Woman Loses Job for Holding Gender Critical Opinions.

Mrsmum · 11-05-2019 7:09pm

hcf500 wrote: »

When someone transitions to a woman, they become a women and take part in womens sports! It just means that there is new competition that may be better that you! No point throwing a tantrum, put some of that energy and hatred into better training!

Look that's totally ridiculous. Male to female trans people competing in female sports is like a farmer taking a sheep to market and insisting it's a cow to get a better price. He can believe what he likes, nobody minds but the minute he starts looking for unfair advantage, other people has to fall back on facts. Same unfair advantage in sports which has to be stopped in it's tracks.

VicMackey1 · 11-05-2019 7:19pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

Male to female trans people competing in female sports is like a farmer taking a sheep to market and insisting it's a cow to get a better price.

It would be more like taking a cow to the mart and insisting it is a sheep to get a better price! Pound for pound sheeps are more valuable. Sorry, Carry on!

crybaby · 11-05-2019 7:24pm

Zorya wrote: »

The gender threads will continue Princess because it is a major human rights issue in the present time. The erasure of women and especially lesbians is ongoing so the discussions should continue.

The issue is not about mere pronouns, that is completely reductive. You would have to read the source material to see its scope. It is about bodily integrity, safe spaces, fairness in sports, among other important issues. No one gives a continental damn about mere pronouns.

The erasure of women, that's a new one.

Zorya · 11-05-2019 7:28pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Oh look, the science denier who doesn't like scientists having opinions based on science.
A person who medically transitions has gone through extensive counselling, psychology, psychiatry and endocrinologists on board. This is Ireland, not the USA with your denial opinions based on fantasy or religious conservatism politik.
I.

100 Irish children have been treated at Tavistock GIDS in the past 3 years.

The Governor of the board of Tavistock resigned about 2 months ago citing the fast tracking of treatment of children with dysphoria and bullying from activists and children having been coached on what to say at meetings. Several other senior medical personnel have also resigned of late. Staff have described children getting hormones after one visit. A leaked report described the clinic as not fit for purpose. The UK government has launched enquiries into treatment of children. The Swedish government has suspended affirmation treatments of children as medical personnel have also complained there of fast tracking and limited follow up. An enquiry has been started.

How Soon Is Now · 11-05-2019 7:30pm

In all the years I've been on here I've come across a lot of self proclaimed "champions" of lgbt rights!

Jesus talk about self riotous pretentious people who don't listen to any other opinions other then the ones they support.

There the very same ones who then wonder why there's hostility towards certain aspects of the lgbt community on here! Especially certain trans issues.

I just don't understand what there aiming to achieve by acting the way they do!

sabat · 11-05-2019 7:37pm

Here it is from the horses' mouth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxVmSGTgNxI

Interestingly they all seemed to go through the phase at the age (15-19) when kids join a teenage tribe/youth culture movement like goth or rocker before growing out of it in early adulthood. A youtube search for "detransitioning" brings up hundreds of similar stories.

Candamir · 11-05-2019 7:38pm

Candamir wrote: »

If my son transitioned to female and competed in girls sports with the full benefit of his male body and male hormones I would consider that unfair and akin to cheating. I would not support him/her.

klaaaz wrote: »

Neither would I.

I’m glad to hear that Klaaaz.
My opinion on trans women competing in women’s sports (which we’ve discussed in the other thread) is really an extension of this.
While the advantage for trans woman with artificially lowered testosterone levels is less, I still feel it’s too great an advantage to be fair. Seeing trans women (who were nowhere near the top of their game as men) dominating women’s sports bears this out.

klaaaz · 11-05-2019 7:40pm

Zorya wrote: »

100 Irish children have been treated at Tavistock GIDS in the past 3 years.

The Governor of the board of Tavistock resigned about 2 months ago citing the fast tracking of treatment of children with dysphoria and bullying from activists and children having been coached on what to say at meetings. Several other senior medical personnel have also resigned of late. Staff have described children getting hormones after one visit. A leaked report described the clinic as not fit for purpose. The UK government has launched enquiries into treatment of children. The Swedish government has suspended affirmation treatments of children as medical personnel have also complained there of fast tracking and limited follow up. An enquiry has been started.

So you speak up for One eyed Jack then?

Only 12 people under 18(10 of which were female at birth) out of 900,000 plus pupils under 18 have obtained gender recognition certs in this country(Ireland for you). (source PrimeTime)

It's quite amazing that you quote the welfare of children immediately when ignoring adults decisions from which my post was aimed at and which the vast majority of transitions involve in Ireland(assuming you actually live here)

Where have been your posts on children who are in the care of Tusla, in dodgy foster homes, 230,000 growing up in poverty in Ireland (https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/social-justice-ireland-one-in-five-irish-children-living-in-poverty-917712.html ) but yet you have solely concentrated on one youngfella in drag in a far away country which has nothing to do with us or the LGBT community in Ireland. But hey, 230,000 kids in this country struggling to feed themselves is not your priority.

klaaaz · 11-05-2019 7:47pm

Candamir wrote: »

I’m glad to hear that Klaaaz.
My opinion on trans women competing in women’s sports (which we’ve discussed in the other thread) is really an extension of this.
While the advantage for trans woman with artificially lowered testosterone levels is less, I still feel it’s too great an advantage to be fair. Seeing trans women (who were nowhere near the top of their game as men) dominating women’s sports bears this out.

Hi Candamir, since I joined boards I have always been against self-ID trans women competing in women's sports. It's nothing new, you can search my past posts if you like. And yes, i'm against what is happening in far away America(was it Connecticut in some high school?) having those two runners winning races in sprints, it's not right as I recognise that the bodies of both men's and women's are different, self-ID runners have zero hormonal interruption and that is wrong for them to compete in women's races.

The IAAF and the Olympics overseers also ban it(zero hormonal interruption), so whatever is going on in that US state is totally wrong and I strongly disagree with it.

One eyed Jack · 11-05-2019 7:50pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Oh look, the science denier who doesn't like scientists having opinions based on science.

“Opinions based on science”, what does that even mean? What opinions? Based upon what science?

An opinion that a person can change their sex has no scientific foundation, and an opinion that a person can choose what gender they are is a subjective belief, based entirely upon how they perceive themselves in in the society in which they live.

A person who medically transitions has gone through extensive counselling, psychology, psychiatry and endocrinologists on board. This is Ireland, not the USA with your denial opinions based on fantasy or religious conservatism politik.

Whether it’s Ireland or the USA is irrelevant with regard to the standards of care and the treatments provided to people who are diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and the increasing number of people whom you continue to ignore who identify themselves as transgender, while not experiencing gender dysphoria and having no wish to undergo medical or surgical treatments. Remember that self-ID we discussed already? All that’s required for their preferred gender identity to be acknowledged in Irish law is a certificate acknowledging their new identity.

It is none of your business as an 'anonymous' poster on boards whether a person transitions which is good for their mental health and frankly, your and other's input on this matter can be seriously damaging to a transgender person, hence I will never invite my transgender friends to boards.

Contrary to your belief, it absolutely is my business because Irish law, public health and education policies applies equally to me as it does to you, your friends and to everyone in this country. The issues with regard to transgender politics are greater than you and your besties deciding for yourselves that you now wish to be perceived in a way that pleases you. It certainly is my business with regard to Irish law and public health and education policies, and I can understand how it is most certainly damaging to people who disagree with my opinions to have to acknowledge the fact that people are not obligated to agree with how they wish themselves to be perceived. That’s where their mental health issues stem from - not from the fact that other people don’t accept them, but from the fact that they can’t accept themselves.

I don’t know why you’d think I care that you’ll never invite your besties to Boards, or what that’s about. Why would I care when I don’t care for people regardless of their gender who attempt to gaslight people into accepting something which they know is simply a falsehood?

Zorya · 11-05-2019 8:09pm

klaaaz wrote: »

i'm against what is happening in far away America(was it Connecticut in some high school?)

This idea of yours that what happens in ''far away'' America or even the UK is irrelevant here does not hold up. It's not another planet. Planes nd ideas travel easily.
I mentioned an anti-terf exhibition in San Francisco. Down the road is Los Angeles. There one finds Dr Johanna Olson, who is running one of the largest child clinics re gender dysphoria in the US. She got funding in 2017 to give testosterone to girls and estrogen to boys from 8 years old. She prescribes removal of healthy breasts from 12 and 13 year old girls.
She gave public lectures and department seminars in Bristol University on her chosen topic in April of this year. Bristol is 200 miles away from Dublin. Does it have to happen on your back garden before it is relevant to us?

klaaaz · 11-05-2019 8:10pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

“Opinions based on science”, what does that even mean? What opinions? Based upon what science?

If you have been following this thread and not falling asleep, you denied scientists having scientific opinions and blamed politics in your tin foil hat conspiracy.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

An opinion that a person can change their sex has no scientific foundation, and an opinion that a person can choose what gender they are is a subjective belief, based entirely upon how they perceive themselves in in the society in which they live.

Yes it has, we discussed this extensively already. It's ok for you to deny science.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Whether it’s Ireland or the USA is irrelevant with regard to the standards of care and the treatments provided to people who are diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and the increasing number of people whom you continue to ignore who identify themselves as transgender, while not experiencing gender dysphoria and having no wish to undergo medical or surgical treatments. Remember that self-ID we discussed already? All that’s required for their preferred gender identity to be acknowledged in Irish law is a certificate acknowledging their new identity.

This is Ireland, welcome aboard. It has zero nadda nothing to do with you about a person having or not having gender dysphoria, you're not a part of the transgender treatment process here nor are you the person experiencing gender dysphoria. Your religious nonsense does not apply, yes I've read some of your many posts in the Atheism(challenging atheism rather than supportive) and Christianity forum, you've been found out where your bias lies.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Contrary to your belief, it absolutely is my business because Irish law, public health and education policies applies equally to me as it does to you, your friends and to everyone in this country. The issues with regard to transgender politics are greater than you and your besties deciding for yourselves that you now wish to be perceived in a way that pleases you. It certainly is my business with regard to Irish law and public health and education policies, and I can understand how it is most certainly damaging to people who disagree with my opinions to have to acknowledge the fact that people are not obligated to agree with how they wish themselves to be perceived. That’s where their mental health issues stem from - not from the fact that other people don’t accept them, but from the fact that they can’t accept themselves.

You'd have to explain how on earth in law, health and education how a person transitions affects you assuming you live here in Ireland??
You not accepting transgender people are part of the problem detrimental to their mental health, you are not an expert and have zero right to judge a person experiencing gender dysphoria so cut out your nonsense.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don’t know why you’d think I care that you’ll never invite your besties to Boards, or what that’s about. Why would I care when I don’t care for people regardless of their gender who attempt to gaslight people into accepting something which they know is simply a falsehood?

Oh they and others in the LGBT community will never at my best trying see the harmful judgemental sh1te that you and others say about their lives, thankfully boards is a tiny subset of the Irish population with less than an 1000 users in AH.

Feisar · 11-05-2019 8:20pm

hcf500 wrote: »

When someone transitions to a woman, they become a women and take part in womens sports! It just means that there is new competition that may be better that you! No point throwing a tantrum, put some of that energy and hatred into better training!

Do you have long hair and live on top of a pencil?

klaaaz · 11-05-2019 8:38pm

Zorya wrote: »

This idea of yours that what happens in ''far away'' America or even the UK is irrelevant here does not hold up. It's not another planet. Planes nd ideas travel easily.
I mentioned an anti-terf exhibition in San Francisco. Down the road is Los Angeles. There one finds Dr Johanna Olson, who is running one of the largest child clinics re gender dysphoria in the US. She got funding in 2017 to give testosterone to girls and estrogen to boys from 8 years old. She prescribes removal of healthy breasts from 12 and 13 year old girls.
She gave public lectures and department seminars in Bristol University on her chosen topic in April of this year. Bristol is 200 miles away from Dublin. Does it have to happen on your back garden before it is relevant to us?

So you totally ignore my reply to you which really means you don't care about children in this country. Yes America is very far away with 60 plus times the population of us. Bristol is the UK and that person gave a lecture, that person does not set policy in the NHS in the UK.

Where is your care for the 230,000 Irish kids living in poverty? Would you post about the frequent Irish children who go missing every few weeks? No you have not.
Oh but a child in drag in a far away foreign country is more important to you, call 1.800.422.4453 (USA number) for USA child protection services, I had to google that as we are not in the frigging USA unless they invade us upon finding lots of oil here.

One eyed Jack · 11-05-2019 9:04pm

klaaaz wrote: »

If you have been following this thread and not falling asleep, you denied scientists having scientific opinions and blamed politics in your tin foil hat conspiracy.

Yes it has, we discussed this extensively already. It's ok for you to deny science.

It’s quite clear from how you talk about it that you’re pretending you don’t understand what science actually is, nor it’s function.

This is Ireland, welcome aboard. It has zero nadda nothing to do with you about a person having or not having gender dysphoria, you're not a part of the transgender treatment process here nor are you the person experiencing gender dysphoria. Your religious nonsense does not apply, yes I've read some of your many posts in the Atheism(challenging atheism rather than supportive) and Christianity forum, you've been found out where your bias lies.

I’ve already explained to you how it does apply, and because this is indeed Ireland and we’re not confined to arguing within the confined structures of your beliefs, my religious nonsense applies and is given equal recognition in law as much as your nonsense which is based upon your beliefs.

You’re also doing that thing again where you imagine that a condition like gender dysphoria gives a shìte about a person’s beliefs, whether they be religious, non-religious, atheist, whatever. You’re also trying the divide and conquer strategy again where you imagine that people can’t share a common interest regardless of their scientific, political, social or religious beliefs.

Your belief that they have to be contradictory is based entirely upon your own, well, quite frankly- ignorance. The existence of people who are a combination of many or all of these identities serves as empirical evidence that you are simply wrong -

I'm Proud To Be a Transgender Catholic

You'd have to explain how on earth in law, health and education how a person transitions affects you assuming you live here in Ireland??
You not accepting transgender people are part of the problem detrimental to their mental health, you are not an expert and have zero right to judge a person experiencing gender dysphoria so cut out your nonsense.

I’ve already explained to you that these laws and policies apply to everyone in Irish society regardless of whether they themselves are transgender or not. For example the Gender Recognition Act allows for children to be subjected to treatment for gender dysphoria without requiring parental consent if it is determined that it is in the best interests of the child to go ahead with treatment without seeking parental consent. If my child were to identify themselves as transgender in the morning, there is the potential there for them to be put on the path to being subjected to psychological and psychiatric treatment and medical and surgical treatments without my consent.

If you’re going to argue that a person choosing to be regarded in law as their preferred gender has no effect on me, then the opposite of that is also true - the fact that I do not share their belief that a person can change their sex, has no effect on them! Which is it, or do you want it both ways? It’s your own nonsense is faulty here in suggesting I have no right to judge a person experiencing gender dysphoria - you simply don’t have the authority to make that determination.

As it turns out, I absolutely do, according to Irish and International Human Rights Law, I do have the right to judge a person experiencing gender dysphoria. You may want to take a refresher course in Human Rights Law before you imagine you have any authority to tell me what rights I do and do not have. Pay particular attention to the laws regarding freedom of expression and so on, any laws related to beliefs and thoughts. I still have those, and there’s not a whole lot you’re ever going to be able to do about that, much as you may want to.

Oh they and others in the LGBT community will never at my best trying see the harmful judgemental sh1te that you and others say about their lives, thankfully boards is a tiny subset of the Irish population with less than an 1000 users in AH.

Ehh... good for them? The people who agree with you at least, the people who don’t, it’s quite obvious you have no qualms about throwing them under the bus.

klaaaz · 11-05-2019 9:28pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’ve already explained to you how it does apply, and because this is indeed Ireland and we’re not confined to arguing within the confined structures of your beliefs, my religious nonsense applies and is given equal recognition in law as much as your nonsense which is based upon your beliefs.

Religious nonsense does not apply in the treatment of gender dysphoria. There is ZERO religious interference in the Irish pathway for a medical or even non-medical transition. You wish it be but we have moved on from religious interference in peoples lives a long time ago. Go join the religious monks if it suits you.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You’re also doing that thing again where you imagine that a condition like gender dysphoria gives a shìte about a person’s beliefs, whether they be religious, non-religious, atheist, whatever. You’re also trying the divide and conquer strategy again where you imagine that people can’t share a common interest regardless of their scientific, political, social or religious beliefs.

Your belief that they have to be contradictory is based entirely upon your own, well, quite frankly- ignorance. The existence of people who are a combination of many or all of these identities serves as empirical evidence that you are simply wrong -
I'm Proud To Be a Transgender Catholic

That link is behind a wall, surprise surprise from the transgender and science deniers. The Catholic church are no fans of transgender people, a certain recent pope compared transgender people to a nuclear bomb. A person being transgender, Lesbian, Gay or Bisexual has nothing to do with your religious beliefs. Don't try and convert them as it has ZERO none of your business in their private lives.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’ve already explained to you that these laws and policies apply to everyone in Irish society regardless of whether they themselves are transgender or not. For example the Gender Recognition Act allows for children to be subjected to treatment for gender dysphoria without requiring parental consent if it is determined that it is in the best interests of the child to go ahead with treatment without seeking parental consent. If my child were to identify themselves as transgender in the morning, there is the potential there for them to be put on the path to being subjected to psychological and psychiatric treatment and medical and surgical treatments without my consent.

If you’re going to argue that a person choosing to be regarded in law as their preferred gender has no effect on me, then the opposite of that is also true - the fact that I do not share their belief that a person can change their sex, has no effect on them! Which is it, or do you want it both ways? It’s your own nonsense is faulty here in suggesting I have no right to judge a person experiencing gender dysphoria - you simply don’t have the authority to make that determination.

That Act refers to children between the ages of 16 and 18 and they need parental consent to change gender.

It has ZERO none of your business what a person aged 18 and over does in their private life, try stop being judgemental. If others were being judgemental on you, you won't like it.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

As it turns out, I absolutely do, according to Irish and International Human Rights Law, I do have the right to judge a person experiencing gender dysphoria. You may want to take a refresher course in Human Rights Law before you imagine you have any authority to tell me what rights I do and do not have. Pay particular attention to the laws regarding freedom of expression and so on, any laws related to beliefs and thoughts. I still have those, and there’s not a whole lot you’re ever going to be able to do about that, much as you may want to.

Go on, you as a private citizen allegedly of Ireland, what gives you the right to judge others?

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ehh... good for them? The people who agree with you at least, the people who don’t, it’s quite obvious you have no qualms about throwing them under the bus.

I've actually joined my LGBT friends in Pride a few times unlike you stuck in some remote apartment block somewhere(your description), when I see a loo-la holding up that sign "thou shall be judged" or some crap like that, i'll tell them that is Jack from some online site, I will not say boards in order to protect them from....loo-la's.

One eyed Jack · 11-05-2019 9:59pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Religious nonsense does not apply in the treatment of gender dysphoria. There is ZERO religious interference in the Irish pathway for a medical or even non-medical transition. You wish it be but we have moved on from religious interference in peoples lives a long time ago. Go join the religious monks if it suits you.

You’re either misguided, or purposely pretending to be ignorant of how people experiencing gender dysphoria are treated. All of their circumstances are looked at from the perspective of family, lifestyle, psychological and social factors, including whether you’re aware of it or not, their religion and the influence of their beliefs upon their perceptions and perspectives.

That link is behind a wall, surprise surprise from the transgender and science deniers. The Catholic church are no fans of transgender people, a certain recent pope compared transgender people to a nuclear bomb. A person being transgender, Lesbian, Gay or Bisexual has nothing to do with your religious beliefs. Don't try and convert them as it has ZERO none of your business in their private lives.

And again you’re just wrong, in so many ways. I’ll be brief though - the link isn’t behind a paywall, that’s cookie consent. The Catholic Church takes no position one way or the other with regard to people solely on the basis that they are transgender. A person’s perceptions and perspectives with regard to how they perceive themselves can be influenced by their religious beliefs, as I’ve already demonstrated to you. We’ve already cleared up the fact that you don’t speak on behalf of anyone but yourself.

And finally- I’m not the person is trying to convert anyone to their beliefs. YOU brought up what you imagine are my religious beliefs in this conversation. I didn’t. You brought them up as part of your attempts to divide and distract people from your own beliefs. You did the same yesterday when you tried to pit myself and Zorya against each other. It didn’t work then, it’s not going to work now, so if you’re now arguing that my religious beliefs are irrelevant, then you shouldn’t have brought them up in the first place.

That Act refers to children between the ages of 16 and 18 and they need parental consent to change gender.

It has ZERO none of your business what a person aged 18 and over does in their private life, try stop being judgemental. If others were being judgemental on you, you won't like it.

You’re being judgemental as you like throughout this thread, bit rich for you to be telling others not to be judgemental when throughput the vast majority of your posts you’re demonstrating just how judgemental you are yourself. I have no issue with being judged by other people, you certainly aren’t the first to do it :pac:

Go on, you as a private citizen allegedly of Ireland, what gives you the right to judge others?

I told you already - freedom of expression and freedom of conscience. They’re the same rights that permit you the freedom to express yourself as your preferred gender, and protect my right to disagree with you.

I've actually joined my LGBT friends in Pride a few times unlike you stuck in some remote apartment block somewhere(your description), when I see a loo-la holding up that sign "thou shall be judged" or some crap like that, i'll tell them that is Jack from some online site, I will not say boards in order to protect them from....loo-la's.

Klaaaz I was involved in organising Pride parades before your arse was as big as a shirt button. I stopped because I didn’t care much for their politics any more.

Candamir · 11-05-2019 10:04pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Hi Candamir, since I joined boards I have always been against self-ID trans women competing in women's sports. It's nothing new, you can search my past posts if you like. And yes, i'm against what is happening in far away America(was it Connecticut in some high school?) having those two runners winning races in sprints, it's not right as I recognise that the bodies of both men's and women's are different, self-ID runners have zero hormonal interruption and that is wrong for them to compete in women's races.

The IAAF and the Olympics overseers also ban it(zero hormonal interruption), so whatever is going on in that US state is totally wrong and I strongly disagree with it.

It’s the entire state of Connecticut, and I believe it’s not the only one. I’m not sure there’s any reason it couldn’t happen here, so it is a worry.

There’s a vocal minority who believe that transgender women should be able to compete with no hormonal suppression - Rachael McKinnion (a world masters cycling champion). She argues that endogenous testosterone confers no advantage to transgender women athletes, and she accuses anyone who disagrees with her, such as Martina Navratilova, of being transphobic. (She called Navratilova an ‘absolute transphone’ and she was subsequently booted off Athlete Ally)
I wish that the majority in the transgender community would speak up and not allow her be the de facto spokesperson.

klaaaz · 11-05-2019 10:13pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You’re either misguided, or purposely pretending to be ignorant of how people experiencing gender dysphoria are treated. All of their circumstances are looked at from the perspective of family, lifestyle, psychological and social factors, including whether you’re aware of it or not, their religion and the influence of their beliefs upon their perceptions and perspectives.

Oh I do know how it's treated, no need for a lecture from yourself. Religion is often cited as a damaging aspect for when a person is experiencing gender dysphoria, family members who would never accept a trans son or daughter use religion as an excuse to never accept a transgender member of their family, that's how your beloved religion is damaging.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

And again you’re just wrong, in so many ways. I’ll be brief though - the link isn’t behind a paywall, that’s cookie consent. The Catholic Church takes no position one way or the other with regard to people solely on the basis that they are transgender. A person’s perceptions and perspectives with regard to how they perceive themselves can be influenced by their religious beliefs, as I’ve already demonstrated to you. We’ve already cleared up the fact that you don’t speak on behalf of anyone but yourself.

And finally- I’m not the person is trying to convert anyone to their beliefs. YOU brought up what you imagine are my religious beliefs in this conversation. I didn’t. You brought them up as part of your attempts to divide and distract people from your own beliefs. You did the same yesterday when you tried to pit myself and Zorya against each other. It didn’t work then, it’s not going to work now, so if you’re now arguing that my religious beliefs are irrelevant, then you shouldn’t have brought them up in the first place.

The Catholic Church is no friend to transgender people comparing them to a nuclear bomb, that's a downright condemnation.

Yourself and Zorya are divided on gender, you believe in the 3rd gender outside Western civilisation, Zorya believes in a strict gender binary using her Canadian Debra Oh youtube video in opposition.You never oppose Zorya and her fellow believers, maybe you're afraid to speak up?

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You’re being judgemental as you like throughout this thread, bit rich for you to be telling others not to be judgemental when throughput the vast majority of your posts you’re demonstrating just how judgemental you are yourself. I have no issue with being judged by other people, you certainly aren’t the first to do it :pac:

I told you already - freedom of expression and freedom of conscience. They’re the same rights that permit you the freedom to express yourself as your preferred gender, and protect my right to disagree with you.

So from where gives you the right to judge LGBT people in what they do with their private lives?

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Klaaaz I was involved in organising Pride parades before your arse was as big as a shirt button. I stopped because I didn’t care much for their politics any more.

Oh sure, pull the other one Father Jack. Is my arse that big or small? :P

klaaaz · 11-05-2019 10:30pm

Candamir wrote: »

It’s the entire state of Connecticut, and I believe it’s not the only one. I’m not sure there’s any reason it couldn’t happen here, so it is a worry.

Has it happened here yet? We haven't heard of a case of a self-ID sports person taking advantage and to add, if it happens here in Ireland it is to be condemned as it damages trans rights. We should abide by IAAF and Olympic rules for sport.

Candamir wrote:

There’s a vocal minority who believe that transgender women should be able to compete with no hormonal suppression - Rachael McKinnion (a world masters cycling champion). She argues that endogenous testosterone confers no advantage to transgender women athletes, and she accuses anyone who disagrees with her, such as Martina Navratilova, of being transphobic. (She called Navratilova an ‘absolute transphone’ and she was subsequently booted off Athlete Ally)
I wish that the majority in the transgender community would speak up and not allow her be the de facto spokesperson.

Well, as I said way back then when I first registered here in one of the many trans related threads that that minority you speak of are indeed a minority within a minority. It's fecking realism that a self-ID trans woman has an advantage playing women's sport, that is not the first time I said that and my trans friends who have no voice would agree with me. They and I know that hormonal therapy changes everything, some have experienced the consequences, it's life changing.

As to Martina and this applies here too on this forum, there is quite a distinction that needs to be understood between a non-medical transition and a medical transition hence my pronouncement of transsexual rather than the transgender umbrella. A non-medical transition does indeed entail many advantages in women's sports. Martina never distinguished between the two hence the backlash against her. Not entirely her fault, the trans umbrella has expanded way too much to include too many who are not even trans.

Candamir · 11-05-2019 11:09pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Has it happened here yet? We haven't heard of a case of a self-ID sports person taking advantage and to add, if it happens here in Ireland it is to be condemned as it damages trans rights. We should abide by IAAF and Olympic rules for sport.

Not as far as I know, but we’ve a small trans population, and it’s probably only a matter of time. I believe in the gender recognition act, there originally was an exemption for sports, but activists insisted on taking it out, so I believe if a trans athlete wanted to run without hormonal suppression, they would have to be allowed.
It’s all well and good saying we should abide by the IAAF and IOC rules, but not all sports are governed by those rules. In fact they often only apply to the most elite levels, and then only Olympic sports. So while girls are leaving sports in their teens and earlier, and we realise that we need to encourage them to play sports not only for physical and mental health reasons, but for the social skills they learn, we risk alienating more and more of them. The Boston Marathon - which is a holy grail for many marathoners because it’s difficult to make the qualifying time - only requires self ID to register as a woman. BAA rules (regarding testosterone levels) only come into play if there’s prize money involved. But for every trans woman who qualifies with her male body and hormonal advantage, one biological woman misses out on a very hard fought for place. That’s just not right.

klaaaz wrote: »

As to Martina and this applies here too on this forum, there is quite a distinction that needs to be understood between a non-medical transition and a medical transition hence my pronouncement of transsexual rather than the transgender umbrella. A non-medical transition does indeed entail many advantages in women's sports. Martina never distinguished between the two hence the backlash against her. Not entirely her fault, the trans umbrella has expanded way too much to include too many who are not even trans.

Well this is what Navratilova said that started the backlash - tbh I can’t see any justification for it.

“You can’t just proclaim yourself a female and be able to compete against women,” I tweeted. “There must be some standards, and having a penis and competing as a woman would not fit that standard.”

klaaaz · 11-05-2019 11:32pm

Candamir wrote: »

Not as far as I know, but we’ve a small trans population, and it’s probably only a matter of time. I believe in the gender recognition act, there originally was an exemption for sports, but activists insisted on taking it out, so I believe if a trans athlete wanted to run without hormonal suppression, they would have to be allowed.
It’s all well and good saying we should abide by the IAAF and IOC rules, but not all sports are governed by those rules. In fact they often only apply to the most elite levels, and then only Olympic sports. So while girls are leaving sports in their teens and earlier, and we realise that we need to encourage them to play sports not only for physical and mental health reasons, but for the social skills they learn, we risk alienating more and more of them. The Boston Marathon - which is a holy grail for many marathoners because it’s difficult to make the qualifying time - only requires self ID to register as a woman. BAA rules (regarding testosterone levels) only come into play if there’s prize money involved. But for every trans woman who qualifies with her male body and hormonal advantage, one biological woman misses out on a very hard fought for place. That’s just not right.

Agree, self-ID is where the issue rears it's head in sports and also with an infamous poster here who is obsessed with the UK debate there. Think from memory, there have been about 300 GRC issued in Ireland since 2015. That aside, do you know the rules here for qualification for athletics/any sport at an amateur level on trans? It seems super quiet on the Irish front regarding sport trans-related.

Well this is what Navratilova said that started the backlash - tbh I can’t see any justification for it.

Martina wrote:

“You can’t just proclaim yourself a female and be able to compete against women,” I tweeted. “There must be some standards, and having a penis and competing as a woman would not fit that standard.”

Martina must have meant self ID in this instance. Referencing genitals does not help matters in "moral speak"

, I know as it's a sensitive subject and its really hormonal therapy that counts in a race.
By the way, there has been no champions, zero medal winners at anything since transsexuals(medical transition) people were first allowed to compete in the Olympics since rules were introduced in 2004(no champs either in IAAF meets).
There was no avalanche of people transitioning to avail of trophies, now call me hardline as a trans advocate that I agree that rules like this were there to stop abuse. Once a person transitions it's a bloody serious transition, it's a serious genuine step thru surgery to be who a person is.
Thing is, some posters here object to transsexuals(the full medical transition) competing at anything based on their conservative ideals, as stated there have been zero medal winners at anything among transsexuals when they were first allowed to compete nearly 20 years ago.

One eyed Jack · 11-05-2019 11:54pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Oh I do know how it's treated, no need for a lecture from yourself. Religion is often cited as a damaging aspect for when a person is experiencing gender dysphoria, family members who would never accept a trans son or daughter use religion as an excuse to never accept a transgender member of their family, that's how your beloved religion is damaging.

You didn’t appear to be aware of it when you remarked that religious nonsense does not apply in the treatment of gender dysphoria. I’m glad we had the opportunity to clear up that little misunderstanding on your part. It appears to have been the case that it was irrelevant in your circumstances, which would be at least a far more accurate statement given you would only be speaking for yourself.

The Catholic Church is no friend to transgender people comparing them to a nuclear bomb, that's a downright condemnation.

Again, one person saying something stupid does not represent the beliefs and opinions of all the people within that group. It would be like if I regarded your beliefs and opinions as representative of anyone else but yourself. I don’t. Catholic doctrine, and I am telling you this for a fact, does not take a position one way or the other on people solely on the basis that they identify themselves as transgender. There is nothing in Catholic doctrine which suggests that people who are transgender will be excommunicated from the Catholic Church.

That’s irrelevant according to you, and yet you’re the person who keeps bringing it up, and then telling me not to be judgemental and not to be trying to convert people. I know why you’re trying to bring it up, but if you’re not religious, then by your own standards - what does it matter to you?

Yourself and Zorya are divided on gender, you believe in the 3rd gender outside Western civilisation, Zorya believes in a strict gender binary using her Canadian Debra Oh youtube video in opposition.You never oppose Zorya and her fellow believers, maybe you're afraid to speak up?

The fact you’re aware of our differences of opinion regarding gender shows that neither myself nor Zorya are afraid to speak up. We’ve spoken up, and we’re speaking up, and that’s how you’re aware of our differences and why you’re trying to use them to deflect and divert from your own beliefs about sex! It’s just more of your categorising people according to your own political world view, or rather categorising people according to those who agree with you, and those who don’t.

You try to play down the experiences of people with gender dysphoria and those people who identify themselves as transgender who don’t share your beliefs, and try and distract and deflect attention from them, because having to include them in the conversation would mean your beliefs would come under increasing scrutiny. Thankfully for those people and for everyone else in society, they aren’t afraid to speak up for themselves either, and you don’t like it one bit.

So from where gives you the right to judge LGBT people in what they do with their private lives?

I told you already - freedom of conscience and freedom of expression. They’re the same laws that give you the right to judge people in what they do in their private lives, and you can’t say you don’t do it because you’ve demonstrated throughout this thread that you have no problem doing it in an attempt to undermine people when you can’t address their arguments. It’s just more deflect and project strategy you’re gaining quite a reputation for doing.

Oh sure, pull the other one Father Jack. Is my arse that big or small? :P

I never asked you to believe me. I’m simply pointing out that your assumptions about people on the basis of whether or not they agree or disagree with you are more likely to be inaccurate and flawed as your beliefs about human biology, human rights and a whole host of other beliefs you make about people who aren’t you, while attempting to criticise anyone else who is doing what you’re doing, according to you. I’d respectfully suggest you go and take a long hard look in the mirror before you start criticising other people.

klaaaz · 12-05-2019 12:19am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You didn’t appear to be aware of it when you remarked that religious nonsense does not apply in the treatment of gender dysphoria. I’m glad we had the opportunity to clear up that little misunderstanding on your part. It appears to have been the case that it was irrelevant in your circumstances, which would be at least a far more accurate statement given you would only be speaking for yourself.

Religious doctrine has ZERO part to play in the treatment of transgender people but that religious doctrine has played a part in dividing families when a member of that family comes out, religion is so damaging.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Again, one person saying something stupid does not represent the beliefs and opinions of all the people within that group. It would be like if I regarded your beliefs and opinions as representative of anyone else but yourself. I don’t. Catholic doctrine, and I am telling you this for a fact, does not take a position one way or the other on people solely on the basis that they identify themselves as transgender. There is nothing in Catholic doctrine which suggests that people who are transgender will be excommunicated from the Catholic Church.

That’s irrelevant according to you, and yet you’re the person who keeps bringing it up, and then telling me not to be judgemental and not to be trying to convert people. I know why you’re trying to bring it up, but if you’re not religious, then by your own standards - what does it matter to you?

He is/was your Pope who said that about transgender people, head of your Catholic church. Ball is in your court Father Jack.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The fact you’re aware of our differences of opinion regarding gender shows that neither myself nor Zorya are afraid to speak up. We’ve spoken up, and we’re speaking up, and that’s how you’re aware of our differences and why you’re trying to use them to deflect and divert from your own beliefs about sex! It’s just more of your categorising people according to your own political world view, or rather categorising people according to those who agree with you, and those who don’t.

You try to play down the experiences of people with gender dysphoria and those people who identify themselves as transgender who don’t share your beliefs, and try and distract and deflect attention from them, because having to include them in the conversation would mean your beliefs would come under increasing scrutiny. Thankfully for those people and for everyone else in society, they aren’t afraid to speak up for themselves either, and you don’t like it one bit.

So says the one who proclaims a transgender person "should accept who they are" and your famous quote

One eyed Jack being judgemental of transgender people wrote:

to learn to accept who they are rather than put that responsibility on anyone else to accept them for who and what they aren’t.

You don't give a crap about LGBT people's lives with your religious dogma even trying force your warped views on them. Ireland is secular, accept the reality that you cannot force people to abide by your warped religious views.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I told you already - freedom of conscience and freedom of expression. They’re the same laws that give you the right to judge people in what they do in their private lives, and you can’t say you don’t do it because you’ve demonstrated throughout this thread that you have no problem doing it in an attempt to undermine people when you can’t address their arguments. It’s just more deflect and project strategy you’re gaining quite a reputation for doing.

Freemason stuff, off with the fairies with you. Gemma is looking for support in her election, you would fit right in.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I never asked you to believe me. I’m simply pointing out that your assumptions about people on the basis of whether or not they agree or disagree with you are more likely to be inaccurate and flawed as your beliefs about human biology, human rights and a whole host of other beliefs you make about people who aren’t you, while attempting to criticise anyone else who is doing what you’re doing, according to you. I’d respectfully suggest you go and take a long hard look in the mirror before you start criticising other people.

On this you proclaim human rights yet deny the human rights of LGBT people to be what they are. Oh, I've looked in the mirror at my beautiful self and i'm proud to say that i'm a supporter of LGBT rights, at the end of the day I don't give a feck what people are as long as they are respectable, I never judge, i'm open minded unlike narrow minded folk.

One eyed Jack · 12-05-2019 12:29am

klaaaz wrote: »

On this you proclaim human rights yet deny the human rights of LGBT people to be what they are.

Again, you appear to think people who identify themselves as either lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender are all one homogeneous group who share the same beliefs you do. You ignore the fact that the vast majority of people, regardless of their sex, gender or sexual orientation, do not share your political ideology. Fact is - it’s only a tiny minority who actually do, and they’re discovering that people aren’t taken in by their pity politics and trying to make people feel guilty for telling the minority who share your beliefs, to naff off.

Oh, I've looked in the mirror at my beautiful self and i'm proud to say that i'm a supporter of LGBT rights, at the end of the day I don't give a feck what people are as long as they are respectable, I never judge, i'm open minded unlike narrow minded folk.

Bollocks.

And frankly on that note I’ll leave it there, as I’ve given you enough attention already.

Danzy · 12-05-2019 12:35am

Klaaz would have been a cardinal at 40 a generation ago, put McQuaid in to a small Parish for being too open.

klaaaz · 12-05-2019 1:04am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Again, you appear to think people who identify themselves as either lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender are all one homogeneous group who share the same beliefs you do. You ignore the fact that the vast majority of people, regardless of their sex, gender or sexual orientation, do not share your political ideology. Fact is - it’s only a tiny minority who actually do, and they’re discovering that people aren’t taken in by their pity politics and trying to make people feel guilty for telling the minority who share your beliefs, to naff off.

Oh this again, portraying your religious involvement in the LGBT movement, that's quite a laugh Jack as the religious movement are quite hostile to LGBT people persecuting them for decades, particularly the Catholic Church in this country. Young people have been persecuted because of their orientation, your kind of way will never rule again, secularism is here to stay for good.

The LGBT community just want to be left alone to be themselves that includes all the L, G, B and T, I have friends belonging to all. Yet there are those here on boards trying to divide us., everyone of the community are still together in Ireland.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Bollocks.

And frankly on that note I’ll leave it there, as I’ve given you enough attention already.

It must really bother you that you finally met a poster who is actually involved* in the Dublin LGBT and yes I have actually being photographed in mainstream news marching as an ally. We as a group thoroughly reject your religious ideology to convert LGBT people and shall march as a one wholesome group on June 29th with Pride as the name suggests. You're welcome to protest with your placard "thou shall be judged!", just don't get offended and upset when people laugh at you!

That star indicates that i'm not a core organiser, i'm not a part of the inner core team if that sounds right but am associated with them, I know alot of them personally who are really good folk. I found this site by accident over 6 months ago, it was the 6th result in Google on something totally unrelated. Maybe it bothers you and others that you actually hear someone from the "coal face" of the LGBT community especially the trans contingent, oops I stepped on your toes!

Danzy · 12-05-2019 2:15am

klaaaz wrote: »

Oh this again, portraying your religious involvement in the LGBT movement, that's quite a laugh Jack as the religious movement are quite hostile to LGBT people persecuting them for decades, particularly the Catholic Church in this country. Young people have been persecuted because of their orientation, your kind of way will never rule again, secularism is here to stay for good.

The LGBT community just want to be left alone to be themselves that includes all the L, G, B and T, I have friends belonging to all. Yet there are those here on boards trying to divide us., everyone of the community are still together in Ireland.

It must really bother you that you finally met a poster who is actually involved* in the Dublin LGBT and yes I have actually being photographed in mainstream news marching as an ally. We as a group thoroughly reject your religious ideology to convert LGBT people and shall march as a one wholesome group on June 29th with Pride as the name suggests. You're welcome to protest with your placard "thou shall be judged!", just don't get offended and upset when people laugh at you!

That star indicates that i'm not a core organiser, i'm not a part of the inner core team if that sounds right but am associated with them, I know alot of them personally who are really good folk. I found this site by accident over 6 months ago, it was the 6th result in Google on something totally unrelated. Maybe it bothers you and others that you actually hear someone from the "coal face" of the LGBT community especially the trans contingent, oops I stepped on your toes!

I'm still not sure of you are a radical Catholic troll or genuine.

klaaaz · 12-05-2019 2:30am

Danzy wrote: »

Klaaz would have been a cardinal at 40 a generation ago, put McQuaid in to a small Parish for being too open.

Danzy wrote: »

I'm still not sure of you are a radical Catholic troll or genuine.

Me Catholick, really? A Catholic(the true version from which there is an ageing dwindling number) does not envision individual freedoms as church doctrine has to be abided by the faithful there.

I'm not sure which Dan i'm speaking to here as there have been 3 Dans of various sorts replying to this thread, are ye all related? :P

Oh and the Catholic cardinals(including the Pope) all wear dresses, does that make them crossdressers and perhaps questioning their gender as the conservative posters say that they are violating the "gender norms" ?

KikiLaRue · 12-05-2019 8:44am

recedite wrote: »

So you think its fine for a homosexual boss to fire a homophobe worker, but if it happens the other way round you throw a hissy fit?

Is it not possible that people could just "agree to disagree" about their private lives/private views, and just get on with the work?

See, this is the problem with the LGBT lobby these days. You have gone from oppressed minority to oppressor minority.

Yes. Are you honestly telling me you don’t see the difference between sacking someone for being gay and sacking someone for being homophobic?

Clue: You have the right to be gay and it’s enshrined in law, there is no right to be homophobic.

This is not oppressive.

Woman Loses Job for Holding Gender Critical Opinions.

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