healy gets in ahead of him.

McFadden could be included but at the same time isn’t his ban going to go against him?

troyzer · 26-05-2019 11:22am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Not a chance. McFadden is a rock solid performer and team mate. I'd be shocked if Matt Healy gets in ahead of him.

McFadden could be included but at the same time isn’t his ban going to go against him?

Not really. He'll be back by the warm ups anyway. Much of the training squad is about opposition simulation and leadership. McFadden knows he's probably not going to go but he can still be incredibly valuable with his experience in camp.

What does Healy bring?

Jump_In_Jack · 26-05-2019 11:24am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

It won't be 45+, it'll be closer to 42 like all other sides. So there'll be 5 or 6 shaved from the side you've listed there anyways.

I’m just going by the recent article with Nucifora where it said that a preliminary training squad of 45+ would be announced on Monday or Tuesday.

If a squad of 42 is selected then I’d imagine it would trim the likes that were mentioned in the past few posts out of the squad.

Jump_In_Jack · 26-05-2019 11:26am

troyzer wrote: »

Not really. He'll be back by the warm ups anyway. Much of the training squad is about opposition simulation and leadership. McFadden knows he's probably not going to go but he can still be incredibly valuable with his experience in camp.

What does Healy bring?

I’d heard he was going to miss some of the warm-ups, perhaps only the first one though so that wouldn’t be an issue if it was only that.

I personally rate Matt Healy though, I think he’s the closest we have to an Earls type of winger.

Squidgy Black · 26-05-2019 11:28am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I’m just going by the recent article with Nucifora where it said that a preliminary training squad of 45+ would be announced on Monday or Tuesday.

If a squad of 42 is selected then I’d imagine it would trim the likes that were mentioned in the past few posts out of the squad.

The only way I can see it being 45+ is if they're including the injured players in the overall squad.

troyzer · 26-05-2019 11:28am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Not really. He'll be back by the warm ups anyway. Much of the training squad is about opposition simulation and leadership. McFadden knows he's probably not going to go but he can still be incredibly valuable with his experience in camp.

What does Healy bring?

I’d heard he was going to miss some of the warm-ups, perhaps only the first one though so that wouldn’t be an issue if it was only that.

I personally rate Matt Healy though, I think he’s the closest we have to an Earls type of winger.

Right but he's not going to go to the world cup. So it's not about his selection potential.

Jump_In_Jack · 26-05-2019 11:32am

This is the article from Gerry Thornley in the Irish Times interviewing David Nucifora, Thornley states in the opening piece that it will be a 45+ preliminary training squad that will be announced on Monday or Tuesday.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/nucifora-sets-ireland-target-of-at-least-a-semi-final-in-rugby-world-cup-1.3902350?mode=amp

Bazzo · 26-05-2019 11:35am

troyzer wrote: »

Not a chance. McFadden is a rock solid performer and team mate. I'd be shocked if Matt Healy gets in ahead of him.

I didn't say Healy gets in ahead of him(though that's all a matter of opinion anyway)

Wegians89 · 26-05-2019 12:25pm

Healy kilcoyne McGrath
Best scannell croinin herrring
Furlong porter Ryan bealham

Ryan Henderson Toner roux dillane beirne

Pom ruddock
Vdf Murphy sob
Stander Conan deegan

Murray marmion cooney McGrath/blade
Sexton carbery carty Byrne

Ringrose bundee henshaw C Farrell T Farrell

Stockdale earls larmour Kearney Conway Addison? Sweetnam

troyzer · 26-05-2019 2:03pm

O'Brien out for the world cup.

A predictable but tragic end to a great Irish test career. I can't see him getting selected again when he's in England.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1132648024809852933?s=09

LuckyGent88 · 26-05-2019 2:05pm

Desperate for SOB. A good career ruined by injuries. Could have been an all time great.

Burkie1203 · 26-05-2019 2:07pm

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Desperate for SOB. A good career ruined by injuries. Could have been an all time great.

Out for 6 months. Thats a sickener. Wonder would he consider retirement

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1132648095399833600?s=19

troyzer · 26-05-2019 2:08pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Desperate for SOB. A good career ruined by injuries. Could have been an all time great.

Out for 6 months. Thats a sickener. Wonder would he consider retirement

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1132648095399833600?s=19

And turn down a huge pay day?

Exclamation Marc · 26-05-2019 2:14pm

troyzer wrote: »

And turn down a huge pay day?

Agreed. Not a hope he'll retire unless he's ruled out for the full contract in which case he'd receive an insurance payout. Or I guess, if there's a carve out in the contract that LI can bail on it, maybe he'll be forced to.

He'll be back hopefully.

Eod100 · 26-05-2019 2:15pm

That's a dose. More and more any player that can bow out from Ireland on their own terms is fairly lucky.

Former Former · 26-05-2019 4:17pm

That's awful for him. Denied his Leinster swansong and now his Ireland finale too

It also leaves us very light at openside.

Probably seals a place on the plane for Jordi.

thomond2006 · 26-05-2019 5:26pm

That's really awful news. Unfortunately some of Irish rugby's great players don't get the high profile exit that the likes of BOD or Hayes enjoyed.

The Rape of Lucretia · 26-05-2019 7:16pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

That's really awful news. Unfortunately some of Irish rugby's great players don't get the high profile exit that the likes of BOD or Hayes enjoyed.

BOD ascended to eternal glory with a flag that rose out of sight into the heavens.

But Hayes??? When and what was that.

Burkie1203 · 26-05-2019 9:23pm

troyzer wrote: »

And turn down a huge pay day?

Might be one Op too far. Just wonder if he might decide to just get himself right and enjoy life.

Andy Dunne spoke on newstalk today about this. Each Op just takes that little bit away. LI might push for him to go over as they try to reconnect with the diaspora over there

Dunne also reckons Conan is now the best 8 we have by a distance and needs to be our 8 going into RWC. He also floated the idea of Beirne at 6

26-05-2019 9:32pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

He also floated the idea of Beirne at 6

In the real world does anyone thing POM won't start against Scotland and Japan?

Faugheen · 26-05-2019 10:55pm

JJJackal wrote: »

I agree that Bowe, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, O'Connell and Heaslip were some of our best players ever.

However, would you prefer the younger replacements stockdale, two of henshaw, ringrose and aki, james ryan and stander or a pre-retirement yet still very good Bowe, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, O'Connell and Heaslip?

Heaslip over Stander every day of the week.

‘Pre-retirement’ Heaslip was nominated for World Player of the Year. We’ll never have a number 8 like him in our lifetime.

AbusesToilets · 26-05-2019 11:18pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Heaslip over Stander every day of the week.

‘Pre-retirement’ Heaslip was nominated for World Player of the Year. We’ll never have a number 8 like him in our lifetime.

Heaslip was much more.complete player, had it all. Shame that he wasn't used more with ball in hand as the years went on.

Neil3030 · 27-05-2019 2:56am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Heaslip was much more.complete player, had it all. Shame that he wasn't used more with ball in hand as the years went on.

Does he make it far past 30 in his career if he carries more though?

AbusesToilets · 27-05-2019 3:18am

Neil3030 wrote: »

Does he make it far past 30 in his career if he carries more though?

Dunno, I always thought he was more in mold of Keiran Read, good as a link man, as opposed to smashing it up.

It's one feature of Conan's game that I like, his footwork and effort to attack soft shoulders, instead of running into walls.

Jump_In_Jack · 27-05-2019 8:35am

Wegians89 wrote: »

Healy kilcoyne McGrath
Best scannell croinin herrring
Furlong porter Ryan bealham

Ryan Henderson Toner roux dillane beirne

Pom ruddock
Vdf Murphy sob
Stander Conan deegan

Murray marmion cooney McGrath/blade
Sexton carbery carty Byrne

Ringrose bundee henshaw C Farrell T Farrell

Stockdale earls larmour Kearney Conway Addison? Sweetnam

O'Brien being out now leaves a space, and Addison won't be able to train until later in the summer so probably won't be included in a preliminary squad which would leave another space.
I think Luke McGrath would get in before Caolin Blade.
I'd add another back-row and a centre,
so, someone like Sean Reidy or Jack O'Donoghue that can cover openside flanker,
and Stuart McCloskey as another centre.
I think Roux was sick with a virus recently, so if he's not fit to train I think they could take the opportunity to bring in Jean Kleyn to have a look at him.

bilston · 27-05-2019 9:06am

Stuart McCloskey has been excellent this season and must have a real chance of getting into the extended squad. I'd also throw a returned Luke Marshall and Eric O'Sullivan into the mix as possibilities, just from my own biased Ulster POV.

Jump_In_Jack · 27-05-2019 9:08am

bilston wrote: »

Stuart McCloskey has been excellent this season and must have a real chance of getting into the extended squad. I'd also throw a returned Luke Marshall and Eric O'Sullivan into the mix as possibilities, just from my own biased Ulster POV.

Certainly Eric O'Sullivan is a possibility, not so sure about Luke Marshall.

Clegg · 27-05-2019 10:02am

The Indo have published their top 50 rugby players in Ireland. All click bait of course, but it's still funny looking where they rank players. The top 5 is correct but the rest is a lot woolier. Beirne being in the top 10 for example is a very odd call.

Here's the top 20:

1. James Ryan
2. Cian Healy
3. Jack Conan
4. Keity Earls
5. Scott Fardy
6. Jacob Stockdale
7. Tadhg Beirne
8. Jack Carty
9. James Lowe
10. Jordan Larmour
11. Marcell Coetzee
12. CJ Stander
13. Devin Toner
14. Iain Henderson
15. Jonathan Sexton
16. Garry Ringrose
17. Sean Cronin
18. John Cooney
19. Tadhg Furlong
20. Peter O'Mahony

Exclamation Marc · 27-05-2019 10:03am

Clegg wrote: »

The Indo have published their top 50 rugby players in Ireland. All click bait of course, but it's still funny looking where they rank players. The top 5 is correct but the rest is a lot woolier. Beirne being in the top 10 for example is a very odd call.

Here's the top 20:

1. James Ryan
2. Cian Healy
3. Jack Conan
4. Keity Earls
5. Scott Fardy
6. Jacob Stockdale
7. Tadhg Beirne
8. Jack Carty
9. James Lowe
10. Jordan Larmour
11. Marcell Coetzee
12. CJ Stander
13. Devin Toner
14. Iain Henderson
15. Jonathan Sexton
16. Garry Ringrose
17. Sean Cronin
18. John Cooney
19. Tadhg Furlong
20. Peter O'Mahony

The World Player of the Year is behind 14 other players in Ireland alone - That alone shows the nonsense in this.

Former Former · 27-05-2019 10:06am

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/50-top-rugby-players-in-ireland-who-was-the-best-performer-this-season-38151290.html

Full list. It's only a bit of fun but Tadhg Beirne gets some amount of media hype that is totally unrelated to his actual performances.

Sexton at 15 is about right IMO

27-05-2019 10:18am

Can one of you joyless nerds explain this quote about James Ryan?

Joyless nerds might pummel one with stats but feeling is key; on his knees, twice; once carrying, making ground, another time tackling. Even when half the man, still some man.

He's only been on his knees twice...?

AdamD · 27-05-2019 10:26am

Deleted User wrote: »

Can one of you joyless nerds explain this quote about James Ryan?

He's only been on his knees twice...?

The funny thing is joyless nerds and their stats would confirm that James Ryan is the best player in the country by a distance.

baas baa · 27-05-2019 11:43am

Based purely on the past season Carty should be in the top 3.

Mr Tickle · 27-05-2019 12:48pm

https://www.the42.ie/connacht-trio-barbarian-squad-to-face-england-at-twickenham-4655688-May2019/

interesting that Callum Sheedy is named in the England team there. He's IQ through his parents.This is a non test match but it could be a sign of intent from England.
He's very young and would make a nice addition to one of the provinces if he could be tempted over.
That said, if he's probably on very good money at Bristol and may have no interest in representing Ireland.

Bazzo · 27-05-2019 1:28pm

Mr Tickle wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/connacht-trio-barbarian-squad-to-face-england-at-twickenham-4655688-May2019/

interesting that Callum Sheedy is named in the England team there. He's IQ through his parents.This is a non test match but it could be a sign of intent from England.
He's very young and would make a nice addition to one of the provinces if he could be tempted over.
That said, if he's probably on very good money at Bristol and may have no interest in representing Ireland.

He's been on the radar of a lot of people people for a good while so you'd have to imagine that there have been unsuccessful offers from the provinces.

joseywhales · 27-05-2019 5:02pm

How do you not have Furlong and sexton in your top 5?!

The Lost Sheep · 27-05-2019 5:06pm

Mr Tickle wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/connacht-trio-barbarian-squad-to-face-england-at-twickenham-4655688-May2019/

interesting that Callum Sheedy is named in the England team there. He's IQ through his parents.This is a non test match but it could be a sign of intent from England.
He's very young and would make a nice addition to one of the provinces if he could be tempted over.
That said, if he's probably on very good money at Bristol and may have no interest in representing Ireland.

He's came up here a lot. He is IQ and has represented Ireland at under 19. Dont see him coming here. He is not 24 until later n the year but cant see him being tempted over when he gets enough game time over there

bilston · 27-05-2019 5:09pm

Looks like a 12 month deal for Kearney.

It makes sense for the simple reason he is still Ireland's best full back, never mind Leinster's.

That said we need to find an alternative sooner rather than later. Be that Larmour or someone else.

Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

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