Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Former Former · 23-05-2019 5:02pm

We'll all be disappointed if we don't get to the semis this year.

It's an enormous stretch to say that if we don't, then there will have been no progress in six years.

If we get to play South Africa, they are good enough to beat anyone on their day. If we get to play New Zealand, they are good enough to beat everyone on 95% of days. If we get the sort of injuries that we got last time out, then we're absolutely screwed regardless of which of them we face.

These are things which are out of Joe's hands. If we genuinely bomb, then fair enough. But if we play to our absolute best, and so do New Zealand/South Africa, then we are going to lose. That's not on Joe but he will be absolutely eviscerated for it and the Grand Slam, the championships, none of it will matter.

As I said earlier, the knives are already being sharpened.

Bazzo · 23-05-2019 5:03pm

Former Former wrote: »

We won the six Nations before the last world cup. We were well off the pace in the warm ups but it didn't matter in the end, we had a decent RWC until all the injuries.

Also, it's not Joe or IRFU saying anything about holding things back. It's a random guy on an internet forum. That's an incredibly important distinction.

I never said or implied it was? I was commenting that the posts coming out on this exact forum now are similar to before the last world cup

23-05-2019 8:42pm

I don't think our performance dip was tactical or intended. I think it was human.

I've competed at this level, very few athletes can stay switched on 12 months of the year. Certainly not a random group of 23 collectively.

We had a fire in the belly early season and showed our teeth in November. I'd say that game was talked about more than the six nations. If say that's when the overall team was peaked in terms of fitness

Joe has looked at training tables per player, match stats, coaching journals and all the thing we can't think off and has figured out as close to a formula as there is to getting a bunch of players to peak condition at the right time.

The players are going to be on that timetable and will grudgingly come to recognise where the end game is despite wanting to win everything in between.

I reckon we'll show our teeth again just in time for Japan.

Final is there anyway.

jacothelad · 23-05-2019 9:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think our performance dip was tactical or intended. I think it was human.

I've competed at this level, very few athletes can stay switched on 12 months of the year. Certainly not a random group of 23 collectively.

We had a fire in the belly early season and showed our teeth in November. I'd say that game was talked about more than the six nations. If say that's when the overall team was peaked in terms of fitness

Joe has looked at training tables per player, match stats, coaching journals and all the thing we can't think off and has figured out as close to a formula as there is to getting a bunch of players to peak condition at the right time.

The players are going to be on that timetable and will grudgingly come to recognise where the end game is despite wanting to win everything in between.

I reckon we'll show our teeth again just in time for Japan.

Final is there anyway.

Yes. Players eventually run out of steam. The trick I suppose is to rebuild the pressure. Leinster who are the engine of the Ireland team have been good but not their usual ferocious selves. It is difficult to go to the well relentlessly without some diminution of performance. I think this is where Ireland are at the moment. If Leinster rekindle their form of last season against Glasgow I will be a bit more optimistic.

There also are a few players who are at the end of their careers - certainly as far as Ireland are concerned. Best for example has been a cornerstone of the side but major questions need to be asked about his inclusion. I am concerned at his recent form. Some of his play is o.k. but not all. The l/o is awful.......... Some of the more senior and some of the older players also have been less than stellar in play or are seemingly worryingly injury prone.

The side that strangled the life out of opponents last season is driving with the handbrake on.

mystic86 · 23-05-2019 10:09pm

Any word on the launch of the rugby world cup gear?

troyzer · 23-05-2019 10:14pm

mystic86 wrote: »

Any word on the launch of the rugby world cup gear?

The current stuff has been on sale for a month or so now and they're announcing a training squad next week, might hear something then

Squidgy Black · 23-05-2019 10:16pm

mystic86 wrote: »

Any word on the launch of the rugby world cup gear?

2015 one was released in July, just before the warm ups. I'd imagine it'll be similar enough time wise.

mfceiling · 24-05-2019 7:39am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've competed at this level, very few athletes can stay switched on 12 months of the year.

Never mind the world cup....I want to hear more about your career Venjur.

Eod100 · 24-05-2019 8:20am

Interesting piece with Nucifora here https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/nucifora-sets-ireland-target-of-at-least-a-semi-final-in-rugby-world-cup-1.3902350?mode=amp&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Rugby+salaries+to+remain+below+minimum+wage%3B+Tipperary+s+roving+style+explained&utm_campaign=morning_sports_briefing_digest

24-05-2019 9:34am

mfceiling wrote: »

Never mind the world cup....I want to hear more about your career Venjur.

I had a brief career right out of college as a sarcasm detector - would you like to hear more about that?

thomond2006 · 24-05-2019 9:36am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I had a brief career right out of college as a sarcasm detector - would you like to hear more about that?

No, we'd rather die of thirst.

mfceiling · 24-05-2019 9:37am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I had a brief career right out of college as a sarcasm detector - would you like to hear more about that?

Definitely

Clegg · 24-05-2019 9:44am

Venjur's been called out here.

Jump_In_Jack · 24-05-2019 10:41am

Eod100 wrote: »

Interesting piece with Nucifora here https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/nucifora-sets-ireland-target-of-at-least-a-semi-final-in-rugby-world-cup-1.3902350?mode=amp&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Rugby+salaries+to+remain+below+minimum+wage%3B+Tipperary+s+roving+style+explained&utm_campaign=morning_sports_briefing_digest

This jumped out at me from that article,
"the countdown will begin to the World Cup when Joe Schmidt unveils a preliminary squad of 45-plus on Monday or Tuesday."

phog · 24-05-2019 12:57pm

Nucifora having a little swipe at Rob's agent

“You’ve got to try and make those things align and if we can all agree on what that is and what the future looks like and what the values are then we usually come to a deal.” Yet the Australian took exception to McHugh’s comments, implying the Line Up Sports boss was not part of the current negotiations.

“I haven’t dealt with that fellow who was his agent, to be honest. I’ve never had a conversation with him so I don’t really know where he came from into it. I didn’t realise he was Rob’s agent.

stl.ire · 25-05-2019 3:36am

phog wrote: »

Nucifora having a little swipe at Rob's agent

“You’ve got to try and make those things align and if we can all agree on what that is and what the future looks like and what the values are then we usually come to a deal.” Yet the Australian took exception to McHugh’s comments, implying the Line Up Sports boss was not part of the current negotiations.

“I haven’t dealt with that fellow who was his agent, to be honest. I’ve never had a conversation with him so I don’t really know where he came from into it. I didn’t realise he was Rob’s agent.

Sounds like the IRFU have offered Rob a contract just to be polite.

To compare his situation to other 33 year olds (at the time), he wants a Jaime Heaslip contract but is getting a Donnacha Ryan offer.

Nucifora needs the money for the likes of Stockdale and Larmour who are over 10 years younger. Kearney is already out of the plans.

stl.ire · 25-05-2019 3:36am

phog wrote: »

Nucifora having a little swipe at Rob's agent

“You’ve got to try and make those things align and if we can all agree on what that is and what the future looks like and what the values are then we usually come to a deal.” Yet the Australian took exception to McHugh’s comments, implying the Line Up Sports boss was not part of the current negotiations.

“I haven’t dealt with that fellow who was his agent, to be honest. I’ve never had a conversation with him so I don’t really know where he came from into it. I didn’t realise he was Rob’s agent.

Sounds like the IRFU have offered Rob a contract just to be polite.

To compare his situation to other 33 year olds (at the time), he wants a Jaime Heaslip contract but is getting a Donnacha Ryan offer.

Nucifora needs the money for the likes of Stockdale and Larmour who are over 10 years younger. Kearney is already out of the plans.

Shefwedfan · 25-05-2019 9:46am

stl.ire wrote: »

Sounds like the IRFU have offered Rob a contract just to be polite.

To compare his situation to other 33 year olds (at the time), he wants a Jaime Heaslip contract but is getting a Donnacha Ryan offer.

Nucifora needs the money for the likes of Stockdale and Larmour who are over 10 years younger. Kearney is already out of the plans.

Irfu never offered Donnacha Ryan a contract from what I remember. They left it to Munster to offer. Munster had no money to offer decent money so he left

The irfu got dragged in because Munster wanted them to pay the contract but they wouldn’t, most think this was because James Ryan was about to start internationals

People seemed to come up with the reason that Ryan was old and then pointed the finger because heaslip was similar age. At that stage Heaslip had started nearly every international for years, Ryan was just back in team after some terrible injuries

I would have liked to see Ryan stay but the issue was not with irfu

Erik Shun · 25-05-2019 9:55am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Irfu never offered Donnacha Ryan a contract from what I remember. They left it to Munster to offer. Munster had no money to offer decent money so he left

The irfu got dragged in because Munster wanted them to pay the contract but they wouldn’t, most think this was because James Ryan was about to start internationals

People seemed to come up with the reason that Ryan was old and then pointed the finger because heaslip was similar age. At that stage Heaslip had started nearly every international for years, Ryan was just back in team after some terrible injuries

I would have liked to see Ryan stay but the issue was not with irfu

There was no difference in the contract offer from Munster to the one he accepted from Racing
He wanted a change, that was all.

Vinnie222 · 25-05-2019 10:09am

Erik Shun wrote: »

There was no difference in the contract offer from Munster to the one he accepted from Racing
He wanted a change, that was all.

Contract with Racing was 300k a year , Munster wasnt able to come anyway close to that. .

Erik Shun · 25-05-2019 10:12am

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Contract with Racing was 300k a year , Munster wasnt able to come anyway close to that. .

Not according to Ryan himself.. but you would know better I guess.

Shefwedfan · 25-05-2019 10:19am

Erik Shun wrote: »

There was no difference in the contract offer from Munster to the one he accepted from Racing
He wanted a change, that was all.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.the42.ie/donnacha-ryan-munster-racing-92-move-3308462-Mar2017/%3famp=1

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/donnacha-ryan-to-leave-munster-for-racing-92-reports-1.3026126%3fmode=amp

Not according to anything at the time about the move.....

JJJackal · 25-05-2019 10:28am

aloooof wrote: »

Y

look at the team that played NZ in his first Autumn in charge. Of that team, Bowe, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, O'Connell and Heaslip have all retired. Five of our best ever players. And he's managed to continue getting results during that time.

I agree that Bowe, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, O'Connell and Heaslip were some of our best players ever.

However, would you prefer the younger replacements stockdale, two of henshaw, ringrose and aki, james ryan and stander or a pre-retirement yet still very good Bowe, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, O'Connell and Heaslip?

troyzer · 25-05-2019 10:44am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Erik Shun wrote: »

There was no difference in the contract offer from Munster to the one he accepted from Racing
He wanted a change, that was all.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.the42.ie/donnacha-ryan-munster-racing-92-move-3308462-Mar2017/%3famp=1

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/donnacha-ryan-to-leave-munster-for-racing-92-reports-1.3026126%3fmode=amp

Not according to anything at the time about the move.....

He says it in this interview:

https://youtu.be/HkJRW22UR-4

Wegians89 · 26-05-2019 11:38am

Would be very happy if the back row that started yesterday for Leinster was used by Ireland in the World Cup. Would be very hard to leave ruddock out of the Irish squad.

salmocab · 26-05-2019 11:40am

If SOB isn’t selected in the traveling squad I presume he has to play for Leinster until after the WC or until he travels over as a replacement obviously?

troyzer · 26-05-2019 11:41am

Wegians89 wrote: »

Would be very happy if the back row that started yesterday for Leinster was used by Ireland in the World Cup. Would be very hard to leave ruddock out of the Irish squad.

It'll probably be five backrowers.

POM is going to go no matter what. Stander also. Conan and VdF too. Ruddock, Nordi, SOB are fighting for the last spot.

Ruddock has the advantage of being able to cover second row plus he's a power athelete. Nordi can cover the entire back row but he's really a 7. SOB can cover the entire back row really well but he's not on form.

Wegians89 · 26-05-2019 11:41am

salmocab wrote: »

If SOB isn’t selected in the traveling squad I presume he has to play for Leinster until after the WC or until he travels over as a replacement obviously?

Was thinking of that myself, would be a very interesting situation and also very likely. Would he be kept on holiday near japan and train on his own?

Wegians89 · 26-05-2019 11:44am

troyzer wrote: »

It'll probably be five backrowers.

POM is going to go no matter what. Stander also. Conan and VdF too. Ruddock, Nordi, SOB are fighting for the last spot.

Ruddock has the advantage of being able to cover second row plus he's a power athelete. Nordi can cover the entire back row but he's really a 7. SOB can cover the entire back row really well but he's not on form.

Think you need guys who can slot in at 7 and that might give Nordi the edge.

Shefwedfan · 26-05-2019 11:46am

salmocab wrote: »

If SOB isn’t selected in the traveling squad I presume he has to play for Leinster until after the WC or until he travels over as a replacement obviously?

Based on previous world cups he has a fair chance of getting called up so probably would continue to train with Leinster or an extended Ireland camp

Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

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