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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

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    #1262
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,434 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Johnboy1951 wrote:
    The main points seem to be
    14 years of age and older

    used on bike paths and bike lanes only ... not on footpaths

    max speed of 20kmph

    given same access as bicycles such as some one way streets

    For use on other than bike lanes a special licence is required

    Approved protection required I think .... headgear.

    Yes for age, yes for banning them from footpaths, no to 20kmh, it would be better mirroring the lowest category of e-bikes and cap them at 25kmh. And yes to mandated headgear.

    Basically mirror bikes & lowest category of e-bikes. Sorted.

    I'd allow them out of bike lanes i.e. on the road only with a licence and/or some sort of an insurance.


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    #1263
    Grassey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    McGiver wrote:
    In England it's enforced, lack of lights at night at least from my personal experience, and I've heard helmets too. Gardai don't see to be able to enforce anything here.

    McGiver wrote:
    And yes to mandated headgear.


    Helmets aren't mandatory for cyclists here so why would you want to introduce something additional for scooters that will be of as much protection as a builders vest if you get hit by a motor vehicle, and would potentially only offer some slight protection in other limited circumstances where you might take a spill?


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    #1264
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    ED E wrote: »
    You're greatly exaggerating the risk of a small 36V lipo pack. As long as you don't charge one while visibly damaged (post crash) they're about as dangerous as a laptop.

    Really?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMxMr51zk4k


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    #1265
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    antodeco wrote: »
    And so should bicycles, which they don't. They are meant to, but they don't. No helmet wearing, lights, going through lights, cutting across the front of your car without notice.

    As mentioned, it should be based on the person not vehicle. An idiot is as dangerous on a bicycle as a scooter and vice versa.

    What I ment was that only scooters that meet a EU or Irish standard would be allowed on the road. Ie one is fitted with EU approved, factory fitted headlights, brakes etc.

    A €2 set of lights from Aldi wont do.

    Also the helmets would potentially need to meet EC22.07 regs like motorbike helmets.
    Any future law will need to be boilerplated to stop bogie sellers saying something is legal (like now) when its not.

    A question for anyone that owns one of these scooters.. What wording is on the tyres?
    Could someone post everything that is on the tyre? Just curious!


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    #1266
    marklazarcovic
    Registered Users Posts: 6,211 ✭✭✭marklazarcovic


    Has this been posted? Mad


    https://www.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/comments/bqfqnn/caught_on_cctv/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share


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    #1267
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    What I ment was that only scooters that meet a EU or Irish standard would be allowed on the road. Ie one is fitted with EU approved, factory fitted headlights, brakes etc.

    A €2 set of lights from Aldi wont do.

    Also the helmets would potentially need to meet EC22.07 regs like motorbike helmets.
    Any future law will need to be boilerplated to stop bogie sellers saying something is legal (like now) when its not.

    Mandatory helmets? Let's not get into the helmet hysteria again.


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    #1268
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    grogi wrote: »
    Mandatory helmets? Let's not get into the helmet hysteria again.

    If e-scooters are classed as MPVs you need a helmet that meets ECER22-05 regulations, ie a motorbike helmet. Its the current law.


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    #1269
    KildareMan
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭KildareMan


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    What I ment was that only scooters that meet a
    Also the helmets would potentially need to meet EC22.07 regs like motorbike helmets.

    Minor correction. It's ECE 22-05 not -07


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    #1270
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    KildareMan wrote: »
    Minor correction. It's ECE 22-05 not -07

    You are correct! I dont know how it went from 05 to 07 in my head in the few seconds it took from looking at my helmet to posting!


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    #1271
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    I was unaware there was a tax bracket that these scooters are covered under. Electric motorcycle/scooters are €35 a year to tax.
    Of course it would have to be registered and adhere to EU regulations.
    Are EU regulations taken into considering by the manufacturer? Has anyone managed to get one registered yet?

    https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32013R0168

    It may require installing seat/saddle and having the correct lights amongst other things but at least it's possible.


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    #1272
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    tuxy wrote: »
    I was unaware there was a tax bracket that these scooters are covered under. Electric motorcycle/scooters are €35 a year to tax.
    Of course it would have to be registered and adhere to EU regulations.
    Are EU regulations taken into considering by the manufacturer? Has anyone managed to get one registered yet?

    https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32013R0168

    It may require installing seat/saddle and having the correct lights amongst other things but at least it's possible.

    EU law in not the issue. Its domestic law.
    In the UK, you can register motocross bikes without lights (daytime MOT) and quad bikes for road use.

    Both illegal here. It would be almost impossible to get a certificate of conformity for them. Even if you could that would be for one specific model, not all e-scooters. The manufacturer has to apply to get the certificate of conformity btw.

    Its complicated but look on ebay for one that is already road registered. Then buy the same model and make it road legal for Ireland. You will still need a license, tax etc


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    #1273
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Decision on E-scooter regulations due shortly, as minister says electric scooter users should have a driving licence


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    #1274
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    I wonder does greatly increased regulation increase the changes that some companies will decide to offer insurance.


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    #1275
    magentis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭magentis


    Saw two of these scooters impounded this morning on Wilton terrace.Fair play to the gardai.These things are an absolute death-trap.


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    #1276
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    magentis wrote: »
    Saw two of these scooters impounded this morning on Wilton terrace.Fair play to the gardai.These things are an absolute death-trap.

    Why?
    (not why we're they impounded, why are they a death trap?)

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #1277
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,459 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    magentis wrote: »
    Saw two of these scooters impounded this morning on Wilton terrace.Fair play to the gardai.These things are an absolute death-trap.

    Going through a junction today (I had a green light) and a cyclist went straight across in front of me. I had to emergency break. I stopped safely. No danger to me.


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    #1278
    quarryman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭quarryman


    magentis wrote: »
    Saw two of these scooters impounded this morning on Wilton terrace.Fair play to the gardai.These things are an absolute death-trap.

    No they aren’t.


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    #1279
    quarryman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭quarryman


    antodeco wrote: »
    Going through a junction today (I had a green light) and a cyclist went straight across in front of me. I had to emergency break. I stopped safely. No danger to me.

    The amount of cyclists that I see every day cruising through red lights, usually not wearing a helmet, is crazy. Cyclists will often go onto the path if the road is blocked.

    I’ve never once seen someone on a scooter acting irresponsible.

    They don’t go as fast as a bike, are easier to dismount and take up less space. A perfect solution for commuting IMO.


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    #1280
    Sono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭Sono


    magentis wrote: »
    Saw two of these scooters impounded this morning on Wilton terrace.Fair play to the gardai.These things are an absolute death-trap.

    Nonsense.


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    #1281
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,459 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    I mentioned it before, there are idiots using all modes of transport. A safe escooterist is safer than a dangerous cyclist, and vice versa. Every day I nearly get hit by a cyclist going through lights, swerving off the road into my path etc. I've had 1 escooter do it. Percentages of both mean they're probably the same amount.


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    #1282
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,434 ✭✭✭McGiver


    RSA looking at escooter regulations across the Europe. Oh my oh my, that won't end up well. Instead of looking at what's there and then thinking outside of the box and trying to improve it, I bet they'll make a bad copy of some likely already deficient regulation from England. Because they won't bother translating German, Dutch, French etc laws.


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    #1283
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,425 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    quarryman wrote: »
    The amount of cyclists that I see every day cruising through red lights, usually not wearing a helmet, is crazy.

    Why do you think it’s crazy to not wear a helmet ? Look up the studies and you’ll see valid reasons for not wearing one

    Drivers would be better served wearing helmets and neck braces. Do our call them
    Crazy if they don’t


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    #1284
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    magentis wrote: »
    Saw two of these scooters impounded this morning on Wilton terrace.Fair play to the gardai.These things are an absolute death-trap.

    Motorbikes are much much more dangerous. Many bike riders die every day. And they are not banned. So why would you ban something what's much slower and safer? Doesn't make any sense, does it?


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    #1285
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,434 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Martynet wrote:
    Motorbikes are much much more dangerous. Many bike riders die every day. And they are not banned. So why would you ban something what's much slower and safer? Doesn't make any sense, does it?
    Small difference sure. Hence Motorbikes require:
    Driving licence
    Insurance
    Mandated gear

    The licence is significant. You injure or kill a weaker road user, you lose it.


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    #1286
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,434 ✭✭✭McGiver


    ted1 wrote:
    Why do you think it’s crazy to not wear a helmet ? Look up the studies and you’ll see valid reasons for not wearing one
    Not this bullshít thing again. No more.

    It's like telling bricklayers not to wear a helmet. Yeah you'll die instantly if a brick falls on your head, that's the benefit. You won't suffer!

    This is antiscientific nonsense and it's totally against common sense and medical evidence.

    And don't tell me that so many governments are so stupid that they've mandated wearing helmets just out of impression that helmets may work but in reality they don't.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2598379/


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    #1287
    KildareMan
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭KildareMan


    Martynet wrote: »
    Motorbikes are much much more dangerous. Many bike riders die every day. And they are not banned. So why would you ban something what's much slower and safer? Doesn't make any sense, does it?

    Pure rubbish.
    Many bike riders, on a global scale die every day for sure. As do cyclists, car drivers, lorry drivers, bus passengers etc etc etc.


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    #1288
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    KildareMan wrote: »
    Pure rubbish.
    Many bike riders, on a global scale die every day for sure. As do cyclists, car drivers, lorry drivers, bus passengers etc etc etc.

    Exactly! And are those banned? No. So why ban another, new mode of transport.


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    #1289
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    McGiver wrote: »
    Small difference sure. Hence Motorbikes require:
    Driving licence
    Insurance
    Mandated gear

    The licence is significant. You injure or kill a weaker road user, you lose it.

    Most of the scooter riders wear helmet and hivis. And let me tell you, most of them wouldn't mind paying insurance. But it's impossible at the moment, because irish insurance companies are stuck in the past. Same as irish law.


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    #1290
    KildareMan
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭KildareMan


    Martynet wrote: »
    Most of the scooter riders wear helmet and hivis. And let me tell you, most of them wouldn't mind paying insurance. But it's impossible at the moment, because irish insurance companies are stuck in the past. Same as irish law.
    You can't insure something that is currently illegal.


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    #1291
    Martynet
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Martynet


    KildareMan wrote: »
    You can't insure something that is currently illegal.

    It's illegal because you can't get insurance! Gards said it too. They care more about insurance than registration. Which is also impossible. Because you need a new category for NEW types of personal transport, which is far from "moped" category.


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