No point in trying to better yourself is there ?

johnmck · 20-05-2019 1:34am #1

I'm a teacher working in Dublin. Worked all my life from the age of 15. Re-educated myself to become a teacher. Took me years to get a full time post.
Very happy with my job now, after a bit of struggling to secure a permement post. I love helping students achieve their goals.
I've had to move several times in the past 2 years due to landlords and crazy co-habitants. I've handed in my tenancy notice in the latest rodent / bug invested kip I'm living in Dublin. Technically at the end if the month I'm homeless. Luckily I can move my stuff back to the home house, where my elderly father still lives. But I can't stay there. Some friends have offered to put me up for the summer. Im lucky in that sense. My cousin has offered me cheap rent on his cottage down the country. But it's a 2.5 hour commute to Dublin. What the hell do I do come September? Rent another room in a house with complete strangers. I can't afford a place of my own. Or risk my life from tiredness of falling asleep behind the wheel commuting !
Sometimes I feel I'd be better off having not tried to better myself, developed some sort of disorder or health condition, or had 5 kids and got myself on the local authority housing list and have been a social welfare lifer.
Don't seem to be able to get on with my life for having to tried to be a better person. I'm not expecting sympathy, just that people see the unfair society we are living in. Guessing I'll might get a few haters for this , but it's my truth.

Qrt · 20-05-2019 1:36am

johnmck wrote: »

I'm a teacher working in Dublin. Worked all my life from the age of 15. Re-educated myself to become a teacher. Took me years to get a full time post.
Very happy with my job now, after a bit of struggling to secure a permement post. I love helping students achieve their goals.
I've had to move several times in the past 2 years due to landlords and crazy co-habitants. I've handed in my tenancy notice in the latest rodent / bug invested kip I'm living in Dublin. Technically at the end if the month I'm homeless. Luckily I can move my stuff back to the home house, where my elderly father still lives. But I can't stay there. Some friends have offered to put me up for the summer. Im lucky in that sense. My cousin has offered me cheap rent on his cottage down the country. But it's a 2.5 hour commute to Dublin. What the hell do I do come September? Rent another room in a house with complete strangers. I can't afford a place of my own. Or risk my life from tiredness of falling asleep behind the wheel commuting !
Sometimes I feel I'd be better off having not tried to better myself, developed some sort of disorder or health condition, or had 5 kids and got myself on the local authority housing list and have been a social welfare lifer.
Don't seem to be able to get on with my life for having to tried to be a better person. I'm not expecting sympathy, just that people see the unfair society we are living in. Guessing I'll might get a few haters for this , but it's my truth.

It’s **** but the reality of the 21st Century. But as long as we keep electing centrist/neoliberal governments, nothing will change.

Twenty Grand · 20-05-2019 1:45am

johnmck wrote: »

Sometimes I feel I'd be better off having not tried to better myself, developed some sort of disorder or health condition, or had 5 kids and got myself on the local authority housing list and have been a social welfare lifer.

Good luck with that. Enjoy living on the scratch for the rest of your life with your 5 kids. With any luck you'll all end up in a hotel room for a few years then maybe some hovel in the inner city.

Situation in the cities is sh*t for anyone renting, it's not likely to get better any time soon .
If you're a teacher then why not move out of Dublin? You could go anywhere in the country if you wanted. Houses in Leitrim are going for a song. Head back to Dub at the weekends for pints. Hell even head off and teach English in the middle East or Asia for a few year, come back when things have settled a bit.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 20-05-2019 1:47am

The government should be building 100,000 houses per year to help people like you out.

It's the one thing that is unavoidable in a society. Everyone needs a place to live (and food as well).

You can argue about what the dole should be, or cost over runs on a hospital, or new roads being built, or hospital waiting times, or lack of public transport, or rural broadband or whatever. Housing is the number one issue that should be sorted out, and this government has absolutely failed in that regard.

Social and affordable housing should have been the number one priority over the past 5 years. And it's the number one reason I want this government to get a kicking in the elections next week.

ygolometsipe · 20-05-2019 3:08am

It's a ****ty situation for loads of people. I don't think the government is really trying. They seem to do the bare minimum to try to save face but i think everyone knows at this stage its a farce.

The thing is, their policy is making a lot of house owners/landlords wealthy and there are no real alternatives to FFG bar Shin Fein which is another issue.

I hope it all changes down the line but don't give up, just vote.

Rjd2 · 20-05-2019 3:11am

Qrt wrote: »

It’s **** but the reality of the 21st Century. But as long as we keep electing centrist/neoliberal governments, nothing will change.

The market will sort it out.:p

20-05-2019 3:35am

You sound single. Take that teaching qualification and get a good job in an international school in Asia or something. What's the point in fighting life when you can have a good one handed to you.

I'm friends with a lot of English and Irish people who have done just that.

Always Tired · 20-05-2019 3:36am

Yeah everyone who is ever faced with the indignity of having to move house should just pack in their job, sell their car, and go get in the queue for free gaffs cuz theres no point in anything any more at all lads.

ILoveYourVibes · 20-05-2019 4:00am

Im sorry OP i wish i had an answer for you. One of my best mates is a teacher and my mother taught art to secondary students for a while i know how hard it is.

Maybe you could gain a post nearer to your cousin's cottage after a while.

All i can say is sometimes these things have a way of working out.

ToddyDoody · 20-05-2019 4:11am

Be more evil.

ILoveYourVibes · 20-05-2019 4:20am

ToddyDoody wrote: »

Be more evil.

Ooh ...i like it!

TuringBot47 · 20-05-2019 8:18am

ygolometsipe wrote: »

The thing is, their policy is making a lot of house owners/landlords wealthy

They don't have a policy.
There hasn't been large scale council built housing estates in many decades.
Even if there was, people on the housing list would reject them because they're not in their chosen area.

House owners can't be criticised for their houses acquiring value in a capitalist market with limited supply.

Landlords, since people are leaving marriage until much later in life, we've a lot of accidental landlords where a self sufficient man and woman both had houses before they met up. So one house ends up getting rented out. But the government is absolutely treating accidental landlords as commercial entities, which they are not. Giving tenants the right to stay somewhere for life even if it's against the wishes of landlord? That's the state pushing it's responsibilities on to public and to the private sector.

Re: Op's problems...

Teaching isn't centralized in cities, so as people said, why focus on Dublin?
Also there's plenty of places in between Dublin and your "2.5 hour commute".
And you don't have to commute by car either, a good train link helps.

CucaFace · 20-05-2019 8:44am

You aren't alone, I know a number of others in a similar position to you. Normal workers and businesses who can only afford to pay normal salaries seem to no longer be welcome in Dublin city (I would equate this as 25k to 35k a year jobs).

I'm disgusted with the current government over this as they have failed to protect or give a crap about the actual people who pay the majority of the tax money they collect to spend to try and buy their way to the next election.

This is not a complicated issue to solve. Its a basic supply v demand issue and the government have done nothing except the bare minimum to increase the supply. In fact this morning they have been shown to have been taking from the supply to normal working people to buy housing stock for the long term wasters brigade at the middle classes expense.

They have allowed the continual building of too many student housing villages (aimed only at the rich), office blocks and hotels, neither of which will do anything to help with the supply issue. They should have declared an emergency a year ago and blocked planning permission for new hotels or anything that will take away our current building capacity from starting to build apartment and houses for normal working people to live in.

The current government are either totally incompetent or what is happening is part of their long term plan for Dublin, either way they have to be voted out solely down this to issue. IMO.

Plumbthedepths · 20-05-2019 8:51am

Cool another dole bashing/social housing thread. Yawn......

Spleerbun · 20-05-2019 8:52am

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The government should be building 100,000 houses per year to help people like you out.
.

*high rise apartment buildings in the city centre

suicide_circus · 20-05-2019 8:55am

once you are a home owner you have a vested interest in prices and rents being high

BattleCorp · 20-05-2019 8:58am

Firstly, congrats on retraining and bettering yourself. It's not something to be regretted.

Secondly, a 2.5 hour commute each way is too much. I'm doing a 1.5 hour commute each day and it's p1ssing me off. And I'm lucky, I've a company car so I don't have to pay for fuel. It's not just the length of the 2.5 hour commute that would kill you, the price of fuel/running a car would kill you.

My advice is to share a room in a house somewhere near where you work for the time being. Keep on the lookout for another job outside of the capital and just keep going until something turns up. As your experience builds, so does your employability. Stick with it.

Enjoy the Summer hols.

Bannasidhe · 20-05-2019 9:09am

suicide_circus wrote: »

once you are a home owner you have a vested interest in prices and rents being high

What?
I'm a home owner and I have zero interest in prices and rents being high. I have an interest in interest rates being low so I can pay my mortgage and can also afford buy fripperies like food, pay bills etc.

My house is my home. I am not selling. I am not renting it out. I am living in it and paying for it every month. How much the house next door sells for has absolutely no interest for me bar noting that the sale price is still less than what was paid for it when it was first bought in 2005 as a new build.

I'm a home owner and I believe the govt should be building social housing.
I'm a home owner and I believe the rental market is a complete shambles.

tjhook · 20-05-2019 9:29am

suicide_circus wrote: »

once you are a home owner you have a vested interest in prices and rents being high

Not necessarily. If you have any intention to move to a bigger or more expensive house in the future, then you may not want the prices to rise, as this will mean you need to borrow/save a higher amount to cover the higher cost of the next house.

If you want to stay in your current house for good, then raising prices may mean a higher home tax (once the Government gets around to it).

Raising prices are good for those downsizing, or selling to move abroad, or selling to rent. But I think they're a minority.

TuringBot47 · 20-05-2019 9:30am

CucaFace wrote: »

This is not a complicated issue to solve.

It is if the government has limited funds.
Don't forget to thank Fianna Fail for that at the voting booths.

Hedgelayer · 20-05-2019 9:38am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What?
I'm a home owner and I have zero interest in prices and rents being high. I have an interest in interest rates being low so I can pay my mortgage and can also afford buy fripperies like food, pay bills etc.

My house is my home. I am not selling. I am not renting it out. I am living in it and paying for it every month. How much the house next door sells for has absolutely no interest for me bar noting that the sale price is still less than what was paid for it when it was first bought in 2005 as a new build.

I'm a home owner and I believe the govt should be building social housing.
I'm a home owner and I believe the rental market is a complete shambles.

Your post reminds me of a Fr Ted sketch lol

You tell em, you're a home owner.

I hear you're a racist now Father

valoren · 20-05-2019 9:40am

Why can't you stay in your father's house?

Bannasidhe · 20-05-2019 9:42am

TuringBot47 wrote: »

It is if the government has limited funds.
Don't forget to thank Fianna Fail for that at the voting booths.

The government has no idea how to manage the limited funds - millions paid out to put people up in hotels and B&B's, millions paid to private landlords under HAP, paying over the odds to buy houses on the open market, not to mention massive overrun on pretty much every single infrastructure build...but apparently we can't afford to build social housing...

I'm no fan of FF but this is down to the current government - they are calling the shots and making a complete hames of it.

cgcsb · 20-05-2019 9:42am

Go to Dubai and teach English, work on your tan. After 4 years come back, buy your own house and teach at your leisure. The housing crisis isn't being tackled because the right people are making a good profit from it. This will remain the same under a FG/FF/LAB or even SF government.

mariaalice · 20-05-2019 9:43am

Yes its ****y yoiu have ended up in this siutation.

If you are a secondary teacher in a permanent job you are on a minimum €36,318k so realistically the maximum mortgage you are going to get would be about 160k looking at the school you are in look at every where within an hours commute to the school you would get something in and aroun Navan for example. Realistically you will never be able to buy In Dublin and accepting tht is kind of liberating.

Or, get a career brake go to the middle east for a few years save like mad and then come home and get something.

BarryD2 · 20-05-2019 9:45am

johnmck wrote: »

I'm a teacher working in Dublin. Worked all my life from the age of 15. Re-educated myself to become a teacher. Took me years to get a full time post.

One solution is fairly simple. Housing is generally cheaper outside the main cities so look for a teaching post outside Dublin.

Tikki Wang Wang · 20-05-2019 9:49am

johnmck wrote: »

I'm a teacher working in Dublin. Worked all my life from the age of 15. Re-educated myself to become a teacher. Took me years to get a full time post.
Very happy with my job now, after a bit of struggling to secure a permement post. I love helping students achieve their goals.
I've had to move several times in the past 2 years due to landlords and crazy co-habitants. I've handed in my tenancy notice in the latest rodent / bug invested kip I'm living in Dublin. Technically at the end if the month I'm homeless. Luckily I can move my stuff back to the home house, where my elderly father still lives. But I can't stay there. Some friends have offered to put me up for the summer. Im lucky in that sense. My cousin has offered me cheap rent on his cottage down the country. But it's a 2.5 hour commute to Dublin. What the hell do I do come September? Rent another room in a house with complete strangers. I can't afford a place of my own. Or risk my life from tiredness of falling asleep behind the wheel commuting !
Sometimes I feel I'd be better off having not tried to better myself, developed some sort of disorder or health condition, or had 5 kids and got myself on the local authority housing list and have been a social welfare lifer.
Don't seem to be able to get on with my life for having to tried to be a better person. I'm not expecting sympathy, just that people see the unfair society we are living in. Guessing I'll might get a few haters for this , but it's my truth.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057978875/1/#post110122148

johnmck · 20-05-2019 9:51am

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Good luck with that. Enjoy living on the scratch for the rest of your life with your 5 kids. With any luck you'll all end up in a hotel room for a few years then maybe some hovel in the inner city.

Situation in the cities is sh*t for anyone renting, it's not likely to get better any time soon .
If you're a teacher then why not move out of Dublin? You could go anywhere in the country if you wanted. Houses in Leitrim are going for a song. Head back to Dub at the weekends for pints. Hell even head off and teach English in the middle East or Asia for a few year, come back when things have settled a bit.

I already worked for years in the country, got screwed around, never got a permanent post. Feel I'm too old for going abroad to teach English, plus over qualified for that. I'm almost 40. Be fine if I was in my 20s

johnmck · 20-05-2019 9:54am

TuringBot47 wrote: »

They don't have a policy.
There hasn't been large scale council built housing estates in many decades.
Even if there was, people on the housing list would reject them because they're not in their chosen area.

House owners can't be criticised for their houses acquiring value in a capitalist market with limited supply.

Landlords, since people are leaving marriage until much later in life, we've a lot of accidental landlords where a self sufficient man and woman both had houses before they met up. So one house ends up getting rented out. But the government is absolutely treating accidental landlords as commercial entities, which they are not. Giving tenants the right to stay somewhere for life even if it's against the wishes of landlord? That's the state pushing it's responsibilities on to public and to the private sector.

Re: Op's problems...

Teaching isn't centralized in cities, so as people said, why focus on Dublin?
Also there's plenty of places in between Dublin and your "2.5 hour commute".
And you don't have to commute by car either, a good train link helps.

My permanent post is in Dublin. I would have to go back to square one if I leave it! No guarantee I'd get a post outside of Dublin. It's all about who you know where I'm from! At least I got my post in Dublin on my merit

mariaalice · 20-05-2019 9:55am

johnmck wrote: »

I already worked for years in the country, got screwed around, never got a permanent post. Feel I'm too old for going abroad to teach English, plus over qualified for that. I'm almost 40. Be fine if I was in my 20s

What is to stop you committing an hour or so just like thousands of othere? do you feel you have a right to live in Dublin?

johnmck · 20-05-2019 9:57am

BarryD2 wrote: »

One solution is fairly simple. Housing is generally cheaper outside the main cities so look for a teaching post outside Dublin.

I've been looking!

johnmck · 20-05-2019 9:58am

mariaalice wrote: »

What is to stop you committing an hour or so just like thousands of othere? do you feel you have a right to live in Dublin?

No I don't, I've looked for places. Found a one bed apartment in Brittas Bay for €900 a month !

topper75 · 20-05-2019 10:00am

You are not seeing your opportunities OP and only see crisis - each and every one of those kids you are teaching buys drugs.
Why can't the dealer be you?
Most dealers would kill (probably even literally) for market access like yours.
In 18 months you'll be turning the key in the door of your Killiney mansion.
You won't have just bettered yourself; you'll have bested yourself. *exhales doobie smoke*

Hector Savage · 20-05-2019 10:05am

I am lucky that we managed to get a place and have 2 kids - not in Ireland tho.
But I am depressed for my kids future, I can't see what they will be able to get, if it's bad now in 20 years time it will be an absolute disaster.
Population exploding and uncontrolled immigration ??? meanwhile automation will get rid of so many jobs.

I think humanity has one or two generations left, really.

_Brian · 20-05-2019 10:08am

Surely it’s time to look for a job outside the capital city.

If your circumstances don’t afford you to live there then you need to be looking towards somewhere that does.

The government have failed on pretty much every meaningful measurement you could apply but their performance on housing is dire.

Anteayer · 20-05-2019 10:12am

The bigger picture issue is that Dublin (and probably Cork if not a couple of other cities) will start to be unable to attract employees for jobs with pay below the levels that can afford to rent apartments/houses at these stratospheric levels.

That pushes costs up enormously or results in a shortage of key staff across a whole load of areas and it tends to have real pinch points when you can't recruit teachers, nurses, hospital doctors, Gardai and so on.

It also makes life very difficult for a whole range of companies and makes Ireland less attractive for FDI.

sbsquarepants · 20-05-2019 10:14am

johnmck wrote: »

I'm not expecting sympathy,.

What are you doing for the summer John?:D

It is a kick in the nuts when you go and try do the right thing only for the system to conspire against you. The housing situation is deplorable and it really boils my blood to hear these arsehole politicians spouting on about how complicated it is, it literally could not be simpler - build more fúcking houses!

3 billion quid to bring broadband to the wilds of Donegal, commendable I suppose, but Jesus Christ lads, come on now - first things first!

Wheeliebin30 · 20-05-2019 10:14am

It was not 6 years ago we had too many houses and ghost estates.

Did people expect the government to build more houses then?

There is an issue now but that’s expected, in a few years it will catch up.

Google rental and housing crisis and every country is exactly the same as Ireland.

There isn’t billions to build 100,000 houses a year.

The money just isn’t there, people cant understand this simple equation.

KikiLaRue · 20-05-2019 10:18am

Get a job down the country. You're in a much better position than most. Most people are tied to Dublin because that's where their jobs are, you're not. Even if it takes another year or two to get a permanent position, that should be your goal.

You have the summer to either recharge your batteries or earn some extra money, again a privilege most jobs don't come with.

And you'll retire with a decent pension.

I do understand your frustration. I'd love to buy in Dublin but unless I meet someone with a similar amount in savings as me, that's not realistic. I've never wanted to buy down the country, but it's probably what I'll end up doing.

We can't have it all, unfortunately.

trigger26 · 20-05-2019 10:22am

if you dont change something you'll be same again next year, you'll end up bitter like Grimey;) the housing situation is not going to change any time soon so why not take a punt out of the city? Lived in Dublin myself for 10 years and bought a house in country just before crash, still wouldn't change the decision to move out of there, just the timing!

touts · 20-05-2019 10:22am

BarryD2 wrote: »

One solution is fairly simple. Housing is generally cheaper outside the main cities so look for a teaching post outside Dublin.

As the OP said their permanent job is in Dublin. It isn't that easy to transfer. And the same goes for a lot of people working in Programming and Finance etc. In those cases the jobs don't exist outside Dublin but the houses don't exist inside Dublin.

Anyway why should working people be the ones forced to live 2 hours from their place of work. One other solution would be to provide social housing outside the city rather than commuter houses. It would be cheaper for the government and would break up the gettos of multi-generational welfare class estates that have developed in the big cities. Someone can watch Jermery Kyle repeats in their Pajamas just as easily from a 100k bungalow in Leitrim as from a 400k semi-d in Dundrum.

klaaaz · 20-05-2019 10:25am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

There is an issue now but that’s expected, in a few years it will catch up.

Google rental and housing crisis and every country is exactly the same as Ireland.

Hear that OP, wait a few years and you'll be grand, Trust FFG!

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

There isn’t billions to build 100,000 houses a year.

The money just isn’t there, people cant understand this simple equation.

A few wasted billion on Irish Water and the children's hospital for starters.

sbsquarepants · 20-05-2019 10:25am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

.

There isn’t billions to build 100,000 houses a year.

The money just isn’t there, people cant understand this simple equation.

Why isn't there?

There's billions for broadband, there's billions for the childrens hospital, why is it beyond the range of possibility to borrow another billion to house the population ffs?

Interest rates have never been lower - now is the ideal time to do so. There's no end of land already in state ownership, there's tons of demand, it is clearly in the national interest, far more so than bringing Netflix to west Cork I'd argue.

What's stopping it?

mariaalice · 20-05-2019 10:26am

Long term renting for someone in their forties in Ireland is not sustainable at the moment the market and the framework around it means it does not work, their only option is to buy something somewhere.

I can link it but there was an Irish Time article about people in their forties and fifties traying to rent in Dublin the OP is no the only one in that position but at least they have a permanent reasonable paying job.

Wheeliebin30 · 20-05-2019 10:29am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Why isn't there?

There's billions for broadband, there's billions for the childrens hospital, why is it beyond the range of possibility to borrow another billion to house the population ffs?

Interest rates have never been lower - now is the ideal time to do so. There's no end of land already in state ownership, there's tons of demand, it is clearly in the national interest, far more so than bringing Netflix to west Cork I'd argue.

What's stopping it?

So 1 billion will house everyone?

1 billion will get you roughly 3,500 houses at a cost of 300k for example.

mariaalice · 20-05-2019 10:32am

OP an apaprtemnt for under 150k in Dublin. I have had to drive past here recently and yes it could be described as having a lot going on.

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/apt-12-marlfield-close-kiltipper-tallaght-dublin-24/4333877

Wheeliebin30 · 20-05-2019 10:35am

klaaaz wrote: »

Hear that OP, wait a few years and you'll be grand, Trust FFG!

A few wasted billion on Irish Water and the children's hospital for starters.

Maybe if people had agreed to water charges there would be more money for housing?

But they didn’t and the rest is history.

suicide_circus · 20-05-2019 10:38am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Maybe if people had agreed to water charges there would be more money for housing?

But they didn’t and the rest is history.

my neighbour has a bumper sticker on his car which says something like "my road tax already pays for my water"

i sh1t you not.

20-05-2019 10:39am

I genuinely have empathy for the OP, but why o why did you have to go and blame the poor?

I understand that you're feeling angry and dejected, and for good reasons; but poor people didn't create this absurd, dysfunctional economy. They are little more than a paper-cut on the body of a leper.

You are completely ignoring the real problem, and by blaming the poorest people in society, are absolving of blame the real architects of deprivation and falling living-standards: Irish and European governments, large industry, and globalisation.

sbsquarepants · 20-05-2019 10:40am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

So 1 billion will house everyone?

1 billion will get you roughly 3,500 houses at a cost of 300k for example.

Of course a billion won't house everyone, it was a throwaway remark not a costing exercise!

Why would it cost anything like 300k to build a house. I could build a one off house for less than that from scratch, group them together, throw in economies of scale and no land costs and there's no reason you couldn't do it for half that. So now you've an extra 7000 coming on the market for your billion. Make it 3 or 4 billion and you've gone quite a way to addressing the problem.

That would be money well spent in my opinion. Do you not agree?

Kivaro · 20-05-2019 10:40am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

There isn’t billions to build 100,000 houses a year.

The money just isn’t there, people cant understand this simple equation.

But the government is exactly doing that, with social housing.
They spent 46% over 2017's budget at a cost of €1.14 billion to build primarily social housing. They also plan to spend billions more in the the next few years; again primarily for social housing.
And around €3 billion is earmarked for rent subsidies for the next few years.

The only way to send a message to the current government that others out there need help too i.e people who work and contribute to society, is to not vote for Fine Gael on Friday. Send them a message that it's unfair what they are going.

I posted recently about a family member in a nearby town with 2 kids. Both herself and her husband work and cannot afford a house in the town, mainly because the housing stock was bought up by the council primarily (apparently) to house Africans migrants and Roma gypsies. They are now looking at buying an old cottage in the countryside, away from their family and support systems. Libs and Sinn Fein will say that this is a justifiable cost to diversify us. The likes of Coveney want every village and town in Ireland to be fully diversified as soon as possible, but what surprises many of us is the speed that they are carrying it out, and the cost (financially, culturally, resources etc.) involved.

How about an equitable system? Be fair to everyone in the country. Make affordable homes available to those who work and contribute to our society.

No point in trying to better yourself is there ?

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