"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-04-2019 11:15AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

It wasnt really his choosing. He was essentially a weapon created by the children of the forest. The questions really should be pointed at them, not him.

Then why did he wait for centuries before attacking? Why now?

How Soon Is Now · 30-04-2019 11:17AM

GSPfan wrote: »

Anyone thinking Arya killing the NK was always on the cards from the start are just deluded. There isn’t even a NK in the books so it’s nonsense. Jon Snow was the man supposed to do it but they chose to do a twist and have Arya do it because thy thought that’s what was cool.

I get it people don't wanna see faults and flaws in there favourite TV show! I done it myself for long enough tried to ignore plot holes and issues knowing they would make up for it in the end!

Thing is the path there going down currently there not making up for anything there only making it worse!

You just can't ignore the over the top make it up as they go along plot armor and lazy writing at this stage.

And before anyone says we think we could do better ourselves no one thinks that!

There's just a lot of very frustrated fans that felt this show was finally going to be the one that would stand above everything else on every level and for so long it seemed that way yet it seems there going out of there way to fall at the final hurdle!

Relikk · 30-04-2019 11:18AM

naughtb4 wrote: »

Then why did he wait for centuries before attacking? Why now?

He couldn't pass the wall because it was fortified with magic that prevented any form of White Walker from passing through it. Daenerys' dragon helped him destroy a part of the wall for all of them to pass through.

Thou · 30-04-2019 11:21AM

Did people think Bran was going to get the chop but as a result NK would still be stopped as well? Would this have made the fact that the NK is now seemingly finished, less controversial for fans?

Bran must still have a major part to play in remaining episode's..

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-04-2019 11:21AM

Relikk wrote: »

He couldn't pass the wall because it was fortified with magic that prevented any form of White Walker from passing through it. Daenerys' dragon helped him destroy a part of the wall for all of them to pass through.

I more meant why create the army now - they were marching before meeting Daenrys

If an army of that size was North of the Wall, how were their wildlings left. I know I want too much. I just like to know why things happen

Dravokivich · 30-04-2019 11:22AM

naughtb4 wrote: »

Then why did he wait for centuries before attacking? Why now?

What's the rush when you've all the time in the world. It may be centuries to us, who think of a line of descendants, but to him it was nothing. The thought behind his strategy isn't much, seeing as it didn't do him well and he didn't bring anything new with him to the battle.

Standman · 30-04-2019 11:23AM

The writers said they only decided 3 years ago that Arya was going to be the NK killer.

How Soon Is Now · 30-04-2019 11:24AM

Thou wrote: »

Did people think Bran was going to get the chop but as a result NK would still be stopped as well? Would this have made the fact that the NK is now seemingly finished, less controversial for fans?

Bran must still have a major part to play in remaining episode's..

Ya I was actually hoping Bran would of caused something to happen in the end. I knew the pace the scene was going at something was gonna happen especially seeing as The Night King and Bran have this interaction together for few seconds where its like there talking without words!

podgemonster · 30-04-2019 11:25AM

Mokuba wrote: »

Why did Melisandre follow Stannis around then until Season 5, proclaiming him as the prince that was promised, if she knew the whole time it was Arya who would slay the Night King. Why did she then resurrect Jon Snow, and proclaim him as the candidate, hoping to stay by his side before being banished

There's nothing certain about Mels predictions, she's interpreting visions from flames, she has periods where she doubts herself also. She goes all in on Stannis because she firmly believes he is the Prince that was promised, up until S5E10. She goes as far as to burn a little girl believing its the right thing to do, something you can see she does regret later.

The opening episode of Season 6 shows Mel at her lowest point, she removes her glamour as a sobering moment as a reminder of her true self. She backed the wrong horse. She clearly a different character as this point and resurrecting Jon makes here then believe he is the promised one but her confidence is still shook.

The return of Mel in this episode after a 6 episode gap is a much more confident Mel. It's a this point she is certain about Arya's role and not before.

Keyzer · 30-04-2019 11:25AM

naughtb4 wrote: »

I more meant why create the army now - they were marching before meeting Daenrys

If an army of that size was North of the Wall, how were their wildlings left. I know I want too much. I just like to know why things happen

It might be wrong on this but I believe GRRM said he was doing a lot of management courses in WW University to prepare but he kept failing the exams because he was going out on the lash with the cool hair dudes.

sheepers · 30-04-2019 11:28AM

I feel duped. GOT broke the mold in its early seasons, but it's just become a paint by numbers good vs evil tale now.

I expect the final 3 episodes with mirror the 1st 3. So 2 episodes of our heroes sitting around jerking each other off, metaphorically, then an almighty battle all our heroes fight in invincible mode..and they all live happily every after.. What a gip.

podgemonster · 30-04-2019 11:30AM

naughtb4 wrote: »

Then why did he wait for centuries before attacking? Why now?

Because at this time:

He needed a dragon to take down the wall. He got one.
He needed the Nights watch at their weakest. Decimated
He needed the realms of men as divided. Kingdom is in bits
He also placed his mark on the new up and coming 3 eyes Raven removing all the magical protection the previous 3ER had in the cave.

For the NK it was the perfect time to attack.

IAMAMORON · 30-04-2019 11:30AM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Ya I was actually hoping Bran would of caused something to happen in the end. I knew the pace the scene was going at something was gonna happen especially seeing as The Night King and Bran have this interaction together for few seconds where its like there talking without words!

I am not sure this is over tbh. It kind of has me hanging a bit. Why was the Night King bothered with Bran in the first place? There is more to this story.

NuMarvel · 30-04-2019 11:34AM

naughtb4 wrote: »

Then why did he wait for centuries before attacking? Why now?

Biding his time probably. At this point, the Night's Watch had dwindled to just three castles out of 20 or so, and the people of Westeros were distracted fighting among themselves.

The only obstacle was the Wall, and adding a dragon to his arsenal took care of that.

Could he have known he'd come across a way to take down the Wall? Probably not. But he could be ready, especially when his forces would never tire or starve.

GSPfan · 30-04-2019 11:35AM

naughtb4 wrote: »

I more meant why create the army now - they were marching before meeting Daenrys

If an army of that size was North of the Wall, how were their wildlings left. I know I want too much. I just like to know why things happen

The dead couldn’t get past the wall but it didn’t stop them patrolling around killing everything and trying to grow their numbers. They weren’t specifically marching to the wall for a scrap but they also have no other pastimes either. They were biding their time and it worked..... to a degree.

supersaint3 · 30-04-2019 11:35AM

Anyone still saying the poor quality was down to tv settings should be given a ban at this stage.

I watched on my super tv on sky q, but in standard def and it was all down to the mix that was released, the quality was simply shocking, a very bad slip up in this day and age. As has been said before, they should be catering do the average person with the average tv.

How Soon Is Now · 30-04-2019 11:35AM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am not sure this is over tbh. It kind of has me hanging a bit. Why was the Night King bothered with Bran in the first place? There is more to this story.

Trust me i want something big to come of this id even be happy with Bran turning out to be the next night king and they both knew this hence the looks they gave each other but i just don't think there will be any massive swerves left at this point.

I think the best thing to do with this show at this stage is just don't expect to much from it and it might still surprise you! The excitement of what ifs etc is ruining the show just as much as anything else.

Thou · 30-04-2019 11:37AM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am not sure this is over tbh. It kind of has me hanging a bit. Why was the Night King bothered with Bran in the first place? There is more to this story.

You would really hope so, I might be wrong but I think GOT has for the most part not left much open for suggestion, that is up until now at least which is why NKs exit from the show is not sitting well with people, so yes hopefully more will be revealed but it's easy to have doubts about that at this stage.

NuMarvel · 30-04-2019 11:38AM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am not sure this is over tbh. It kind of has me hanging a bit. Why was the Night King bothered with Bran in the first place? There is more to this story.

Leaving aside the explanation they gave in the last episode, if I was a millenia old ice king intent on killing everyone and everything, the first thing I would do is take out the one person in the entire world who can find out absolutely everything about me and my armies.

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 11:42AM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

I think it's a legitimately difficult to choose who the "right" person was to kill the night king. If it's Jon or Dany, it's just stock heroics. If you go for a curveball and have Sam or Sansa do it, it feels like fan-fiction.

You can have a decent fighter like Thormond, Ayra, or Clegane do it, but it hasn't been earned from a narrative point of view.

For it to be a good death, it has to have meaning for the story as a whole, or have some major significance in relation to a character, or ideally both. From a story point of view killing the night king serves only to wrap up the plot. From a character point of view it's just Arya doing what she does best.

I mean it's not terrible in any way, but it doesn't do much in itself. Why I used Return of the Jedi as a counter example was that bumping off the emperor wasn't just being used as a way to tie up a plot, it was much more to do with character progression. Sure you could have someone who was good at killing people pop out of the shadows and do the dirty, but it wouldn't have been satisfying from a narrative perspective.

Also I am unsure why metal tempered by dragon fire would be instantly deadly when dragon fire itself made no impact, but that's a different matter.

I guess I just don't understand why Arya being the one to do it isn't earned or satisfying for a story pov. If she had no important role to play why have we been watching her learn to fight? why has it been a point that she doesn't want to be a lady? she's always been a fighter, she's always been sneaky and mischevious. Maybe she wasn't always supposed to be the one to kill the NK, but she has always had a big part to play at the end otherwise why is she here?

I haven't seen star wars btw so can't comment on that. I agree re the dragon fire massive inconsistency, if dragon glass kills them and essentially dragon steel kills them then dragon fire should too!

osarusan · 30-04-2019 11:45AM

Bacchus wrote: »

- The constant changes in the number and strength of the zombies throughout the episode.

They can annihilate thousands of Dothraki on horseback in a matter of 30-45 seconds, but fighters such as Jaime and Brienne can survive alone against them for any length of time.

Am I being too picky? I don't think so obviously, but obviously some others will think so. The writers just asked me to accept some very unrealistic things in this episode, too many things.

Mokuba · 30-04-2019 11:46AM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I guess I just don't understand why Arya being the one to do it isn't earned or satisfying for a story pov. If she had no important role to play why have we been watching her learn to fight? why has it been a point that she doesn't want to be a lady? she's always been a fighter, she's always been sneaky and mischevious. Maybe she wasn't always supposed to be the one to kill the NK, but she has always had a big part to play at the end otherwise why is she here?

Arya had two primary show long storylines, her finding her identity and fulfilling the list of names on her death list.

What was wrong with her arc being the culmination of the list, and letting other deal with the plot she had no involvement in?

nix · 30-04-2019 11:49AM

I'd be surprised if we got any further closure to the whole Night king/Bran dynamic, my prediction is its done, Brans gonna be nothing more than a glorified scout going forward.

Essien · 30-04-2019 11:49AM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I guess I just don't understand why Arya being the one to do it isn't earned or satisfying for a story pov. If she had no important role to play why have we been watching her learn to fight? why has it been a point that she doesn't want to be a lady? she's always been a fighter, she's always been sneaky and mischevious. Maybe she wasn't always supposed to be the one to kill the NK, but she has always had a big part to play at the end otherwise why is she here?

I have no problem with the execution of everything she did in last nights episode but for her story to peak with her killing the NK instead of Cersei just seems like throwing a curve ball for the sake of it.

I fully accept she is capable of what she did due to all the training we saw, but from a story telling perspective I just think it made no sense.

Pepp1989 · 30-04-2019 11:50AM

NuMarvel wrote:

Leaving aside the explanation they gave in the last episode, if I was a millenia old ice king intent on killing everyone and everything, the first thing I would do is take out the one person in the entire world who can find out absolutely everything about me and my armies.

Would you risk exposing yourself for this or wait another ten mins and have your wights do the job?

GooglePlus · 30-04-2019 11:52AM

Feels like this whole show is coming to a flat end and I'm really sad to have to say that. For such a build up of the white walkers, with serious time invested on that entire story path, we see it all ended in one mediocre scene.

I'd love nothing more for it to pick up and really blow me away but I get that sense we're in for a dud.

Mitch Connor · 30-04-2019 11:53AM

sheepers wrote: »

I feel duped. GOT broke the mold in its early seasons, but it's just become a paint by numbers good vs evil tale now.

I expect the final 3 episodes with mirror the 1st 3. So 2 episodes of our heroes sitting around jerking each other off, metaphorically, then an almighty battle all our heroes fight in invincible mode..and they all live happily every after.. What a gip.

Happily ever after?

Cersai and the Golden Army vs pretty much no-one might have something to say about that.

Penn · 30-04-2019 11:57AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Happily ever after?

Cersai and the Golden Army vs pretty much no-one might have something to say about that.

Two dragons vs Zero elephants though...

biggebruv · 30-04-2019 11:57AM

Alanhooly wrote: »

I want to love the episode, I really did but I just feel a little deflated.

It was just all too easy wasn't it. All the amazing theories I've read here & online and they're all debunked. It was just too easy.

No white walker even so much as swung a sword and bam, they're gone.

After all the tension that has been built for 8th seasons, it was just too quick & too easy.

I want myself to love it. Maybe I'll get there before next week. For now though, I'm struggling to.

BTW, the tension in the first 10 minutes of the episode was fantastic

Maybe there’s a link to being too invested in the online theorys world the exact same thing happened with LOST the online world for that show got so much out of hand they were never gonna be pleased with how it wrapped up

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 11:58AM

Mokuba wrote: »

Arya had two primary show long storylines, her finding her identity and fulfilling the list of names on her death list.

What was wrong with her arc being the culmination of the list, and letting other deal with the plot she had no involvement in?

that's a very simplistic way of looking at it really. Arcs evolve as characters evolve for the list to be the culmination of her entire storyline would be very narritively unatisfying. It would show she hadn't grown since she started keeping the list in what season 2?

Since Ned died in S01 Arya was trying to make her way back to her family, she's always been on that path, she took a detour when she though all her family were dead after the red wedding and her aunt Lysa dying before she got to the Eerie.
She acquired her fighting skills in the house of black and white, and abandoned her list, note we haven't seen her recite it in ages. Both the hound and Beric were on it and she didn't kill them even though she had plenty of opportunity which shows she's evolved.
She's now on a path to save her family and save her home the NK threatened both, with everything we know about her it would be utterly bizarre if she didn't make an attempt on his life.

Like the same could be said for Jon Snow in Season 1 his goal was to be come a member of the nights watch, why couldn't that have been his story arc? cos he has to grow and evolve as a character.
Sansa - In season one she wanted to marry the prince and have lots of babies, why couldn't the show be happy with that as her arc? again because character evolution is important.
The night king, has had no evolution, his arc has always been the same and from a character point of view he is utterly uninteresting.

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

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