"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

OneOfThem Stumbled · 14-05-2019 12:46PM

This scene (the first 3 minutes of the video) is flat out contradicted in the most recent episode (including the implication that she would have acted totally differently had she still had Jorah to advise her).

extra gravy · 14-05-2019 12:47PM

turbbo wrote: »

Anybody else wondering how one dragon that had been so crap in previous episodes(in winterfell we could barely see a flame). Has the ability to breathe not just fire now but full on explosives?

He wasn't breathing explosives. KL is likely riddled with leftover wildfire and we saw in the attack on the Sept how highly flammable it is.

lawlolawl · 14-05-2019 12:50PM

extra gravy wrote: »

He wasn't breathing explosives. KL is likely riddled with leftover wildfire and we saw in the attack on the Sept how highly flammable it is.

There were like 4 puffs of wildfire exploding and they happened near the end of the episode.

md23040 · 14-05-2019 12:51PM

There seems to be a continuity error within the episode with the Special Effect department or else there's a fast moving tide at Kings Landing.

The iron fleet are positioned at mark X on the map below.

But when Dany goes rouge around 42 minutes into the episode and flys Drogon towards the Red Keep the ships are miles out at sea.

youreadthat · 14-05-2019 12:59PM

walshb wrote: »

I enjoyed some parts....

My view is overall I thought is was below average. Hugely overrated. It juts was ridiculously repetitive, with far too many pointless stories, and pointless OTT violence for the sake of it...it lacked depth and imagination. And had next to no human feel about it.....

Why did I continue watch it?

Well, my wife was wanting to see it through, and rather than be the anti social husband, I decided to keep with it.

So too much violence and you thought there was no nuance. I think you need a map to the reality TV sub.

MisterAnarchy · 14-05-2019 01:08PM

turbbo wrote: »

Anybody else wondering how one dragon that had been so crap in previous episodes(in winterfell we could barely see a flame). Has the ability to breathe not just fire now but full on explosives?

Well his fire breath was pretty powerful before but from listening to a behind the scenes clip one of the special effects guy was saying that they decided to increase his flame destruction to almost Godzilla levels.:rolleyes:

It certainly seemed that way ,stone buildings were exploding the second his flame hit them.
One blast of his breath blew the Red Keep in half.

Viserion could bring down the Wall last season ,a 90ft thick wall but Jon Snow could hide behind a small rock from him and was fine and Winterfell received very little structural damage from multiple blasts of his flame.

Its pure nonsense really.

gargargar · 14-05-2019 01:11PM

I'm glad they didn't mess too much with the character of The Hound. Perhaps one of the greatest anti-heroes of recent times? He was brutish, unsentimental, coarse, unfriendly and yet in many ways I think I will miss his character more than others.

14-05-2019 01:19PM

md23040 wrote: »

There seems to be a continuity error within the episode with the Special Effect department or else there's a fast moving tide at Kings Landing.

The iron fleet are positioned at mark X on the map below.

But when Dany goes rouge around 42 minutes into the episode and flys Drogon towards the Red Keep the ships are miles out at sea.

I hope someone got fired for that

TerrorFirmer · 14-05-2019 01:24PM

Just looking at those photos as well remind me of how inconsistent the CGI is this season. It's mostly good for epic shots, and dragon-related antics, but some of the static CGI is terrible - awful texture and lighting. Obviously they had to prioritize certain aspects and it is a TV show at the end of the day, but some of it really takes you out of the moment. Some of the CGI for the black fleet (not burning) and gates of Kings Landing look like a video game cutscene. Far worse than anything static shown in previous seasons.

Another scene I noticed it was the funeral pyre at Winterfell. Just had a cheap, budget look to it.

Ri_Nollaig · 14-05-2019 01:26PM

md23040 wrote: »

There seems to be a continuity error within the episode with the Special Effect department or else there's a fast moving tide at Kings Landing.

The iron fleet are positioned at mark X on the map below.

But when Dany goes rouge around 42 minutes into the episode and flys Drogon towards the Red Keep the ships are miles out at sea.
[/IMG]

If that was the only thing wrong with the past season, we would be doing very well for ourselfs

TherapyBoy · 14-05-2019 01:31PM

lawred2 wrote: »

This is true.. also a very convincing performance from the horse. Never doubted for a second that it was indeed a horse.

A-ha! Wrong again!! They just taped a bunch of cats together.

Paddy Cow · 14-05-2019 01:55PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

For Jamie, Brienne represented honour, something he's wanted to recover all his life.

Anything horrible or dishonourable Jamie has ever done has been for Cersei. You could argue Jamie and Brienne getting it on was Jamie finally securing the honour he's craved all his life, but when he got it he still gave it up for Cersei. I think their ending was fitting.

Cersei brought out the worst in Jamie. Brienne brought out the best but it was Cersei he loved. Tyrion pointed out that Jamie always knew what Cersei was but loved her anyway. I was convinced last week that Jamie was going to kill her but that was because I had the prophecy in my head. At first I couldn't understand why he'd go back on his redemption to her but then I realised he was being true to himself and it was me who wanted him to be "good".

In the end, even though Cersei didn't get a brutal death, it was a good one. She was a cruel b!tch who deserved to die alone and broken but life is unfair and even though she died, she got to die in the comfort of her lover's arms. The innocents of King's Landing had no such comfort through no fault of their own.

J. Marston · 14-05-2019 02:10PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Cersei brought out the worst in Jamie. Brienne brought out the best but it was Cersei he loved. Tyrion pointed out that Jamie always knew what Cersei was but loved her anyway. I was convinced last week that Jamie was going to kill her but that was because I had the prophecy in my head. At first I couldn't understand why he'd go back on his redemption to her but then I realised he was being true to himself and it was me who wanted him to be "good".

In the end, even though Cersei didn't get a brutal death, it was a good one. She was a cruel b!tch who deserved to die alone and broken but life is unfair and even though she died, she got to die in the comfort of her lover's arms. The innocents of King's Landing had no such comfort through no fault of their own.

Wouldn't agree that it was a good death. She was cowering, crying and pleading about how she didn't want to die.

Jaime may have calmed her but in the end she was forced to feel the fear and helplessness that she inflicted on many others.

Paddy Cow · 14-05-2019 02:16PM

J. Marston wrote: »

Wouldn't agree that it was a good death. She was cowering, crying and pleading about how she didn't want to die.

Jaime may have calmed her but in the end she was forced to feel the fear and helplessness that she inflicted on many others.

She finally had to face the fact that she lost everything and it was all her own doing. She was stripped of her arrogance and left a broken, weeping mess. I found that satisfying. She has broken so many others and now it's her turn, as a consequence of her own actions. It would have been more satisfying if she was on her own and terrified but then Jamie wouldn't have gotton his happy ending of dying with the love of his life.

2Mad2BeMad · 14-05-2019 02:19PM

Big question lads.

Is the iron throne still standing or is it under a pile of stones now?

Feisar · 14-05-2019 02:20PM

On the Cersei death, she wasn't a warrior or a dragon rider or whatever, hard to see her go out in an epic fashion. Although Olenna Tyrell went out with style. God do you remember those dizzy heights?

Feisar · 14-05-2019 02:20PM

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Big question lads.

Is the iron throne still standing or is it under a pile of stones now?

oooh hadn't thought of that!

2ndcoming · 14-05-2019 02:22PM

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Big question lads.

Is the iron throne still standing or is it under a pile of stones now?

Tune in next week to find out!

(More than likely it will appear as it did in the house of the undying.)

intellectual dosser · 14-05-2019 02:29PM

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Big question lads.

Is the iron throne still standing or is it under a pile of stones now?

A couple of seasons ago (think it was a season opening scene or ending scene) Dany had a dream of the throne room complete destroyed and covered in snow. The throne itself was intact (I think).

It might be the case that the snow was actually ash.

Greyfox · 14-05-2019 02:34PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

She finally had to face the fact that she lost everything and it was all her own doing. She was stripped of her arrogance and left a broken, weeping mess. I found that satisfying. She has broken so many others and now it's her turn, as a consequence of her own actions. It would have been more satisfying if she was on her own and terrified but then Jamie wouldn't have gotton his happy ending of dying with the love of his life.

The problem is so many people loved Jamie as they felt he turned from a bad person to a good person. By going back to Cersei and not killing her he didnt die as a good person, I think if he had of killed Cersei I could of forgiven all his bad deeds. It's an ok end for Cersei but considering she's overall the biggest villian of GOT a more gruesome death would be far more satisfying, her death is something fans have been anticipating for a long time

Overall amazing stuff, this seasons best episode. This seasons fast pacing could of ruined Dany's transformation but this and her slaughter of innocents played out very well, its now fascinating to see who will kill her next week. S8 is nowhere near as good as S4 but its still unmissable TV.

Loafing Oaf · 14-05-2019 02:35PM

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Big question lads.

Is the iron throne still standing or is it under a pile of stones now?

It will be so smashed up that King Jon/Aegon will have it melted into ploughshares...Assuming he actually inherits it...

GHOST MGG · 14-05-2019 02:36PM

I reckon the mad queen marches on winterfell and the whitewalkers come back and kill her!

Paddy Cow · 14-05-2019 02:42PM

Greyfox wrote: »

The problem is so many people loved Jamie as they felt he turned from a bad person to a good person. By going back to Cersei and not killing her he didnt die as a good person, I think if he had of killed Cersei I could of forgiven all his bad deeds. It's an ok end for Cersei but considering she's overall the biggest villian of GOT a more gruesome death would be far more satisfying, her death is something fans have been anticipating for a long time

I was one of those and I really wanted him to kill her to complete his redemption. But that was me wanting him to be someone he wasn't. When I think back to everything he's done, it makes sense that he went to die with Cersei because she has always been his true love and purpose. I wanted Jamie to be good but really he wasn't. This was someone willing to kill a child to protect Cersei. He threatened to kill Edmure, his child and everyone in Riverrun to get back to Cersei. He was never going to chose a happy ever after with Brienne and if he had, it would've just been fan service. I don't like Jamie's choice but it's true to who he has been since the beginning.

snotboogie · 14-05-2019 02:56PM

I don't see how this episode would cause anybody to turn on the show. The plot holes in this episode are far smaller than what have been on show previously, most seemed willing to tolerate Tryion (one of the smartest people in the realm) concocting a totally implausible plan to send the most important person in the world North of the wall, greatly risking his life, to recover a zombie, all for the tiny chance of convincing Cersie to fight with them? Same for Jamie being two feet away from a dragon submerged and drowning in full armor and him inexplicably popping up a few kilometers away totally safe? People were ok with the Night King, a literal King on the chess board, who has had thousands of years to plan his attack, putting himself in danger while he is destroying his opposition, only to be killed by a teenage girl assassin who literally flies out of nowhere? They are ok to tolerate Cersie having a clear line of sight with dozens of weapons and an army at her disposal to an almost defenseless Danny and just chopping her best friends head off and letting Danny go back to regroup so that Cersie can can have everything that is important to her obliterated?

While the points raised here about the plot holes in this episode are correct, it was stupid to have Euron wash up next to Jamie, in comparison to some of the happenstances in the last season and a half it's barely worth mentioning. I don't see how this could be the breaking point for anyone? It's at least plausible, unlike say Arya being stabbed in the gut five times and having no lasting impact at all. Same for Danny going mad, it didn't totally add up but there was just enough background for them to sell it. As an ark it's far less egregious than the LittleFinger/Sansa/Arya debacle.

The big difference I see with this turn is that it wasn't fan servicey, it wasn't a cool attractive powerful woman destroying a detestable enemy on her dragon, it was the reality of war, a brutal destruction of mostly innocent people to seize and establish the power she so desperately wanted. It wasn't Arya, the unstoppable assassin, getting to her mountain top ending, silting the throat of her families nemesis, it was her confronting the consequences of revenge and walking away helpless to the carnage of the world, this reminded me of Omar buying a pack of cigarettes to conclude the his increasingly unbelievable ark. This certainly wasn't Walter White mowing down brainlessly evil Nazi's with a robot gun, an ending most seemed to love, it was a throwback to classic Game of Thrones, the horrible consequences of understandable desires matched with the power to act on them but facing off with the inevitable consequences of how that very power changes them. Take the throne to act...

This didn't have the artful set up of the Red Wedding but it hamfisted a satisfying conclusion to a series that stuttered and struggled post GRM. Considering the holes D+D had dug for themselves, this was the best possible outcome; a beautifully directed 90 minutes of pulsating action that freed itself from the fantasy tropes that dominated episode 3 and much of the last two seasons.

lawred2 · 14-05-2019 03:00PM

snotboogie wrote: »

I don't see how this episode would cause anybody to turn on the show. The plot holes in this episode are far smaller than what have been on show previously, most seemed willing to tolerate Tryion (one of the smartest people in the realm) concocting a totally implausible plan to send the most important person in the world North of the wall, greatly risking his life, to recover a zombie, all for the tiny chance of convincing Cersie to fight with them? Same for Jamie being two feet away from a dragon submerged and drowning in full armor and him inexplicably popping up a few kilometers away totally safe? People were ok with the Night King, a literal King on the chess board, who has had thousands of years to plan his attack, putting himself in danger while he is destroying his opposition, only to be killed by a teenage girl assassin who literally flies out of nowhere? They are ok to tolerate Cersie having a clear line of sight with dozens of weapons and an army at her disposal to an almost defenseless Danny and just chopping her best friends head off and letting Danny go back to regroup so that Cersie can can have everything that is important to her obliterated?

While the points raised here about the plot holes in this episode are correct, it was stupid to have Euron wash up next to Jamie, in comparison to some of the happenstances in the last season and a half it's barely worth mentioning. I don't see how this could be the breaking point for anyone? It's at least plausible, unlike say Arya being stabbed in the gut five times and having no lasting impact at all. Same for Danny going mad, it didn't totally add up but there was just enough background for them to sell it. As an ark it's far less egregious than the LittleFinger/Sansa/Arya debacle.

The big difference I see with this turn is that it wasn't fan servicey, it wasn't a cool attractive powerful woman destroying a detestable enemy on her dragon, it was the reality of war, a brutal destruction of mostly innocent people to seize and establish the power she so desperately wanted. It wasn't Arya, the unstoppable assassin, getting to her mountain top ending, silting the throat of her families nemesis, it was her confronting the consequences of revenge and walking away helpless to the carnage of the world, this reminded me of Omar buying a pack of cigarettes to conclude the his increasingly unbelievable ark. This certainly wasn't Walter White mowing down brainlessly evil Nazi's with a robot gun, an ending most seemed to love, it was a throwback to classic Game of Thrones, the horrible consequences of understandable desires matched with the power to act on them but facing off with the inevitable consequences of how that very power changes them. Take the throne to act...

This didn't have the artful set up of the Red Wedding but it hamfisted a satisfying conclusion to a series that stuttered and struggled post GRM. Considering the holes D+D had dug for themselves, this was the best possible outcome; a beautifully directed 90 minutes of pulsating action that freed itself from the fantasy tropes that dominated episode 3 and much of the last two seasons.

all those and more have been raised and questioned - false premise to base your post on really

Foxtrol · 14-05-2019 03:09PM

is_that_so wrote: »

It's not what people like or dislike. Sure the evil maniac thing lurked within her and it was always a possibility but that path was not properly developed unless you mean the sulking and pouting they've had her do for two seasons. It's a writing and plotting issue and that has been done far too fast and quite badly.

Spending 8 seasons horribly killing anyone who she deems to be her enemies or associates of her enemies and threatening to burn down cities followed by in a short period ripping away her entire support system that curbed those bad tendencies, through death and betrayal, is a lot more development than sulking and pouting. Just because you didn’t see it or agree with it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.

Cina · 14-05-2019 03:12PM

At this stage I'd prefer if the final episode was just Tormund and Ghost wandering around the North for 80 minutes.

OneOfThem Stumbled · 14-05-2019 03:14PM

snotboogie wrote: »

I don't see how this episode would cause anybody to turn on the show. The plot holes in this episode are far smaller than what have been on show previously, most seemed willing to tolerate Tryion (one of the smartest people in the realm) concocting a totally implausible plan to send the most important person in the world North of the wall, greatly risking his life, to recover a zombie, all for the tiny chance of convincing Cersie to fight with them? Same for Jamie being two feet away from a dragon submerged and drowning in full armor and him inexplicably popping up a few kilometers away totally safe? People were ok with the Night King, a literal King on the chess board, who has had thousands of years to plan his attack, putting himself in danger while he is destroying his opposition, only to be killed by a teenage girl assassin who literally flies out of nowhere? They are ok to tolerate Cersie having a clear line of sight with dozens of weapons and an army at her disposal to an almost defenseless Danny and just chopping her best friends head off and letting Danny go back to regroup so that Cersie can can have everything that is important to her obliterated?

Who said that people are okay with that? I'm sure some are, like some people were fine with Bobby popping out of the shower in Dallas, or the Fonz jumping over sharks on Happy Days, or Dexter when season 6 happened. Some people watched the series "Heroes" until the very end, even after two thirds of the audience had dropped it.

Ralph the movie maker does a good analysis of Season 7 of GOT.

The zombie kidnap plot was so stupid it basically finished me with the show, at least the show that purported to be about politics, and characters doing sensible things. I was still honestly hyped for the war against the Night King, but that turned out to be only very average, and over in a single episode. Everything that has involved Cersei has made no sense since she blew up the Sept of Baelor so... I mean she could turn into a literal dragon and I wouldn't bat an eye.

snotboogie wrote: »

This didn't have the artful set up of the Red Wedding but it hamfisted a satisfying conclusion to a series that stuttered and struggled post GRM. Considering the holes D+D had dug for themselves, this was the best possible outcome; a beautifully directed 90 minutes of pulsating action that freed itself from the fantasy tropes that dominated episode 3 and much of the last two seasons.

Miguel Sapochnik has proven himself time and time again to be a very good director, even if the script that he was working with wasn't great.

Paddy Cow · 14-05-2019 03:29PM

snotboogie wrote: »

I don't see how this episode would cause anybody to turn on the show. The plot holes in this episode are far smaller than what have been on show previously, most seemed willing to tolerate Tryion (one of the smartest people in the realm) concocting a totally implausible plan to send the most important person in the world North of the wall, greatly risking his life, to recover a zombie, all for the tiny chance of convincing Cersie to fight with them? Same for Jamie being two feet away from a dragon submerged and drowning in full armor and him inexplicably popping up a few kilometers away totally safe? People were ok with the Night King, a literal King on the chess board, who has had thousands of years to plan his attack, putting himself in danger while he is destroying his opposition, only to be killed by a teenage girl assassin who literally flies out of nowhere? They are ok to tolerate Cersie having a clear line of sight with dozens of weapons and an army at her disposal to an almost defenseless Danny and just chopping her best friends head off and letting Danny go back to regroup so that Cersie can can have everything that is important to her obliterated?

While the points raised here about the plot holes in this episode are correct, it was stupid to have Euron wash up next to Jamie, in comparison to some of the happenstances in the last season and a half it's barely worth mentioning. I don't see how this could be the breaking point for anyone? It's at least plausible, unlike say Arya being stabbed in the gut five times and having no lasting impact at all. Same for Danny going mad, it didn't totally add up but there was just enough background for them to sell it. As an ark it's far less egregious than the LittleFinger/Sansa/Arya debacle.

The big difference I see with this turn is that it wasn't fan servicey, it wasn't a cool attractive powerful woman destroying a detestable enemy on her dragon, it was the reality of war, a brutal destruction of mostly innocent people to seize and establish the power she so desperately wanted. It wasn't Arya, the unstoppable assassin, getting to her mountain top ending, silting the throat of her families nemesis, it was her confronting the consequences of revenge and walking away helpless to the carnage of the world, this reminded me of Omar buying a pack of cigarettes to conclude the his increasingly unbelievable ark. This certainly wasn't Walter White mowing down brainlessly evil Nazi's with a robot gun, an ending most seemed to love, it was a throwback to classic Game of Thrones, the horrible consequences of understandable desires matched with the power to act on them but facing off with the inevitable consequences of how that very power changes them. Take the throne to act...

This didn't have the artful set up of the Red Wedding but it hamfisted a satisfying conclusion to a series that stuttered and struggled post GRM. Considering the holes D+D had dug for themselves, this was the best possible outcome; a beautifully directed 90 minutes of pulsating action that freed itself from the fantasy tropes that dominated episode 3 and much of the last two seasons.

I remember people thinking that was really stupid. I don't recall anyone thinking it was a brilliant idea. Pretty much all the plot holes you pointed out were from season 7 and they were also pointed out as season 7 was airing. Season 7 is generally accepted as being a weak season, with only this season being weaker.

The first four seasons were stellar. 5 & 6 weren't on the same level but still good over all with some brilliant episodes. There has been a gradual drop off in quality. 7 & 8 are what you'd expect from a typical fantasy tv show - heros put in situations where the odds are stacked against them but miraculously survive etc. We didn't get that in the earlier episodes. Ned's beheading and the red wedding shocked non-book readers because they weren't used to the good guys losing out. That's what made the show stand out. Anyone could die.

In 8 we have shocks for the sake of shocks eg Euron shooting Rhaegal. The change in how the story is told is really jarring for anyone who has followed from season 1. I'm not giving up one episode from the finish but if the story had been told from the beginning in typical fantasy style, I don't think I would have made it through 8 episodes. I was an avid Walking Dead fan but gave up around season 7 because there was no end goal in sight and I got bored of the show. If GOT was open ended and not finishing next week, I'd drop it.

memorystick · 14-05-2019 03:37PM

Effects wrote: »

You've seen season 7, yeah?

Photoshopped

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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