Person looking to marry in the UK while still being married in Ireland

sexmag · 30-04-2019 09:30AM #1

Hi,

I'm just looking to see if this is possible or is this fraud I should report.

A person I knew was married in Ireland for a couple of years, he subsequently left Ireland and his wife and started a new relationship in the UK. They have since become engaged and are looking to get married. I know for a fact that he is not divorced, considering it's been less than 2 years since he left but his wife confirmed he didnt not issue proceedings to divorce.

Will he be able to marry in the UK? If not how do they find out he is still married or does he need to be reported for trying to have a marriage while still married?

Thanks

Mr. Incognito · 30-04-2019 09:57AM

What is it to you?

Tomw86 · 30-04-2019 10:07AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

What is it to you?

Well some people will report a crime if they see one being committed.

OP, I am almost certain this is illegal but you would be best to ring citizens advice or one of those free legal advice numbers if you are concerned and want to report it.

Mr. Incognito · 30-04-2019 10:11AM

I think peoples relationships and their family life are their own affair.

Bigamy is a crime. Its actually a criminal offence.

His wife could report it.

An unrelated third party could I think but its a strange one.

I think he would actually have to be remarried before an offence is committed. Engaged is not the same thing.

Phileas Frog · 30-04-2019 10:12AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I think peoples relationships and their family life are their own affair.

Bigamy is a crime. Its actually a criminal offence.

His wife could report it.

An unrelated third party could I think but its a strange one.

I think he would actually have to be remarried before an offence is committed. Engaged is not the same thing.

What's strange about it?

Mr. Incognito · 30-04-2019 10:17AM

Phileas Frog wrote: »

What's strange about it?

Whats strange about a third party making a complaint to the police about some random persons family life status?

Seriously>?

Tomw86 · 30-04-2019 10:17AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I think peoples relationships and their family life are their own affair.

Bigamy is a crime. Its actually a criminal offence.

His wife could report it.

An unrelated third party could I think but its a strange one.

I think he would actually have to be remarried before an offence is committed. Engaged is not the same thing.

Agreed. He could have been honest with his fiancée in the UK and told her he'd have to wait until he was divorced before they can be officially married.

If he marries her, it's a crime.

splinter65 · 30-04-2019 10:21AM

sexmag wrote: »

Hi,

I'm just looking to see if this is possible or is this fraud I should report.

A person I knew was married in Ireland for a couple of years, he subsequently left Ireland and his wife and started a new relationship in the UK. They have since become engaged and are looking to get married. I know for a fact that he is not divorced, considering it's been less than 2 years since he left but his wife confirmed he didnt not issue proceedings to divorce.

Will he be able to marry in the UK? If not how do they find out he is still married or does he need to be reported for trying to have a marriage while still married?

Thanks

If he’s not from the uk and he wants to get married there then the uk will require evidence from other countries he’s lived in to prove that he’s not already married.

....... · 30-04-2019 10:22AM

What I find bizarre is how much the OP knows about some guy in Englands life, to the point that he wants to police yer mans life!!

He might be waiting until he is divorced, he might have done a quickie divorce in the UK if thats where he lives, he might be planning a religious only ceremony with the new one, he might not even be in a new relationship!!

How on earth does the OP know so much about this guys life?

splinter65 · 30-04-2019 11:01AM

....... wrote: »

What I find bizarre is how much the OP knows about some guy in Englands life, to the point that he wants to police yer mans life!!

He might be waiting until he is divorced, he might have done a quickie divorce in the UK if thats where he lives, he might be planning a religious only ceremony with the new one, he might not even be in a new relationship!!

How on earth does the OP know so much about this guys life?

If he was married in Ireland then he’ll have to get his divorce from Ireland.
If he wants a catholic wedding then he still has to produce evidence to the church that he’s not already married. Letters of freedom from all the parishes he’s lived in as an adult.

coylemj · 30-04-2019 11:11AM

splinter65 wrote: »

If he’s not from the uk and he wants to get married there then the uk will require evidence from other countries he’s lived in to prove that he’s not already married.

I seriously doubt that that's the case. If you had lived in the US (where marriage is regulated by the individual states), would you need a letter from all 50 states to say you were never married? Because you could have lived in NY state and gone to Nevada for a weekend to get married, without ever having been domiciled in that state.

ShaunC · 30-04-2019 11:34AM

I'd say let him marry away, It's shocking to see a man make the same mistake twice:eek:

....... · 30-04-2019 11:49AM

splinter65 wrote: »

If he was married in Ireland then he’ll have to get his divorce from Ireland.
If he wants a catholic wedding then he still has to produce evidence to the church that he’s not already married. Letters of freedom from all the parishes he’s lived in as an adult.

Nope - you can divorce in whatever state you are domiciled.

I cant speak for Catholic requirements (although that sounds a bit overkill - really?) but Catholicism is not the only religion.

Its easy to commit bigamy.

Generally the only people who complain about it are those affected by it - so the new wife and resultant children might be unhappy to find out about it but not usually random strangers.

GerardKeating · 30-04-2019 11:51AM

splinter65 wrote: »

If he was married in Ireland then he’ll have to get his divorce from Ireland.

No, you get divorce where you live...

gmisk · 30-04-2019 11:59AM

sexmag wrote: »

Hi,

I'm just looking to see if this is possible or is this fraud I should report.

A person I knew was married in Ireland for a couple of years, he subsequently left Ireland and his wife and started a new relationship in the UK. They have since become engaged and are looking to get married. I know for a fact that he is not divorced, considering it's been less than 2 years since he left but his wife confirmed he didnt not issue proceedings to divorce.

Will he be able to marry in the UK? If not how do they find out he is still married or does he need to be reported for trying to have a marriage while still married?

Thanks

I would think he would have to prove he was not married previously in ireland.

For example I am getting married in ROI and was born in Northern Ireland I had to get a document proving I wasnt married during my time living in Northern Ireland over the age of 16.

Bannasidhe · 30-04-2019 12:03PM

....... wrote: »

Nope - you can divorce in whatever state you are domiciled.

I cant speak for Catholic requirements (although that sounds a bit overkill - really?) but Catholicism is not the only religion.

Its easy to commit bigamy.

Generally the only people who complain about it are those affected by it - so the new wife and resultant children might be unhappy to find out about it but not usually random strangers.

However, as his second marriage would be illegal this would leave his new 'wife' as a legal stranger - should he die she would not inherit anything as his first wife is still his legal next of kin.

I knew someone this happened to. Police turn up to tell her 'husband' was killed in a car crash - during probate it turns out he was already married but in a different jurisdiction. All his assets went to his first (and legal) wife.

The Registrar asks each member of the couple to declare that they know of no lawful reason why they should not be married to each other in addition to asking those present to speak up if they know of a lawful impediment.

If convicted of bigamy in the UK he could get up to 7 years in jail.

coylemj · 30-04-2019 12:17PM

gmisk wrote: »

For example I am getting married in ROI and was born in Northern Ireland I had to get a document proving I wasnt married during my time living in Northern Ireland over the age of 16.

The problem with that procedure is that it relies on a person who is about to get married to be honest about the previous places they have lived in. A would-be biganist can simply omit to mention that they lived in country 'x', (where they are still legally married) and go ahead with a bigamist ceremony.

And an honest person would be saddled with the burden of writing to every country they ever lived in to get proof that they were not married. And see my post (#11) above regarding the situation if you ever lived in the US.

theteal · 30-04-2019 12:22PM

splinter65 wrote: »

If he’s not from the uk and he wants to get married there then the uk will require evidence from other countries he’s lived in to prove that he’s not already married.

coylemj wrote: »

I seriously doubt that that's the case. If you had lived in the US (where marriage is regulated by the individual states), would you need a letter from all 50 states to say you were never married? Because you could have lived in NY state and gone to Nevada for a weekend to get married, without ever having been domiciled in that state.

You don't need proof. The question is asked alright but a simple "yes/no" declaration is all it takes.

irelandrover · 30-04-2019 12:25PM

theteal wrote: »

You don't need proof. The question is asked alright but a simple "yes/no" declaration is all it takes.

I had to provide proof when I got married abroad that I wasn't married in Ireland.

theteal · 30-04-2019 12:29PM

irelandrover wrote: »

I had to provide proof when I got married abroad that I wasn't married in Ireland.

Different countries, different requirements so.

I was married in the UK, in the London borough of Havering to be exact. Again, I can remember the question on the form but that's s far as it went.

coylemj · 30-04-2019 12:33PM

irelandrover wrote: »

I had to provide proof when I got married abroad that I wasn't married in Ireland.

If you provide a name and date of birth, will the Irish registrar provide a letter to say that there is no record that you were ever married here?

In your case, did the requirement only extend to your home country? Were you asked if you had lived in any third countries and did you have to provide similar written proof in respect of those countries?

irelandrover · 30-04-2019 12:39PM

coylemj wrote: »

If you provide a name and date of birth, will the Irish registrar provide a letter to say that there is no record that you were ever married here?

In your case, did the requirement only extend to your home country? Were you asked if you had lived in any third countries and did you have to provide similar written proof in respect of those countries?

All countries I'd lived in, but i had only lived in Ireland. Here is what i had to apply for.

freedom to marry cert

Phileas Frog · 30-04-2019 01:01PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Whats strange about a third party making a complaint to the police about some random persons family life status?

Seriously>?

Because it's illegal. If you buggered children in your family life, i'd still be making a complaint.

....... · 30-04-2019 01:05PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

However, as his second marriage would be illegal this would leave his new 'wife' as a legal stranger - should he die she would not inherit anything as his first wife is still his legal next of kin.

Exactly - thats why I said the people affected would be the new wife and kids - for that very reason, they would legally be strangers.

However, on whats been posted so far, the man has not remarried and its just a case of the OP wanting to go after people for thought crime ala Minority Report.

....... · 30-04-2019 01:06PM

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Because it's illegal. If you buggered children in your family life, i'd still be making a complaint.

There is nothing illegal about being engaged while still married to someone else.

mvl · 30-04-2019 01:20PM

For the sake of argument, what if they marry in a country where bigamy is legal - would UK then accept the marriage ?
Lets assume a country that allows non-residents to marry, like Egypt.

Credit Checker Moose · 30-04-2019 01:25PM

....... wrote: »

Exactly - thats why I said the people affected would be the new wife and kids - for that very reason, they would legally be strangers.

However, on whats been posted so far, the man has not remarried and its just a case of the OP wanting to go after people for thought crime ala Minority Report.

+1

Unless this person has taken steps in the UK such as giving notice or applying for a marriage licence no crime has taken place.
The UK police do not yet have a pre crime department that could action thought crimes.

30-04-2019 01:41PM

Phileas Frog wrote:

Because it's illegal. If you buggered children in your family life, i'd still be making a complaint.

It's exactly the same ............

Bannasidhe · 30-04-2019 01:59PM

....... wrote: »

Exactly - thats why I said the people affected would be the new wife and kids - for that very reason, they would legally be strangers.

However, on whats been posted so far, the man has not remarried and its just a case of the OP wanting to go after people for thought crime ala Minority Report.

I think you are being harsh on the OP.
They seem to be worried that a crime may be committed and an innocent party suffers. They are looking for clarification as to whether it would be a crime. The answer is yes.
Perhaps the OP is worried that doing nothing - when they know for a fact there is a legal impediment - makes them an accessory. Morally if not legally.
It's hardly being "thought police" to wonder if they should act should a crime be about to be committed.

Plus - there wouldn't be many crimes solved if people thought 'that's none of my business - it only effects these people I don't know or care about."

sexmag · 30-04-2019 02:59PM

Sorry I've been busy with work to responde.

The person in question is my brother in law,married my sister 3 years ago, together 7 with 2 kids together,he up and did a runner.

He was tracked down and currently is engaged looking to be married in the UK,I cant go into specifics but know they will marry soon.

Is it up to my sister to report any fraudulent marriage or will it come out on it's own?

....... · 30-04-2019 03:01PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I think you are being harsh on the OP.
They seem to be worried that a crime may be committed and an innocent party suffers. They are looking for clarification as to whether it would be a crime. The answer is yes.
Perhaps the OP is worried that doing nothing - when they know for a fact there is a legal impediment - makes them an accessory. Morally if not legally.
It's hardly being "thought police" to wonder if they should act should a crime be about to be committed.

Plus - there wouldn't be many crimes solved if people thought 'that's none of my business - it only effects these people I don't know or care about."

There is no evidence that a crime may be committed. Unless you are a practicing and proven psychic?

Its nice that you think the OPs motive is to protect the innocent.

I think itd be nicer if people minded their own business and didnt try to vilify others for "pre crime".

Person looking to marry in the UK while still being married in Ireland

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