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Is work place bullying common and what are your experiences with it?

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    chrissb8 wrote: »
    A new person was hired in our place and started talking to our boss about how one of the loyal staff members was looking for a job and had gone for interviews.

    This loyal staff member is in the throws of organising a wedding and is not moving anywhere for anytime yet and ultimately ended up saying to the new woman, in passing, as you do that she wants to work with animals in the future and my boss knows this already. My boss rang said loyal staff member and she had to explain it was all lies as she wasn't looking for a new job or went to any interviews.

    No idea why the new person was making up lies, anyway she was told she could forget about continuing on in our place or even her probation and sent her packing. She was a snake from the get go and I'm glad my boss knew what was up right away. Someone like that is just going to push and bully as they can't function as a normal social person. Pathetic if it wasn't so sad. No wait it is just pure pathetic.

    Worked on a dairy farm in new Zealand twenty years ago for six months, owner was rarely there so had two managers running each side of a two thousand acre farm, I answered to a ferociously anti Catholic scot who used to drive straight into me with her quad bike on a regular basis, she also used to regularly tell me she would p1ss herself laughing if I got attacked by the bull, the day omagh was bombed and twenty nine people were killed, I heard a report on the radio in the milking shed and went to turn it up, this delightful human asked me

    " why are you listening to that, none of that effects us milking cows here"

    Would take an hour to list all the incidents and utterings

    Some people are just evil


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭Dalomanakora


    Long post -

    I've experienced it, unfortunately, along with sexual harassment in the same place. Reports to HR led to me being dragged into a meeting with no warning, with the HR manager and my area manager, and told I just wanted to get money from them when I reported my manager.


    From certain male staff, I'd be told things like "best place for you" when kneeling down to get something, if they called the place to ask about their roster and i answered, they'd tell me they were masturbating to my voice. One of them came in drunk one night (he wasn't on shift) and grabbed my backside twice while my manager laughed. After reporting these things, I had my hours cut in half, then again down to 8 hours a week (from 48-60).

    It culminated in a manager physically assaulting me. I walked out on the spot. I sent my resignation, and the same HR manager as before withheld my final wages and annual leave owed (about 3k all in) because she wanted me to talk to her about coming back to work. Probably because she knew I had enough evidence to sue, having been there a few years.


    Unfortunately I was a scared, depressed 21 year old with anxiety so rather than take it much further, I sought counselling because I couldn't cope any longer. That was an enormous Irish company.



    Nowadays, it doesn't happen. I'm a much more confident woman and I'm not a mentally unstable wreck :pac: if someone makes a snarky comment, i immediately question what they mean, and keep asking them to repeat it, until they drop the subject because they know I've called them out.

    In the company I work for now (another large Irish one), HR while obviously being there to protect the company, fully understand the need to support their staff. Any issue I've raised with my area manager has been immediately discussed, dealt with and resolved to my satisfaction. The HR staff engage with us, the CEO comes to visit semi-regularly, and rather than try to catch anyone out, he'd give us a hug and tell us how great we're doing. The level of support is enormous in comparison to any job I've had tbh and I've never heard of bullying being an issue in the company thankfully!


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,393 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    Very common in US multinationals. So many people stupidly buy into the Corporate Dream with the promises of band/title promotions and bonuses and payrises whilst unknowingly giving their soul and the best part of their lives to Corporations and managers that do not care about them or their families.

    These people are working 50+ hours a week, checking/sending emails in the evenings and weekends and getting so stressed that they (a) don't notice they are being bullied and (b) don't notice they are bullying others in order to climb that magical corporate ladder....

    The Americans love the Irish because they buy into the Corporate nonsense hook, line and sinker. Something to do with our colonial past methinks. They don't get the same obedience from mainland Europe, India, Mexico, Malaysia, China etc.

    This is absolutely bang on the mark.

    Experienced it first hand, got out and I still look back and think what the fook was I doing - never ever again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,490 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Ineedaname wrote: »
    It's quite common. Never experienced it myself thankfully but I've witnessed it. Family run businesses in particular are the worst for it.

    My GF experienced some a while back. She worked in a business where her superior was a daughter of the owner. It started small but built up over time. It involved being given unrealistic deadlines, being blamed for failures, spreading rumors among staff, holidays cancelled last minute, exclusion from social events and (ironically) a false accusation of bullying. Brought it to the powers that be only to be told to "toughen up". It got so bad that some mornings she was in tears going to work. Eventually enough was enough and she handed in her notice.

    My GF is no pushover and well able to stand up for herself but bullying is something that can really wear you down and destroy your self-esteem.


    BiB


    Too many memories, especially the last decade at a family run business.

    However, I wasn't being bullied. I stopped the notion of that dead in its tracks after week 4.

    I observed it from the owners to others and after about a year or so I started to call it out.
    It made not a jot of difference there - either the victims moved on (young apprentice type positions, foot in the door stuff although some were older and experienced) or they just wouldn't pursue it.


    Well, last year they dismissed me on a ridiculuous false allegation after I had spent a year training up an intelligent young bloke to do my job (a senior position which I was stepping down from)
    I was also interviewing at the time to leave - they are that thick and spiteful they thought they'd get away with it.

    Unlucky for them, that young guy had no intention of staying as he also saw the pathetic bullying, he had another job lined up and gave his notice in the day after I was sacked.


    Last month, they settled my unfair dismissal for a very tidy 5 figure sum and to top it all in total they spent tens of thousand on barristers, solicitors, ex-Labour court chairmen in the process.


    I would not have got half that sum if the case had been heard and the case awarded to me.


    Proof, if proof is needed - bullies are thick as shít and cowards.


    I would agree that note keeping is vital.
    And go through the proper procedures even if HR is useless (mostly they are in small places)
    And I would start interviewing almost immediately when the victim realises nothing will happen with the procedures.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    I could not comprehend being bullied, as I am the narkiest bastard of narkiest badtards, but it does happen, usually by the jumped up wanna be manager types.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,991 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    anewme wrote: »
    I could not comprehend being bullied, as I am the narkiest bastard of narkiest badtards, but it does happen, usually by the jumped up wanna be manager types.

    The types who bully up as well.

    Usually get recommended for promotion by their browbeaten manager who just wants them out of their hair or off their back.

    “It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be” - A. Dumbledore

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    There is such a thing as upwards bullying. The nastiness doesn't always come from a manager.

    Yeah, I've worked in a place where there was bullying. A woman who was so subtle about her bullying, nobody really noticed it until we were told about it. I've also got a couple of friends who worked in places where there were bullying problems. Just like in my workplace, HR got themselves tied up in knots over procedures and ended up stressing everyone out. And the bullies kept their jobs. A slap on the wrist for a bully is meaningless when they've terrorised their targets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22 Gloucester


    Experienced it in a large organisation years ago. Ironically, it peaked during the year they won a 'Best Place to Work' award.
    Horrific experiences that I'd never tolerate now. Sad to think when I was in my early twenties I reached out to HR but they turned a blind eye and like a poster above mentioned, they circled the wagons and made it out be my problem rather than address the issue with the staff members in question. Left when I was told I moving back to work under someone who I suffered abuse from prior to her maternity leave. Begged not to be put in there, but they tried to reassure me it was temporary and only because I was 'so good at what you do'.

    The thoughts of dealing with someone who spent her day talking to 'the voices' that nobody else could hear & thinking about her exploding when I didn't answer her 3 am calls or messages about mundane stuff like upcoming mailings etc really took its toll & I ended up going on sick leave from a low-paying job that myself and my parent that I was a p/t carer for desperately relied on for money. Horrible experience.:(

    I definitely think the the structure of the organisation with admins clearly lowest level on the ladder meant that we were just easy targets and any abuse that I reported, no matter how serious, was considered just whinging. Admins, I guess were disposable to them. Having someone reveal their weirdest sexual fetishes to me (in a closed situation he had called me into) in front of his female boss & senior female colleague and the women acting like it was perfectly fine and not supporting me was just the norm. That guy's female boss is now the director of the organisation so I guess that as an organisation, for all the training and focus on change and adapting to new business environments etc the place itself hasn't changed a bit.

    The day that I (on sick leave) found out that I got the job in my current place was genuinely the best day ever. Just knowing I didn't have to go back was such a relief that I swore I'd never tolerate that behaviour again. if an employer wants to turn a blind eye, I'd turn my back and walk away. Work takes up so much of our time and our thoughts it's important to feel happy there. No matter how good a place you're in, being an employee means you are replaceable. Great as my current place is, salary wise, conditions, annual leave etc. I'd still put my own mental health and well-being before the job.

    Glad I'm in a much smaller organisation which is well-run and any behaviour that's out of line is dealt with directly and in a really fair manner by management. I sometimes look at current place and think it's karma (good kind) for all the cr*p endured in previous places. Sometimes I find it amazing that I got through the whole experience and ended up in such a sweet place. it obviously still has its odd dodgy character (the type who'll try to put others down to make themselves seem better during meetings before putting their hand over their mouth like a toddler and pretending to be all innocent, like 'oooh that comment just slipped out :rolleyes:) but they're kept in line by the really direct, honesty of others. Luckily there's enough good people there to outweigh the odd bad apple. :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I am funded by the American government to work in an American government lab and British academic lab on a particular research project. In my time in the British lab I watched as a technician there verbally bullied people calling them retarded, pansies ect ect. He’s recently taken to physical assault by kicking the back of legs of young students. For context he’s a 47 year old man who failed two PhDs and was kicked off a masters program. His friend is his supervisor and protected him through 7 complaints. In the American government labs one guy made a complaint against a guy who was verbally abusive to him and he was gone within a week. The UK has a real problem with bullying in academia and protecting the bullies.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/sep/28/academics-uk-universities-accused-bullying-students-colleagues


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I'm not talking about illegalities but has anyone ever resorted to going around HR to solve a bullying problem?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    There is such a thing as upwards bullying. The nastiness doesn't always come from a manager.

    Upwards bullying is quite rare. It's usually middle managers, lifers who feel threatened by people with talent and inexperienced senior executives who just don't have the ability to do their job, who engage in it. I've witnessed bullying time and time again throughout my career.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I'm not talking about illegalities but has anyone ever resorted to going around HR to solve a bullying problem?

    Sometimes people have no choice. In my experience people in HR can be very 'weak' . Many HR managers are simply poor managers who could not survive a more functional/responsible role. They are the smallest shark in the shark tank. A good HR manager should have one basic trait - good common sense - but most don't and simply defend the organisation blindly.
    If HR is useless and you cannot find a manager you can trust, it's often best to find a solicitor with employee law experience. They can bring the case to the WRC.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    I've heard of so many teachers being bullied at work.
    Mainly because one teacher puts in a big effort to do something and they get jealous!

    I've yet to meet a teacher that wasn't a complete and utter control freak.
    I think they find it hard to adjust to not being the masters of all they survey outside of the classroom.

    Same goes for doctors.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I've yet to meet a teacher that wasn't a complete and utter control freak.
    I think they find it hard to adjust to not being the masters of all they survey outside of the classroom.

    I cant argue with that. They are also very delusional with a huge sense of entitlement. I reckon it's because many of them don't actually want to be teachers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,288 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I've yet to meet a teacher that wasn't a complete and utter control freak.
    I think they find it hard to adjust to not being the masters of all they survey outside of the classroom.

    Same goes for doctors.
    I cant argue with that. They are also very delusional with a huge sense of entitlement. I reckon it's because many of them don't actually want to be teachers.

    I've met a mix bag of teachers.
    The one's I've encountered who are bullied are generally the one's who want to be their, do extra curricarly activities with the kids, etc.
    Those who bully see it as a 9am-4pm job or they were hammered into it by their parents.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 369 ✭✭Seanf999


    Foreman said to myself and another apprentice 'you've got heads on ye like two stupid f*cking turkeys looking into a field".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Sometimes people have no choice. In my experience people in HR can be very 'weak'.

    They are not weak. HR are there to act in the best interest of the company, not the employee.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Seanf999 wrote: »
    Foreman said to myself and another apprentice 'you've got heads on ye like two stupid f*cking turkeys looking into a field".

    In fairness there is a difference between name calling and bullying. Everyone gets called a name in work. The fact that yours is "stupid ****ing turkey" is unfortunate. At least he said it to your face, I am sure you can deal with it.

    When your foreman starts trying to make a fool of you to your colleagues, or when he threatens you with your job or makes you genuinely feel that you are worthless and you are genuinely hurt by this, that is bullying.


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  • Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ive seen more people claim bullying on dubious terms than ive seen bullying in my time


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 369 ✭✭Seanf999


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    In fairness there is a difference between name calling and bullying. Everyone gets called a name in work. The fact that yours is "stupid ****ing turkey" is unfortunate. At least he said it to your face, I am sure you can deal with it.

    When your foreman starts trying to make a fool of you to your colleagues, or when he threatens you with your job or makes you genuinely feel that you are worthless and you are genuinely hurt by this, that is bullying.

    I'm lucky I've never dealt with anything too serious.
    The same guy will f and blind at us all day but he's not threatening, just insulting.
    No one even pays attention to him anyway.

    I had a qualified lad take a disliking to me, he was getting me to walk 15 minutes to and from the stores 'grab me a nut will ya', and when I came back 'oh grab another nut too'.. he had my number but you wouldn't mind that as an apprentice.
    It's when he was saying sh*te like 'give me that knife, wouldn't trust you with a tweezers', 'go and grab that, don't think too hard about it now ya stupid pr*ck' and 'don't touch that (electrical, high voltage) that'll kill ya, some wouldn't give a sh*te but don't make me walk up to the offices.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 172 ✭✭devlinio


    Necro wrote: »

    Worked for a former TD who ran a supermarket in my town before. It was commonplace for him to storm in and just single out one person on a daily basis for a tirade of abuse and berating.

    John Perry?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Seanf999 wrote: »
    I'm lucky I've never dealt with anything too serious.
    The same guy will f and blind at us all day but he's not threatening, just insulting.
    No one even pays attention to him anyway.

    I had a qualified lad take a disliking to me, he was getting me to walk 15 minutes to and from the stores 'grab me a nut will ya', and when I came back 'oh grab another nut too'.. he had my number but you wouldn't mind that as an apprentice.
    It's when he was saying sh*te like 'give me that knife, wouldn't trust you with a tweezers', 'go and grab that, don't think too hard about it now ya stupid pr*ck' and 'don't touch that (electrical, high voltage) that'll kill ya, some wouldn't give a sh*te but don't make me walk up to the offices.

    You are lucky that you are able to see the difference between someone being an arsehole and someone actually giving you a bit of tough love. As an Apprentice you have to both receive and earn the respect of people who you are working with, particularly if your work can be dangerous and require the concentration of everyone.

    Don't get poxy with them just cause they are poxy with you. Sometimes you have to eat a bit of **** when you are learning a trade. Just make sure you turn up and listen and learn and it will be fine. The day you stop learning off your colleagues is the day you need to start thinking about finding a job where you can learn more. But until your qualified your not there yet. Everyone gets a bollicking and gets sent to the store room for Tartan Glue, just lap it up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭username2013


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    You are lucky that you are able to see the difference between someone being an arsehole and someone actually giving you a bit of tough love. As an Apprentice you have to both receive and earn the respect of people who you are working with, particularly if your work can be dangerous and require the concentration of everyone.

    Don't get poxy with them just cause they are poxy with you. Sometimes you have to eat a bit of **** when you are learning a trade. Just make sure you turn up and listen and learn and it will be fine. The day you stop learning off your colleagues is the day you need to start thinking about finding a job where you can learn more. But until your qualified your not there yet. Everyone gets a bollicking and gets sent to the store room for Tartan Glue, just lap it up.

    Nope, sorry can't agree with that. In fact it's that attitude that enables bullies to get away with stuff. No one should have to take **** for the sake of learning a trade. In construction in Ireland, that attitude is rife and needs to change. And it seems to me, a lot of lads like giving it to the apprentice because it was done to them when they were learning. But if you take a step back from it, there is really no need or benefit to it. Anybody can make a mistake, and if they do they should be educated not belittled. Another thing I noticed when I was working in construction was that it was never a successful fella giving ya crap, it was always the bitter auld bastards who had done fook all with their lives.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Nope, sorry can't agree with that. In fact it's that attitude that enables bullies to get away with stuff. No one should have to take **** for the sake of learning a trade. In construction in Ireland, that attitude is rife and needs to change. And it seems to me, a lot of lads like giving it to the apprentice because it was done to them when they were learning. But if you take a step back from it, there is really no need or benefit to it. Anybody can make a mistake, and if they do they should be educated not belittled. Another thing I noticed when I was working in construction was that it was never a successful fella giving ya crap, it was always the bitter auld bastards who had done fook all with their lives.

    Great, listen I am too tired to write a reply. I am sorry about this. But if I do start arguing with you I will be late for work and also tired in the morning. If I am either I will probably get a bollicking. It happens.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭username2013


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Great, listen I am too tired to write a reply. I am sorry about this. But if I do start arguing with you I will be late for work and also tired in the morning. If I am either I will probably get a bollicking. It happens.

    haha, no worries mate, I wouldn't want to be responsible for you get a bollicking! I reread your post and perhaps I was a bit hasty, I know what you're saying. Perhaps I conflated getting a valid telling off with bullying. That been said I think sometimes in trades a subtle and more discreet word in the ear would be more effective than a bollicking in front of other workers.


  • Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nope, sorry can't agree with that. In fact it's that attitude that enables bullies to get away with stuff. No one should have to take **** for the sake of learning a trade. In construction in Ireland, that attitude is rife and needs to change. And it seems to me, a lot of lads like giving it to the apprentice because it was done to them when they were learning. But if you take a step back from it, there is really no need or benefit to it. Anybody can make a mistake, and if they do they should be educated not belittled. Another thing I noticed when I was working in construction was that it was never a successful fella giving ya crap, it was always the bitter auld bastards who had done fook all with their lives.

    its never always one thing or the other, human interactions are heavily contextual and i dont believe in setting the lowest common denominator for offence taken or inability to brush off anything but totally positive/'professional' comment as the 'correct' default.

    there is always going to be variance of mood, approach, style, humour and tolerance.

    HR are very well advised in keeping the above in mind and ascertaining whether the (correctly-set) high bar to go ahead with accusations of bullying are founded or whether a clash of styles or conflict of understanding (or etc or etc) has occurred.

    they will also balance the workplace aims being met without people getting their focus disrupted by every little thing said to them versus the cost of a successful bullying claim not properly handled.

    much more often than not the person claiming bullying ends up not getting their satisfaction. their version is that HR are useless and their bully is being protected. a fuller view of the judgement of the professionals involved may or may not shed a different light on events.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    I was bullied in school until I found out about guerrilla warfare. I don't take sh|t from anyone at work.
    Someone being bullied is not weak - they are being intimidated.
    TBH, that should read "scum who prey on the weakness of a person".
    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Even its clear as crystal what's happening, management will usually do nothing, they will often circle the wagons and if anything turn on the one complaining
    I find it depends on the manager. A good manager will help stamp out the bullying. A bad manager will circle the wagons as they're afraid they'll be called out next, as they were the one who hired the bully, and/or is the bullies mate.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,393 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I'm not talking about illegalities but has anyone ever resorted to going around HR to solve a bullying problem?

    Yep and it was pretty much pointless, was only when I went higher to get an impartial view that that person could see things from my side. By then it was too late, I'd found a new job and handed in my notice.

    Was more pissed that it was a job I actually really liked - it's when you hear that saying again that employees normally leave a bad manager not a job.


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