"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

Loafing Oaf · 30-04-2019 12:24PM

Lor11 wrote: »

This episode was a great way to conclude the evil from the North, why anyone would want the NK to live for another episode is beyond me. As we saw when Jon was running through the court yard all the major characters were in trouble and could not sustain the attack much longer. up until the last few seconds of the battle there was no hope. The NK had Bran in he's grasp, Jon was facing up to a dead dragon (not sure what that was about) Dany and Jorah were in no man's land surrounded. I sure didn't want it to end that way.

But surely you knew it couldn't possibly end that way? Most of our favourite characters wiped out with three episodes to go? So there had to be a 'ring goes into the fire' moment which presumably could only happen by killing the Night King. So no real suspense...

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 12:27PM

Lor11 wrote: »

The major disappointment for me was again Jon. He is one of my favourite characters but my god, he turns into a moron when it comes to battles and again it's the women of GOT who save him when he's seconds from death. I'm not sure what he's role will be now that the NK is defeated which was he's sole purpose, I sense a lot more brooding ... All in all it was a great episode IMO

Jon is a disaster! he has made several poor choices in battles that should have left him dead and yet he survives, to brood some more. He makes these mistakes and never really learns from them it's frustrating that we're in season 8 and he's still doing his dopey honour bit. I fail to see why people follow him he clearly doesn't want to be a leader and he makes bad choices as one, I don't know if it's the character or the actor but he's hardly an inspiring leader or the hero that people seem to want him to be

30-04-2019 12:28PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The show isn't over we may still get the answer's

Hopefully.

Penn · 30-04-2019 12:29PM

Lor11 wrote: »

First time posting, please be nice
I think a lot of people who have posted are forgetting what this show is primarily about The Iron Throne, it's called Game of Thrones not The Long Night. IMO

The show is called Game of Thrones, but the book series is called A Song of Ice and Fire. Game of Thrones was the title of the first book in the series so they stuck with it for the show (with some episode titles being named after some of the other books), but because the book series was called A Song of Ice and Fire, many always believed the central core to the show was the White Walkers (Jon/Night King representing Ice) and Dragons (Dany representing Fire). Could also refer to Lyanna (Ice, due to being from the North and a Stark) and Rhaegar (Fire, being a Targaryan), and therefore Jon being the result of their relationship and being the true heir to the throne.

The show isn't really primarily about the throne though, as Jon said himself, if they don't defeat the Night King and his army, it won't matter who sits on the Throne. I think the show was always about the main battle against the dead. The next few episodes is more about who wins at the end between who is left.

Twenty Grand · 30-04-2019 12:30PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its real nit-picking The original writer has spent how long writing the books ? How many years to go over each piece of dialogue before deciding if its right or wrong ?

He wil probably never even finish them , ,the people in charge of the tv show do not have this liberty ,

Why does anyone expect a tv show to be as well written as a series of books where it takes a decade for each book to be written ,

Remember that everyone expected the books to be done by now. Winds of winter was slated for release years ago.

I doubt it'll ever end in fairness

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 12:31PM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Jon is a disaster! he has made several poor choices in battles that should have left him dead and yet he survives, to brood some more. He makes these mistakes and never really learns from them it's frustrating that we're in season 8 and he's still doing his dopey honour bit. I fail to see why people follow him he clearly doesn't want to be a leader and he makes bad choices as one, I don't know if it's the character or the actor but he's hardly an inspiring leader or the hero that people seem to want him to be

That's the thing though , he doesn't want to be the leader he never really did,
Even when he got himself killed it actually made more people follow him ,

How Soon Is Now · 30-04-2019 12:32PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its real nit-picking The original writer has spent how long writing the books ? How many years to go over each piece of dialogue before deciding if its right or wrong ?

He wil probably never even finish them , ,the people in charge of the tv show do not have this liberty ,

Why does anyone expect a tv show to be as well written as a series of books where it takes a decade for each book to be written ,

The foundations where layed for them to pull it off. It always amazes me how fans can come up with incredibly detailed and spectacular theory's that would actually make sense yet these top level writers go for the so called easy route which mostly doesn't pay off!

I can almost bet the writers are looking at this story since its been fully theres to write and thinking how can we make this make us look good with the general everyday fan when its all said and done.

Giving the big kill to Arya Stark is the perfect example.

30-04-2019 12:33PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Remember that everyone expected the books to be done by now. Winds of winter was slated for release years ago.

I doubt it'll ever end in fairness

Probably much harder for him to finish them now seeing the hames the screen writers have made of his story..

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 12:33PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That's the thing though , he doesn't want to be the leader he never really did,
Even when he got himself killed it actually made more people follow him ,

Full disclosure, Jon is my least fave character on the show. If we didn't have a conflict plot between him and Dany to wrap up I'd have been happy for him to die last ep.

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 12:35PM

I'm starting to believe the theory that the KN was a Targaryen
We had the signs he leaves in bodys and at the Carstark boy that looks like Targaryen house banner ,
We had him ride a Dragon
We had him not being burnt by Dragon fire,
He has Blue eyes

I'm putting my money on Jon Snow becoming the new Knight King at some stage because of Bran , seen as Jon himself is a Targaryen

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 12:35PM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

The foundations where layed for them to pull it off. It always amazes me how fans can come up with incredibly detailed and spectacular theory's that would actually make sense yet these top level writers go for the so called easy route which mostly doesn't pay off!

I can almost bet the writers are looking at this story since its been fully theres to write and thinking how can we make this make us look good with the general everyday fan when its all said and done.

Giving the big kill to Arya Stark is the perfect example.

Who would you have gave it to ?

Mokuba · 30-04-2019 12:35PM

leggo wrote: »

Since you didn’t answer my question and assumed S5 was post-book (they’ve done scenes that aren’t in the source since S1, every adaptation does)...I’m gonna go with no you haven’t. So I’m guessing you’re likely not aware that the Sansa storyline in the book is an absolute shambles now and that re-integrating her into the main plot actually made a lot more sense than what GRRM had set up?

I did read them. You think having Sansa be raped and tortured for a whole season after her development as a strong character in Season 4 was good? It was awful and it's not a criticism unique to me. There were other ways to integrate Sansa if they chose.

The POV in the book is Reek and him trying to do something honourable, not for glory, because realistically who cares about Jeyne Poole, but because it is right. That's what makes it so great, Reek transforms back into Theon to help a girl of 0 importance. It won't save him from judgement or torture like the Sansa rescue does, but it is the right thing to do so he does it.

The Dorne storyline and last seasons Winterfell storyline are complete Dan and Dave creations and are the two worst in show history.

A good 50 percent of Season 5 is their own writing and it sucks. Season 7 just as badly. And now the most recent episode just proving their ineptitude again, without George to hand hold them through the plot.

30-04-2019 12:37PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm starting to believe the theory that the KN was a Targaryen
We had the signs he leaves in bodys and at the Carstark boy that looks like Targaryen house banner ,
We had him ride a Dragon
We had him not being burnt by Dragon fire,
He has Blue eyes

I'm putting my money on Jon Snow becoming the new Knight King at some stage because of Bran , seen as Jon himself is a Targaryen

The Targaryens came to Westeros 300 years ago. The NK was created 8,000 years ago. It's really unlikely.

30-04-2019 12:38PM

supersaint3 wrote: »

Anyone still saying the poor quality was down to tv settings should be given a ban at this stage.

I watched on my super tv on sky q, but in standard def and it was all down to the mix that was released, the quality was simply shocking, a very bad slip up in this day and age. As has been said before, they should be catering do the average person with the average tv.

It's a combination of factors.

I would say it's at least partly down to TV settings. Most people have incorrectly configured TVs. Factory settings are designed to look impressive in a bright showrooms. At the expense of accuracy.

It's partly down to some people having displays that inherently cannot represent shadow detail well, even when properly calibrated.

It appears to be exacerbated by some providers delivering the episode at low quality with a lot of banding and macroblocking.

It's also people just missing the point. It was a battle at night. Candle-lit crypts. It's supposed to be dark. It was deliberate that the first guys ride out into darkness and you can't see whats happening (save the flames going out). The whole point was to create tension and evoke the uncertainty of a night battle...you know the walkers are out there, you can hear them, but you don't know how many or how close.

Take your pick. But anyone saying 'muh tv is fine' who hasn't at least taken a few minutes to check ... I have very little time for. I provided suggestions and resources earlier and just got smart replies.

Dravokivich · 30-04-2019 12:40PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's a combination of factors.

I would say it's at least partly down to TV settings. Most people have incorrectly configured TVs. Factory settings are designed to look impressive in a bright showrooms. At the expense of accuracy.

It's partly down to some people having displays that inherently cannot represent shadow detail well, even when properly calibrated.

It appears to be exacerbated by some providers delivering the episode at low quality with a lot of banding and macroblocking.

It's also people just missing the point. It was a battle at night. It's supposed to be dark. It was deliberate that the first guys ride out into darkness and you can't see whats happening (save the flames going out). The whole point was to create tension and evoke the uncertainty of a night battle...you know the walkers are out there, you can hear them, but you don't know how many or how close.

Take your pick. But anyone saying 'muh tv is fine' who hasn't at least taken a few minutes to check ... I have very little time for. I provided suggestions and resources earlier and just got smart replies.

No one is complaining about the bloody swords going out.

Mokuba · 30-04-2019 12:40PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Who would you have gave it to ?

If not Jon, as I said already, it should have been Jaime Lannister as a clever payoff for the Kingslayer storyline and the shame that followed him.

He kills the Night King and forever that is a source of pride. The Kingslayer they would say, except with admiration. When Joffrey taunts him about his pages in the Kingsguard books, it's hinted that he will do something eventually to fill those pages. This was the only other reasonable outcome if it wasn't to be Jon Snow, who they had set up as Azor Ahai.

How Soon Is Now · 30-04-2019 12:40PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Who would you have gave it to ?

Its impossible for me to give you a simple answer to that right away id have to think the whole thing threw to be honest.

If and thats a big if i was going to give it to Arya i would not of done it the way they did anyway thats for sure. I actually feel like i cant re watch the final scene with The Night King because of how it ends and how cheesy it is.

That alone is really bothering me because i love this show and loved The Night King/White Walkers story and wanted so much more from it compared to what we where given over the course of the last 8 seasons.

I seriously feel we got a bad ending to one of the most exciting parts of the show because the writers wanted to be remembered for being ''Different''

Cina · 30-04-2019 12:41PM

Mokuba wrote: »

He kills the Night King and forever that is a source of pride. When Jeffrey taunts him about his pages in the Kingsguard books, it's hinted that he will do something eventually to fill those pages. This was the only other reasonable outcome if it wasn't to be Jon Snow, who they had set up as Azor Ahai.

:pac:

Mokuba · 30-04-2019 12:43PM

Cina wrote: »

:pac:

Auto correct on phone but if you want to claim that it invalidates anything I have said then work away.

Cina · 30-04-2019 12:43PM

Mokuba wrote: »

Auto correct on phone but if you want to claim that it invalidates anything I have said then work away.

Lighten up man, you're as dark as the lighting in that episode.

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 12:44PM

Mokuba wrote: »

If not Jon, as I said already, it should have been Jaime Lannister as a clever payoff for the Kingslayer storyline and the shame that followed him.

He kills the Night King and forever that is a source of pride. When Jeffrey taunts him about his pages in the Kingsguard books, it's hinted that he will do something eventually to fill those pages. This was the only other reasonable outcome if it wasn't to be Jon Snow, who they had set up as Azor Ahai.

Jaime is still alive and still has an opportunity to earn that redemption there's still a Queen that needs slaying and if that were to happen it would be way more satisfying.

Essien · 30-04-2019 12:45PM

Cina wrote: »

Lighten up man, you're as dark as the lighting in that episode.

Adjust your display settings and stop moaning ffs

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 12:46PM

Mokuba wrote: »

If not Jon, as I said already, it should have been Jaime Lannister as a clever payoff for the Kingslayer storyline and the shame that followed him.

He kills the Night King and forever that is a source of pride. When Jeffrey taunts him about his pages in the Kingsguard books, it's hinted that he will do something eventually to fill those pages. This was the only other reasonable outcome if it wasn't to be Jon Snow, who they had set up as Azor Ahai.

Jon is to obvious and a cope out ,

Jamie could have been good,

I think seen as the battle was at Winter fell it was perfect for it to be a Stark , even more so as the Knight King mission was to kill Bran Stark ,

I think Arya was the perfect option , even when she was a kid she crept around and knew all of winter fell like the back of her hand, She never wanted to be a maiden ,

Could it have been done better ye of course but I think its perfect that it was her,

How Soon Is Now · 30-04-2019 12:46PM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Jaime is still alive and still has an opportunity to earn that redemption there's still a Queen that needs slaying and if that were to happen it would be way more satisfying.

It seems fairly obvious at this stage that Cersi has to go down this way so it makes more sense which scares me that they will again screw it somehow :pac:

Loafing Oaf · 30-04-2019 12:49PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

She never wanted to be a maiden

Well Gendry sorted that out for her:P

Lor11 · 30-04-2019 12:50PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But surely you knew it couldn't possibly end that way? Most of our favourite characters wiped out with three episodes to go? So there had to be a 'ring goes into the fire' moment which presumably could only happen by killing the Night King. So no real suspense...

I hoped it wouldn't end that way, I didn't know. It's GOT after all. I tend to get really caught up when watching something like battles and don't really try to predict what might happen in the moment. I didn't give Ayra another thought until she appeared mid air behind the nk. Naive of me maybe but it's the best way to watch a show like GOT I think, watch first, think (alot) later

How Soon Is Now · 30-04-2019 12:51PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Jon is to obvious and a cope out ,

Jamie could have been good,

I think seen as the battle was at Winter fell it was perfect for it to be a Stark , even more so as the Knight King mission was to kill Bran Stark ,

I think Arya was the perfect option , even when she was a kid she crept around and knew all of winter fell like the back of her hand, She never wanted to be a maiden ,

Could it have been done better ye of course but I think its perfect that it was her,

If thats the case give it to Bran somehow. His character and position in the story is more important then Aryas you would almost believe a possible twist ending involving The 3 eyed raven and The Night King was very possible seeing as they both know more about each other then anyone else.

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 12:52PM

Mokuba wrote: »

True but they never mentioned Valonquar in the show, even when they did the bit with Maggie the Frog. They cut her off before she gave the last prophecy. Likely on purpose.

They have constantly mentioned Aryas list which may have been more fitting, for show purposes at least.

I didn't mention the prophecy tbh cos this is the non book readers thread, but I think a Lannister killing Cersei is still a possibility based only on the show set up too. Cersei has a hit out on her two brothers, Tyrion has already killed his father, there's form there. Jaime has killed a king he swore to protect previously because it was the right thing to do, he's on a redemption arc.

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 12:55PM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

If thats the case give it to Bran somehow. His character and position in the story is more important then Aryas you would almost believe a possible twist ending involving The 3 eyed raven and The Night King was very possible seeing as they both know more about each other then anyone else.

How would Bran have killed the NK though? he can't even walk, he doesn't do magic, his only route would be to Warg into something that could kill him? Would that have been better than the trained assassin defending her family and their home?

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 12:55PM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

If thats the case give it to Bran somehow. His character and position in the story is more important then Aryas you would almost believe a possible twist ending involving The 3 eyed raven and The Night King was very possible seeing as they both know more about each other then anyone else.

Brans been helpless all along be a real stretch for him to do it himself, The old 3 eyes raven was the same, he was protected by the children of the forest and pretty useless in combat terms,
,

I don't think there job is and should ever bee to kill the knight king but just help set the pieces in place to do so, In this case he was the bate

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

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