Notre Dame fire conspiracies

Dohnjoe · 22-04-2019 6:25pm

gozunda wrote: »

Nah. Do you mean the algorithms used by YouTube which automatically ally linked this story to 9/11 lol?

Nope that's some new video recognition thing they were testing (that apparently didn't work)

I am referring to traditional text searches in Google/Youtube. They now favor news sources whereas in the past they would go straight to the source (e.g. Infowars)

Wayne Gorsky · 22-04-2019 6:26pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Would go straight to the conspiracies, usually the likes of Infowars, etc. Youtube have been changed their algo's also

yeah, same company anyway...

gozunda · 22-04-2019 6:41pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Nope that's some new video recognition thing they were testing (that apparently didn't work)

I am referring to traditional text searches in Google/Youtube. They now favor news sources whereas in the past they would go straight to the source (e.g. Infowars)

Nope never noticed that myself when typing in for example "9/11". However if as you said you type in the words"9/11 conspiracy" that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Type in the word 'connspiracy + whatever - of course your going get links to news stories about various conspiracies - Media stories have higher levels of traffic and will always appear first imo. Plus a lot of them seem to be tripping over themselves to show how they are the "News"

Dohnjoe · 22-04-2019 6:54pm

gozunda wrote: »

Nooe never noticed that myself when typing in for example "9/11". However if as you said you type in the words"Notre Dame conspiracy" that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Type in the word 'conspiacy + whatever - of course your going get links to news stories about various conspiracies - Media stories have higher levels of traffic and will always appear first. Plus a lot of them seem to be tripping over themselves to show how they are the "News"

A few years ago putting in e.g. "911 attacks" or "Sandy Hook shooting" without the word conspiracy would still yield half a page of direct conspiracies or more. Youtube was worse.

Now it's completely different. Even putting in the word "conspiracy" diverts to news sources. Youtube has also recently admitted they have tweaked their results to stop recommending conspiracy videos.

gozunda · 22-04-2019 7:05pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

A few years ago putting in e.g. "911 attacks" or "Sandy Hook shooting" without the word conspiracy would still yield half a page of direct conspiracies or more. Youtube was worse.

Now it's completely different. Even putting in the word "conspiracy" diverts to news sources. Youtube has also recently admitted they have tweaked their results to stop recommending conspiracy videos.

Yeah because the media are now publishing articles about 'conspiracies' - take look - theres a whole slew of them on Notre Dame...

Dohnjoe · 22-04-2019 7:22pm

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah because the media are now publishing articles about 'conspiracies' - take look - theres a whole slew of them on Notre Dame...

That's because it's a new event. Looking up older events like the 911 attacks and JFK now brings us to news and informational sites. In the past we'd be taken to a much larger proportion of conspiracy results. It's the way ranking systems worked (SEO), popular conspiracy sites and articles would go up Google unfettered. Obviously there have been changes (2016 was probably the catalyst)

On Youtube the change is even more dramatic, in the past typing "911 attacks" or "Twin towers" would yield almost entirely conspiracy videos. Now the top results are informative/informational videos (not recent ones either)

gozunda · 22-04-2019 9:34pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

That's because it's a new event. Looking up older events like the 911 attacks and JFK now brings us to news and informational sites. In the past we'd be taken to a much larger proportion of conspiracy results. It's the way ranking systems worked (SEO), popular conspiracy sites and articles would go up Google unfettered. Obviously there have been changes (2016 was probably the catalyst)

On Youtube the change is even more dramatic, in the past typing "911 attacks" or "Twin towers" would yield almost entirely conspiracy videos. Now the top results are informative/informational videos (not recent ones either)

I'd disagree. There's way more MSM news 'stories' about 'conspiracy stories' now than say 10 years. Reporting how these have been outed seems to be trendy or something tbh in the media.

Dohnjoe · 23-04-2019 1:17am

gozunda wrote: »

I'd disagree.

That's cool, but looks like there have been changes

https://www.blog.google/products/search/our-latest-quality-improvements-search/

New Search Quality Rater guidelines: Developing changes to Search involves a process of experimentation. As part of that process, we have evaluators—real people who assess the quality of Google’s search results—give us feedback on our experiments. These ratings don’t determine individual page rankings, but are used to help us gather data on the quality of our results and identify areas where we need to improve. Last month, we updated our Search Quality Rater Guidelines to provide more detailed examples of low-quality webpages for raters to appropriately flag, which can include misleading information, unexpected offensive results, hoaxes and unsupported conspiracy theories. These guidelines will begin to help our algorithms in demoting such low-quality content and help us to make additional improvements over time.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/9/17550954/youtube-google-news-initiative-fake-news-conspiracy-theory-context-updates

YouTube is adding “authoritative” context to search results about conspiracy-prone topics like the Moon landing and the Oklahoma City Bombing, as well as putting $25 million toward news outlets producing videos. Today, the company announced a new step in its Google News Initiative, a program it launched in March. The update is focused on reducing misinformation on YouTube, including the conspiracy theories that have flourished after events like the Parkland shooting.

gozunda · 23-04-2019 1:27am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

That's cool, but looks like there have been changes

https://www.blog.google/products/search/our-latest-quality-improvements-search/
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/9/17550954/youtube-google-news-initiative-fake-news-conspiracy-theory-context-updates

Yeah I had read that previously....The MSM are now writing huge numbers of stories on the topic 'conspiracy' Hence the search results...

Dohnjoe · 23-04-2019 1:42am

Looks like this TV host didn't get the memo

An Israeli television personality on Monday linked the Sri Lanka terror attacks to Paris’s Notre Dame fire, claiming the iconic cathedral was deliberately set ablaze by Islamists and alleging that French investigators were “lying” about the cause.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-tv-host-jeered-for-claiming-french-hiding-islamist-arson-at-notre-dame/

gozunda · 23-04-2019 5:52am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Looks like this TV host didn't get the memo

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-tv-host-jeered-for-claiming-french-hiding-islamist-arson-at-notre-dame/

Which memo was that?

Pinch Flat · 23-04-2019 6:03am

Think it’s been widely reported that an electrical fault was the most likely cause. But hey never know. Could be those illuminati lads up to their old tricks as well.

gozunda · 23-04-2019 6:56am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Think it’s been widely reported that an electrical fault was the most likely cause. But hey never know. Could be those illuminati lads up to their old tricks as well.

Yeah saw that - The official sources have been reported as saying that the fire started at the base of the spire and was caused most likely by a 'electrical short-circuit', with the 'temporary elevators' in use by the restorers being suspected as being responsible and the rapid nature of the fire spread was as a result of a 'computer glitch' which had misreported where the fire was

This despite it also being claimed that the investigation would take months, there is no electrical supply in the roofspace, the elevators were not in in use at the time of the fire and the power connections used by the contractors had all been switched off and the key to same handed back to cathedral staff.

Yesh all that makes sense ....

http://time.com/5574252/notre-dame-cathedral-stable/

Pinch Flat · 23-04-2019 8:42am

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah saw that - The official sources have been reported as saying that the fire started at the base of the spire and was caused most likely by a 'electrical short-circuit', with the 'temporary elevators' in use by the restorers being suspected as being responsible and the rapid nature of the fire spread was as a result of a 'computer glitch' which had misreported where the fire was

This despite it also being claimed that the investigation would take months, there is no electrical supply in the roofspace, the elevators were not in in use at the time of the fire and the power connections used by the contractors had all been switched off and the key to same handed back to cathedral staff.

Yesh all that makes sense ....

http://time.com/5574252/notre-dame-cathedral-stable/

Ah ok. Must be illuminati so.

Dohnjoe · 23-04-2019 9:13am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah ok. Must be illuminati so.

It could be "anything", we have to await the results of the pre-determined investigation apparently

gozunda · 23-04-2019 10:29am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah ok. Must be illuminati so.

Sure wasnt I exactly agreeing with you in that sentiment :rolleyes:

And of course wot you said is exactly backed up by what the newspapers are saying ...

It all makes perfect sense and sure we all know that

Did you happen to miss the sarcasm lol ...

Wayne Gorsky · 23-04-2019 10:38am

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah saw that - The official sources have been reported as saying that the fire started at the base of the spire and was caused most likely by a 'electrical short-circuit', with the 'temporary elevators' in use by the restorers being suspected as being responsible and the rapid nature of the fire spread was as a result of a 'computer glitch' which had misreported where the fire was

This despite it also being claimed that the investigation would take months, there is no electrical supply in the roofspace, the elevators were not in in use at the time of the fire and the power connections used by the contractors had all been switched off and the key to same handed back to cathedral staff.

Yesh all that makes sense ....

http://time.com/5574252/notre-dame-cathedral-stable/

and those elevators were nowhere near the spire anyway, apparently…something doesn’t add up and someone must be talking bs there…

Dohnjoe · 23-04-2019 11:00am

Wayne Gorsky wrote: »

and those elevators were nowhere near the spire anyway, apparently…something doesn’t add up and someone must be talking bs there…

Would you almost rule out electrical at this stage?

Wayne Gorsky · 23-04-2019 11:13am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Would you almost rule out electrical at this stage?

I could not possibly rule out anything, not my job anyway and I’m not there to see with my own eyes; I’m just getting conflicting info and am wondering how it all would go together, for example how a fire at the base of the spire in connection with the elevator can happen if the elevator is meters away and power switched off etc., all based on the different clips and articles posted around here in the past few days…

RayCun · 25-04-2019 1:30pm

Wayne Gorsky wrote: »

I could not possibly rule out anything, not my job anyway and I’m not there to see with my own eyes; I’m just getting conflicting info and am wondering how it all would go together, for example how a fire at the base of the spire in connection with the elevator can happen if the elevator is meters away and power switched off etc., all based on the different clips and articles posted around here in the past few days…

So when the people whose job it is issue their report - after seeing the situation with their own eyes, and basing their decisions on information from the site rather than internet speculation - will you accept it?

Or will you say, "Sure, the investigators say this, but this youtube video says that, so I guess it's a mystery"

If the report differs from some youtube speculation, will you read the actual report, or rely on youtube summaries?

gozunda · 26-04-2019 12:26am

RayCun wrote: »

So when the people whose job it is issue their report - after seeing the situation with their own eyes, and basing their decisions on information from the site rather than internet speculation - will you accept it?

Or will you say, "Sure, the investigators say this, but this youtube video says that, so I guess it's a mystery"

If the report differs from some youtube speculation, will you read the actual report, or rely on youtube summaries?

Ray - what's your take on the fire? Have you pre-decided what's happened or are you waiting for the report on the investigation? Will you accept that? Do you think Youtube 'summaries' have some special significance perhaps? Could you explain a bit more about that ....

RayCun · 26-04-2019 9:02am

gozunda wrote: »

Ray - what's your take on the fire? Have you pre-decided what's happened or are you waiting for the report on the investigation? Will you accept that? Do you think Youtube 'summaries' have some special significance perhaps? Could you explain a bit more about that ....

I expect the report to be conclusive.

From what I've heard so far, the most likely explanation is that the fire was accidental - restoring buildings that old is inherently risky.

Most Youtube videos are produced by cranks and grifters, to be consumed by idiots. A useful timesaving heuristic is to assume that anyone pointing you to a video on Youtube as support for their position is a moron.

(as a medium it is designed for rhetoric rather than logic, and the presentation of misleading edits and fakery instead of primary sources)

RayCun · 26-04-2019 9:26am

There are four kinds of people in this world: cretins, fools, morons, and lunatics…Cretins don’t even talk; they sort of slobber and stumble…Fools are in great demand, especially on social occasions. They embarrass everyone but provide material for conversation…Fools don’t claim that cats bark, but they talk about cats when everyone else is talking about dogs. They offend all the rules of conversation, and when they really offend, they’re magnificent…Morons never do the wrong thing. They get their reasoning wrong. Like the fellow who says that all dogs are pets and all dogs bark, and cats are pets, too, therefore cats bark…Morons will occasionally say something that’s right, but they say it for the wrong reason…A lunatic is easily recognized. He is a moron who doesn’t know the ropes. The moron proves his thesis; he has logic, however twisted it may be. The lunatic on the other hand, doesn’t concern himself at all with logic; he works by short circuits. For him, everything proves everything else. The lunatic is all idée fixe, and whatever he comes across confirms his lunacy. You can tell him by the liberties he takes with common sense, by his flashes of inspiration, and by the fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars…There are lunatics who don’t bring up the Templars, but those who do are the most insidious. At first they seem normal, then all of a sudden…

..

The Nal · 26-04-2019 9:44am

RayCun wrote: »

From what I've heard so far, the most likely explanation is that the fire was accidental - restoring buildings that old is inherently risky.

But.... but..... Muslims

gozunda · 26-04-2019 11:59am

RayCun wrote: »

I expect the report to be conclusive. From what I've heard so far, the most likely explanation is that the fire was accidental - restoring buildings that old is inherently risky.
Most Youtube videos are produced by cranks and grifters, to be consumed by idiots. A useful timesaving heuristic is to assume that anyone pointing you to a video on Youtube as support for their position is a moron.(as a medium it is designed for rhetoric rather than logic, and the presentation of misleading edits and fakery instead of primary sources)

Good for you.

Well a quick check of the thread shows very very few posting YouTube videos (or as you call them "morons') - so that should make you happy. The only dodgy videos making claims seemed to have been sourced from Twitter afaik.

So do you reckon YouTube content such as news reports with film footage from the BBC etc or detail of the building work by the scaffolding company are in your words

are produced by cranks and grifters, to be consumed by idiots. A useful timesaving heuristic is to assume that anyone pointing you to a video on Youtube as support for their position is a moron. (as a medium it is designed for rhetoric rather than logic, and the presentation of misleading edits and fakery instead of primary sources)

?

That would be an Interesting point of view btw. Do you think that YouTube is all a big conspiracy then?

RayCun · 26-04-2019 12:10pm

gozunda wrote: »

So do you reckon YouTube content such as news reports with film footage from the BBC etc or detail of the building work by the scaffolding company are in your words

You could try reading what I said again if you didn't understand it the first time.

gozunda wrote: »

That would be an Interesting point of view btw. Do you think that YouTube is all a big conspiracy then?

No, and I didn't suggest anything of the sort.

gozunda · 26-04-2019 2:06pm

RayCun wrote: »

You could try reading what I said again if you didn't understand it the first time. No, and I didn't suggest anything of the sort.

Yup. I did thanks - though no problem I'd you dont wish to answer the question asked.

Its a valid point though- you went on at length about YouTube videos (and those using same - being "morons") and there's bugger all YouTube stuff in this thread - just thought I'd point that out. No worries though.

W1ll1s · 29-04-2019 8:39pm

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/04/the_notre_dame_fire_conclusions_enforced_embeforeem_the_evidence_was_examined.html

stefanovich · 29-04-2019 8:40pm

Two fires started at the same time

Dohnjoe · 29-04-2019 8:51pm

W1ll1s wrote: »

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/04/the_notre_dame_fire_conclusions_enforced_embeforeem_the_evidence_was_examined.html

Looks like a right-wing blog trying to pin the blame on Muslims with nothing but hope

stefanovich · 29-04-2019 8:56pm

A women accused of trying to blow up Notre Dame was convicted and imprisoned for another crime two days before the fire.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/france-jails-jihadist-woman-accused-over-foiled-terror-attack/ar-BBVT5nJ

Wayne Gorsky · 29-04-2019 11:28pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Looks like a right-wing blog trying to pin the blame on Muslims with nothing but hope

Huh? Can you please elaborate...?

Dohnjoe · 29-04-2019 11:44pm

Wayne Gorsky wrote: »

Huh? Can you please elaborate...?

No need, unless you think it isn't a blog post on some right-wing site

gozunda · 29-04-2019 11:55pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No need, unless you think it isn't a blog post on some right-wing site

Just took a brief look and while the site contains amongst other content a section for blogs - the piece was written by:

John Dietrich is a freelance writer and the author of The Morgenthau Plan: Soviet Influence on American Postwar Policy (Algora Publishing). He has a master of arts degree in International Relations from St. Mary's University. He is retired from the Defense Intelligence Agency and the Department of Homeland Security.

Are you saying that if a site appears either 'left wing' or 'right wing' in terms of political thought - it should be automatically dismissed? Why is that?

Edit: Under the "About Section" it details that American Thinker is also a discussion forum.

AmericanThinker.com is a community for the civil and thoughtful discussion of issues. AT is not a chatroom, it is a discussion forum. Comments are moderated. AT reserves the right to delete any post for any reason, at any time. When commenters violate comment rules their posting privileges are revoked. AT is a privately owned publication. Publishing a comment on American Thinker is a privilege, not a right.

Dohnjoe · 29-04-2019 11:57pm

gozunda wrote: »

Are you saying that if a site appears either 'left wing' or 'right wing' in terms of political thought - it should be automatically dismissed?

Nope

RayCun · 30-04-2019 9:13am

John Dietrich is a freelance writer and the author of The Morgenthau Plan: Soviet Influence on American Postwar Policy (Algora Publishing). He has a master of arts degree in International Relations from St. Mary's University. He is retired from the Defense Intelligence Agency and the Department of Homeland Security.

A freelance writer who self-published his own book, and whose other posts on that site show a much greater familiarity with the usual right-wing talking points than with fire investigation.

Is there any reason to think he knows any more about the fire than any randomer on boards? If not, why link to him?

Emme · 30-04-2019 12:42pm

My pet goat did it.

Charles Ingles · 30-04-2019 7:59pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Two fires started at the same time

I said weeks ago it was a conspiracy and was laughed at.
Since then we have seen separate attacks on Christian churches around the world.

Timberrrrrrrr · 30-04-2019 8:01pm

Charles Ingles wrote: »

I said weeks ago it was a conspiracy and was laughed at.
Since then we have seen separate attacks on Christian churches around the world.

You're still being laughed at, and for good reason too.

Charles Ingles · 30-04-2019 8:04pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You're still being laughed at, and for good reason too.

Your not laughing now

Dohnjoe · 30-04-2019 8:05pm

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Your not laughing now

It's a conspiracy? share the details..

Timberrrrrrrr · 30-04-2019 8:09pm

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Your not laughing now

Ha ha ha ha haaaa :pac:

You're wrong again!

Charles Ingles · 30-04-2019 10:02pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ha ha ha ha haaaa :pac:

You're wrong again!

https://summit.news/2019/04/30/another-catholic-church-desecrated-by-vandals/
Another Catholic church attacked and vandalised in Scotland, police refused to classify it as a hate crime Christians are fair game it seems

batgoat · 30-04-2019 10:26pm

Charles Ingles wrote: »

https://summit.news/2019/04/30/another-catholic-church-desecrated-by-vandals/
Another Catholic church attacked and vandalised in Scotland, police refused to classify it as a hate crime Christians are fair game it seems

There is no evidence of Arson) arson in Notre Dame so we'll be laughing at you indefinitely...

gozunda · 30-04-2019 10:31pm

batgoat wrote: »

There is no evidence of Arson) arson in Notre Dame so we'll be laughing at you indefinitely...

Has the investigation been completed? Genuine question.

Charles Ingles · 30-04-2019 10:31pm

batgoat wrote: »

There is no evidence of Arson) arson in Notre Dame so we'll be laughing at you indefinitely...

Notre dame
Two random self combusting fires, nothing to see here move on.

stefanovich · 30-04-2019 10:32pm

gozunda wrote: »

Has the investigation been completed? Genuine question.

Investigation was completed before the fire was out. Nothing to see here move along please.

Charles Ingles · 30-04-2019 10:37pm

When they finally admit it was arson they were blame Russia or a white supremacist

batgoat · 30-04-2019 10:43pm

Charles Ingles wrote: »

When they finally admit it was arson they were blame Russia or a white supremacist

So really, it's more about pushing a rather nasty agenda...

Dohnjoe · 30-04-2019 11:14pm

Charles Ingles wrote: »

When they finally admit it was arson they were blame Russia or a white supremacist

Why wouldn't the arsonist be blamed?