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Peter Mcverrys support for syringe criminal.

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Comments

  • #272
    SouthDublin6w
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 203 ✭✭SouthDublin6w


    Hal3000 wrote: »
    Holding a syringe up to someone for a start. Any crime that isn't petty crime should be 3 strike rule backed up by strong sentencing for first 2 offences. Have you been reading the news lately ? There are dangerous criminals being released back into our society on a daily basis... How people aren't concerned about this is beyond me.

    So you feel prison has failed, the government has failed- Prisoners aren't being rehabilitated while incarcerated?


  • #273
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    SouthDublin6w wrote: »
    So you feel prison has failed, the government has failed- Prisoners aren't being rehabilitated while incarcerated?

    Clearly !!


  • #274
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Hal3000 wrote: »
    Holding a syringe up to someone for a start. Any crime that isn't petty crime should be 3 strike rule backed up by strong sentencing for first 2 offences. Have you been reading the news lately ? There are dangerous criminals being released back into our society on a daily basis... How people aren't concerned about this is beyond me.

    For rape, murder, attempted murder and serious assault, I’d like to see sentences increase.

    But I’m also in favour of education and therapy while they are locked up because it’s the ONLY way to prevent them doing the same thing again when they get out.

    Unless you think a 22 year old who beats someone up should genuinely be jailed until he dies at 85 (a disproportionate punishment and very costly to the State), giving the guy some anger management skills and tools for coping with life is a good idea.

    Would you actually back a life sentence of 63 years for assault?


  • #275
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    For rape, murder, attempted murder and serious assault, I’d like to see sentences increase.

    But I’m also in favour of education and therapy while they are locked up because it’s the ONLY way to prevent them doing the same thing again when they get out.

    Unless you think a 22 year old who beats someone up should genuinely be jailed until he dies at 85 (a disproportionate punishment and very costly to the State), giving the guy some anger management skills and tools for coping with life is a good idea.

    Would you actually back a life sentence of 63 years for assault?

    3 strikes. 3 chances is enough for such a crime. Serious assault 10 years.


  • #276
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Hal3000 wrote: »
    3 strikes. 3 chances is enough for such a crime. Serious assault 10 years.

    I’m fine with 10 years for serious assault. It sickens me when I see men get 4-6 years for rape which happens often.

    We have to balance the ideas of taking a person out of society for a time, punishing them and rehabilitating them. That’s the only way for a just, humane society to work.


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  • #277
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    it would be nice if prison was a deterrent and that people are rehabilitated while inside. However, if these dont happen, at least the person is taken out of circulation and cant do any more harm while inside.


  • #278
    SouthDublin6w
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 203 ✭✭SouthDublin6w


    Hal3000 wrote: »
    Clearly !!

    Ok we are making progress if the penal system has failed. Rehabilitation isn't happening in a jail, I take it you support the justice budget being put into substance abuse rehabilitation to try that.


  • #279
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,118 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I dont want to demonize addicts or Peter Mc Verry or even the guy in the OP. But i just want to say victims are not the perfect son you dont need to worry about because they will be ok anyway. They have trauma and it interferes with life. They need help.

    I think there should be more support for victims if they want it. That's something I'd be happy to pay tax for along with rehab treatment for drug addicts.

    You don't even have to be a bleeding heart to support it. It's a question of what you want in society.

    Do you want more drug addicts who mug people for drug money (Or whatever other crimes) or fewer drug addicts?

    Do you want more traumatised mugging victims or fewer?

    If you want fewer victims it makes sense to have good rehab programmes. If you want fewer traumatised victims it makes sense to have good victim support.


  • #280
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,118 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Also maybe decriminalizing drugs ...it would drive the price down and make it easier for doctors to supply them.

    I think we should look at all kinds of options. My Mrs attended a training session on the use of psilocybin and MDMA in treating Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and addiction.

    psilocybin is the psychoactive part of magic mushrooms and MDMA is the active part of ecstasy. It involves micro doses so nobody is getting high but it has had some really interesting results. Research is really really hard to do because the drugs are illegal so it costs hundreds of thousands to get the permits to use the drugs and get the drugs made.

    That is completely separate from legalising drugs for recreational use. But for therapeutic use it is definitely worth researching to find out.


  • #281
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,118 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    We also have to remember drug addicts are victims themselves. Many are victims of sexual abuse or other abuse etc.

    The "lock em up" brigade won't want to hear this but my Mrs works with criminals and she will tell you that there are almost none of them who weren't abused or neglected as children. The things she hears are chilling. The thing that stands out most was a woman who effectively pimped out her own daughter from a young age. She said "it happened to me, why shouldn't it happen to her".

    That doesn't excuse what she did to her daughter. But it shows that the way to prevent it happening to future generations is to act now to help those who need help. If yo ignore them they have a much greater chance of becoming criminals themselves. (all the usual caveats - Not all people who were abused become abusers but almost all abusers were abuse victims themselves.)


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  • #282
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,118 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    His trust employs a lot of people and is in receipt of millions in government subsidies, he likes to lecture government on a regular basis, let him put his name on a ballot

    Christ he sets us a charity and you accuse him of ego. Imagine what you would say if he ran for office.

    Apart from anything else, he is only interested in charity work, not running the whole country or filling potholes. He can do more for the people he wants to help by lobbying government (lecturing as you call it). It would be a massive distraction to have to jump through all the hoops of becoming a politician and playing that game.

    If you don't like the guy, fine. But you're not making a convincing argument that the man who does charity work and drives a 2001 car has a massive ego or is in it for the celebrity.


  • #283
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,118 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    it would be nice if prison was a deterrent and that people are rehabilitated while inside. However, if these dont happen, at least the person is taken out of circulation and cant do any more harm while inside.

    Yes they can do harm while inside. Prisons are great places to get drugs. They can harm each other and prison staff. Prison is one of the most stressful environments that exists.

    The rates of mental illness in prison is around 80% in the UK and most of the other 20% are psychopaths who are probably thriving in prison. I don't know how much of that 80% is pre-existing before the person gets to prison vs how much is caused or triggered by prison


  • #284
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Edgware wrote: »
    What would Jesus have done?
    Remember him. Going around changing water into wine, knocking around with a prostitute and a group of sandal wearing hippies

    Probably decriminalised drugs in the manner of Portugal, basically ending the whole problem of people thieving to get drugs of variable strength cut with poison.


  • #285
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    And that's not to mention the fact that we don't have those billions to spend on health, education, roads etc which indirectly effects you every day.

    We've one of the highest health budgets in the world per capita.


  • #286
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Isn't that a good thing?

    The millions in subsidies he receives for homelessness goes on staff wages.


  • #287
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    The millions in subsidies he receives for homelessness goes on staff wages.

    How would you expect to support the homeless with no staff?? Come on man, think it through.


  • #288
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    I don't want to make any assumptions about you, and the kind of people you know, but I'd love you to speak to my sister.

    Although we're not rich, she had plenty of advantages growing up, and wanted for nothing,, had a good education etc; and yet her moment of awakening was stealing a nasty white wine in the local supermarket. My elder brother had to go down and pay for it. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

    Addiction affects people from all walks of life, and if I had a scientific hat, I'd put it on and say my sister is statistically likely to drink again.

    But everybody knows that if she didn't have family and supports, she'd be one of the Skangers you're so cynical about.

    As I type this, I'm conscious of the fact there are plenty of people in our town who hold the same opinions, yet she's probably doing an important job in their lives (which I don't even want to specify, and she probably often hears these rants)

    I can understand how the children of addicts must have grave resentments towards addiction, and I wouldn't even try to argue their experiences. But for the rest of us, who are the siblings or cousins or onlookers, I don't understand how you can look upon these people and deny their humanity, and your great luck in not being among them?

    I've a brother who was/is a coke addict. Brought trouble on the family home, attacked me with a machete when in a drug induced psychosis etc. He's pondscum. My mother doesn't see that and thinks he's grand and he's changed. I'll never talk to him again and if he disappeared tomorrow I wouldn't think a second thought of him.


  • #289
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I've a brother who was/is a coke addict. Brought trouble on the family home, attacked me with a machete when in a drug induced psychosis etc. He's pondscum. My mother doesn't see that and thinks he's grand and he's changed. I'll never talk to him again and if he disappeared tomorrow I wouldn't think a second thought of him.

    Why does she think he's changed?

    Has he stopped using cocaine? Is his behaviour different?


  • #290
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    SouthDublin6w wrote: »
    Ok we are making progress if the penal system has failed. Rehabilitation isn't happening in a jail, I take it you support the justice budget being put into substance abuse rehabilitation to try that.

    Hows about screens during visits to stop the flow of drugs into prisons. Cheap version of cold turkey.


  • #291
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,118 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    The millions in subsidies he receives for homelessness goes on staff wages.

    Do you expect everyone in charities to work for free? Not a very competitive way to find good staff. Charities have to justify the money the get from government. I'm pretty sure the government knows he pays his staff


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  • #292
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Hows about screens during visits to stop the flow of drugs into prisons. Cheap version of cold turkey.

    Wouldn't work, and even if it did you're treating the symptom instead of the problem. Unless they get treatment, the person will still be an addict on release and probably score on the next corner. You need to try and look at the big picture.


  • #293
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Why does she think he's changed?

    Has he stopped using cocaine? Is his behaviour different?

    He didn't leave his room/the house for a few months after he came out of hospital. But little by little he's back out doing the same things again. She's also his mother and can't see that he's scum.


  • #294
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Wouldn't work, and even if it did you're treating the symptom instead of the problem. Unless they get treatment, the person will still be an addict on release and probably score on the next corner. You need to try and look at the big picture.

    If someone is sentenced to five years and has no access to drugs, he'll be clean by the time he gets out in four years.


  • #295
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    He didn't leave his room/the house for a few months after he came out of hospital. But little by little he's back out doing the same things again. She's also his mother and can't see that he's scum.

    I'm glad my family didn't give up on me, and we didn't give up on my brother a few years later even though he did some really bad things. Both sober, relatively happy, useful members of society today.


  • #296
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    If someone is sentenced to five years and has no access to drugs, he'll be clean by the time he gets out in four years.

    That's just not true. It's not based on anything science or medicine has to say about addiction.


  • #297
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,118 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    If someone is sentenced to five years and has no access to drugs, he'll be clean by the time he gets out in four years.

    That's really interesting that you would think that. It shows a complete lack of understanding of what addiction is and how it works.

    After 5 years with no access to drugs they will have no drugs in their system but that doesn't mean they're no longer an addict or arentcounting down the days until they can get access to drugs again. It's genuinely illuminating that you would admit thinking that's a good way to tackle addiction. I wonder how many other people think like this?


  • #298
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,118 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    If someone is sentenced to five years and has no access to drugs, he'll be clean by the time he gets out in four years.

    This might actually be one of the most interesting posts I've ever seen on this topic. It really does shed light on why some people support things that have no basis in science and medicine.

    I genuinely think I will never forget this post


  • #299
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    I'm glad my family didn't give up on me, and we didn't give up on my brother a few years later even though he did some really bad things. Both sober, relatively happy, useful members of society today.

    I applaud anyone who can kick addiction & return to a full life.
    Do you not think there is a time however when someone's family & friends have to give up on them?


  • #300
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    I'm glad my family didn't give up on me, and we didn't give up on my brother a few years later even though he did some really bad things. Both sober, relatively happy, useful members of society today.

    I'll be glad when he's out of my life completely. Whether moved away or otherwise.


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  • #301
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I applaud anyone who can kick addiction & return to a full life.
    Do you not think there is a time however when someone's family & friends have to give up on them?

    Honestly, I don't know. There were times with my brother when it was tempting. Another night in A&E, another trip to court... but if we hadn't stuck by him and intervened when we needed to, he would most likely be dead by now. Whereas he's actually doing really well now.

    Maybe if as weldoninho mentioned there was a lot of violence I'd feel differently - my brother is essentially a good guy who was being torn apart by his addiction.


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