"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

Dial Hard · 30-04-2019 10:25AM

Triceratops Ballet wrote:

Arya didn't accomplish anything in this episode that we haven't seen her do before. Everything she did was actually earned. The episode was flawed, majorly so in some spots. I don't think any of the Arya stuff was part of that

Also, I have no idea why people are ap hung up on the "Arya appearing out of nowhere" thing. The weirwood isn't the only tree in the Godswood, she could have been hiding/waiting in any of them for the night king.

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-04-2019 10:26AM

podgemonster wrote: »

The Children of the Forest created them in revenge for the realms of men taking their land and lost control the WW.The NK is a straight forward 1-dimesional big bad guy, seeking to destroy the realms of men. He is essentially death, Not gold, not power, not love, not revenge, not birth right is his motivations, he's not playing the Game of Thrones. He's moving down south like the blue tiles of the opening credits and destroys all in his wake. To have him speak would diminish his threat.

The fleshing out of "villains" is left to every other major adversarial characters who are often so complex that to call them "villains" is doing their characters a disservice as many given their situation are doing what they believe is right.

Why is he doing this?

OneOfThem Stumbled · 30-04-2019 10:26AM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Arya didn't accomplish anything in this episode that we haven't seen her do before. Everything she did was actually earned. The episode was flawed, majorly so in some spots. I don't think any of the Arya stuff was part of that

Return of the Jedi.
Emperor's throne room.
Luke is brought in by Vadar.
Emperor: Leave us
Emperor's guard disappear.
Chewbacca fires off a crossbow bolt that hits the emperor in the chest, instantly killing him.
Roll credits.

Fans: Chewbacca didn't do anything we hadn't seen him do before.

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 10:27AM

ITs been building since season 2 for Arya to be the one ,

Remember when she first meet the red witch in season 2 , the witch said " I see a darkness in you , You will close many eyes forever, Brown, BLUE and Green ,

Bran giving here the dagger that she used , her always playing and sneaking around winter fell as kid , there was a lot of foreshadowing ,

Shanotheslayer · 30-04-2019 10:29AM

I watched on 1080P in a dark room and had absolutely no lighting issues.

It's definitely a configuration issue on some TV's I think.

How Soon Is Now · 30-04-2019 10:33AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

ITs been building since season 2 for Arya to be the one ,

Remember when she first meet the red witch in season 2 , the witch said " I see a darkness in you , You will close many eyes forever, Brown, BLUE and Green ,

Bran giving here the dagger that she used , her always playing and sneaking around winter fell as kid , there was a lot of foreshadowing ,

https://www.vulture.com/2019/04/the-game-of-throne-creators-always-knew-it-would-be-arya.html

Read that.

RickBlaine · 30-04-2019 10:34AM

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I watched on 1080P in a dark room and had absolutely no lighting issues.

It's definitely a configuration issue on some TV's I think.

I think the compression used by Sky and HBO is also an issue.

homerun_homer · 30-04-2019 10:35AM

Keyzer wrote: »

But how, in the name of Satan, did she get that close to the NK without him, his long haired lieutenants and a load of wights not noticing?
No chance. Remember, the NK sensed (or at least it appeared that way) that Jon was coming for him, he raised the dead to prevent him from getting closer.

Its disappointing such a massive story line ended this way.

The Night King clearly sees Jon Snow as his main opponent. He raised the dead out on the battlefield to kill/delay him from getting near the Mirkwood tree where Bran was waiting. Then the dragon to wreak havoc in a key area Jon needed to get through.

He has no clue about Arya. Not to say they let their guard down, but given her training to be silent and deadly, they lost as a result of not realising anyone else had the stealth & potential to get to him. She grew up in Winterfell so is the best person to know how to sneak around it.

30-04-2019 10:36AM

It was disappointing for many reasons, but mainly because it ruined the white walkers. They were supposed to be the 1 big evil. The real threat.

It’s been alluded to for years that people should be sending good men to protect the wall but the humans were ignorant. There was many sightings of white walkers but again most people didn’t believe.

Even Tyrion mentioned that most people don’t have the capacity to think of big things like an army of the dead, so focus on simpler things like a throne.

It was all shaping up that the white walkers were the real enemy. And then they just sort of fizzled out.

None of the white walkers even got involved in the battle. Why did they attack after all these years? How did they let Arya just breeze past them all?

Not even a big character death after the whole fireplace scene.

The only real purpose of the white walkers was to unite a bunch of humans against another bunch of humans.

Essien · 30-04-2019 10:36AM

ush wrote: »

Wait until you see the zombie blue fire breathing dragon.

Is this type of thing still considered a valid argument on this forum?

Some things defy real world logic, therefore everything can defy all logic?

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 10:37AM

expectationlost wrote: »

that he was killed so abruptly and it *seems* to be the end of him...

well there was always going to be a loser of the battle of Winterfell, and from a story perspective him being the final villain was never going to work so he had to die, it's not really abrupt, he's been menacing for a couple of seasons now. His story has come to a climax and it's over

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 10:39AM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Return of the Jedi.
Emperor's throne room.
Luke is brought in by Vadar.
Emperor: Leave us
Emperor's guard disappear.
Chewbacca fires off a crossbow bolt that hits the emperor in the chest, instantly killing him.
Roll credits.

Fans: Chewbacca didn't do anything we hadn't seen him do before.

I don't know what your point is TBH? is it that you think the wrong person killed the night king?

NuMarvel · 30-04-2019 10:39AM

Tilikum17 wrote: »

They should of had Arya fight a white walker, then the next scene have the nk approach bran with a white walker either side of him. Just before he kills bran, Arya disguised as a white walker kills stabs him in the chest. Better than having her jump out of mid air.

Respectfully, I don't think Arya taking on the guise of a millenia old, ice demon is more believable than her jumping out of mid-air.

How would she have taken on the disguise in the first place? They disintegrate when they die, and I doubt one of them would have willingly given her their face and form.

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 10:43AM

One thing I hope to god doesn't happen is that someone how they still have a sizeable army next week
,
It looked like there was max about 30 people left so how are they going to fight Cersei and the gold company ,

homerun_homer · 30-04-2019 10:43AM

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I watched on 1080P in a dark room and had absolutely no lighting issues.

It's definitely a configuration issue on some TV's I think.

Some TVs... The amount of people complaining on here and Twitter and being picked up by the media is more than some TVs. A TV show is made to be watched on standard set TVs. They know how people are viewing shows and should have decent light levels to be viewed as such. It's not Roma, coming with a spec of how to set your tv before watching it for optimal viewing experience. If that was what they wanted then they could have put that out there.

Dial Hard · 30-04-2019 10:44AM

Deleted User wrote:

It was all shaping up that the white walkers were the real enemy. And then they just sort of fizzled out.

They've wiped out pretty much Dany's entire army and have potentially stopped her bid for the iron throne. I'd say that made them a pretty deadly enemy, despite the fact that they were ultimately defeated.

AlanG · 30-04-2019 10:49AM

Pretty disappointed with that - writers have gone from the Grimm Brothers to Warner Brothers. More miracle survival form the main characters. What was the point of the White Walkers - they didn't fight, didn't protect the Night King and didn't try to throw spears at the dragons during the battle. The Night King turned out to be a really poor leader and its a disappointing end to the longest running story in GOT. The battle was good but I would think hardhome was better and more realistic in keeping with the universe created.
The last couple of season seem to have been written for the Marvel and DC comic audience which is fine as a commercial decision but is not in keeping with the first few seasons.

no.8 · 30-04-2019 10:50AM

Deleted User wrote:

It was all shaping up that the white walkers were the real enemy. And then they just sort of fizzled out.

This is ridiculous. The WW's watch command squadrons of wights. They defended themselves with vortices / cloud cover when they saw Jon approach. General Patton didn't get involved in hand to hand combat. Seriously

jebidiah · 30-04-2019 10:53AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

ITs been building since season 2 for Arya to be the one ,

Remember when she first meet the red witch in season 2 , the witch said " I see a darkness in you , You will close many eyes forever, Brown, BLUE and Green ,

Bran giving here the dagger that she used , her always playing and sneaking around winter fell as kid , there was a lot of foreshadowing ,

Since season 1 actually. She was learning to sneak and chase cats around the red keep. Quick as a snake, quiet as a shadow, what do we say to the god of death?

In season two she practiced hiding in plain sight by being Tywin's table girl.

Dravokivich · 30-04-2019 10:59AM

Mokuba wrote: »

Why does he want to destroy men?

Is it because he is a villain? Is it too much to expect some depth given to the villains of the show? Even Marvel gave Thanos some bloody motivation. They wrote the Night King into generic bad guy villain.

As for him being lured into a vulnerable place, it certainly didn't seem vulnerable when he was protected by a horde of white walkers and wights, but clearly he didn't account for any invincible teleporting badasses in attendance.

It wasnt really his choosing. He was essentially a weapon created by the children of the forest. The questions really should be pointed at them, not him.

razorblunt · 30-04-2019 11:01AM

homerun_homer wrote: »

The Night King clearly sees Jon Snow as his main opponent. He raised the dead out on the battlefield to kill/delay him from getting near the Mirkwood tree where Bran was waiting. Then the dragon to wreak havoc in a key area Jon needed to get through.

He has no clue about Arya. Not to say they let their guard down, but given her training to be silent and deadly, they lost as a result of not realising anyone else had the stealth & potential to get to him. She grew up in Winterfell so is the best person to know how to sneak around it.

Its also worth noting that he heard Jon running after him.

Keyzer · 30-04-2019 11:02AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

ITs been building since season 2 for Arya to be the one ,

Remember when she first meet the red witch in season 2 , the witch said " I see a darkness in you , You will close many eyes forever, Brown, BLUE and Green ,

Bran giving here the dagger that she used , her always playing and sneaking around winter fell as kid , there was a lot of foreshadowing ,

I think people have an issue with the way it was done versus who did it - I certainly do. No issue with Arya being the one. Its how easy she sailed through the WW defences.

Mousewar · 30-04-2019 11:02AM

It was a good episode. I enjoyed it immensely.

Sapochik is a superb director. He built tension beautifully at the start and sprinkled some wonderful visuals throughout. He did that in the Battle of the Bastards as well – think of Jon standing alone in front of a stampeding cavalry. Here, we got dragons in the moonlight and the charging lights of the Dothraki into the darkness and then their gradual extinguishing.

That brings me to my first quibble. The Dothraki rushing off in the darkness didn’t make a whole lot of sense but, as I always say, if you’re going to do something that doesn’t make a massive amount of sense, at least get something really good out of it and they did. They got that beautiful visual I mentioned above which managed to communicate a massive battle with really nothing more than suggestion. And it drove home the threat of the undead early and decisively.

I didn’t seem to have the same problems with the lighting as others. I felt I could see everything quite clearly, certainly as clearly as I’d expect from a chaotic battle in a blizzard in the middle of the night. Fast edits and shaky calm is great at getting across the madness of war and I think they did it very well.
I thought they misdirected the reveal of Arya being the one to kill the Night King very well. Having constant footage of Jon trying to reach him really did make you forget that anyone else might try also. I did think the visual of Arya literally jumping out of nowhere was a little hammy and a little Hollywood but it did make sense. The episode established three things quite well.

1) The Night King is hard to get to. Jon tried it and the NK simply raised a few hundred corpses to fend him off. If it was going to happen it needed an assassin. And no one fits that bill better than Arya
2) The show has spent years establishing Arya as an effective and ninja like killer but they did it last night as well. In what seemed like an odd scene at the time, with battle raging everywhere, we watched Arya evading wights in the castle by stealth. They were literally telling us that this girl can get past people unnoticed.
3) Destiny was on her side. Beric died after being resurrected a whole bunch of times. If all that resurrection had a point then that point must have been whatever he achieved with his last breath. Protecting Arya meant she was the point and Melisandre recognised that.

I probably could have done with the death of someone truly significant. The only one I actually cared about at all was Jorah. One of Brienne, Thormund, Sam, Davos, or Greyworm would have fit the bill. I also think a really early, sudden death of one of them would have stayed true to the GOT ethos.

But to be honest, all my quibbles are minor ones. I think they put together an excellent episode. And I’m especially pleased that the show will climax between the humans rather than between the humans and the white walkers. The NK is great and all but he’s essentially characterless. I always thought Jon/Dernerys facing off against Cersei at the very end will be much more satisfying given how much more invested we are in them.

PS: I saw someone complaining about the Night King taking an age to kill Bran. I mean, that was literally slow motion effect. He wasn’t actually waking at a snail’s pace or standing in front of him doing nothing for ages. They just slowed it down to drag out the tension.

Mokuba · 30-04-2019 11:05AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

ITs been building since season 2 for Arya to be the one ,

Remember when she first meet the red witch in season 2 , the witch said " I see a darkness in you , You will close many eyes forever, Brown, BLUE and Green ,

Bran giving here the dagger that she used , her always playing and sneaking around winter fell as kid , there was a lot of foreshadowing ,

Why did Melisandre follow Stannis around then until Season 5, proclaiming him as the prince that was promised, if she knew the whole time it was Arya who would slay the Night King. Why did she then resurrect Jon Snow, and proclaim him as the candidate, hoping to stay by his side before being banished

It's absolutely lowest common denominator retconning in order to make it seem like they knew what they were doing, and they must be crossing their fingers, hoping you'll ignore how nonsensical everything else is if you follow that logic.

GSPfan · 30-04-2019 11:08AM

Anyone thinking Arya killing the NK was always on the cards from the start are just deluded. Jon Snow was the man supposed to do it but they chose to do a twist and have Arya do it because thy thought that’s what was cool.

Deleted some book information in this post - sorry. I haven’t read them but still know a thing or two about them.

OneOfThem Stumbled · 30-04-2019 11:11AM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I don't know what your point is TBH? is it that you think the wrong person killed the night king?

I think it's a legitimately difficult to choose who the "right" person was to kill the night king. If it's Jon or Dany, it's just stock heroics. If you go for a curveball and have Sam or Sansa do it, it feels like fan-fiction.

You can have a decent fighter like Thormond, Ayra, or Clegane do it, but it hasn't been earned from a narrative point of view.

For it to be a good death, it has to have meaning for the story as a whole, or have some major significance in relation to a character, or ideally both. From a story point of view killing the night king serves only to wrap up the plot. From a character point of view it's just Arya doing what she does best.

I mean it's not terrible in any way, but it doesn't do much in itself. Why I used Return of the Jedi as a counter example was that bumping off the emperor wasn't just being used as a way to tie up a plot, it was much more to do with character progression. Sure you could have someone who was good at killing people pop out of the shadows and do the dirty, but it wouldn't have been satisfying from a narrative perspective.

Also I am unsure why metal tempered by dragon fire would be instantly deadly when dragon fire itself made no impact, but that's a different matter.

Dravokivich · 30-04-2019 11:11AM

Mokuba wrote: »

Why did Melisandre follow Stannis around then until Season 5, proclaiming him as the prince that was promised, if she knew the whole time it was Arya who would slay the Night King. Why did she then resurrect Jon Snow, and proclaim him as the candidate, hoping to stay by his side before being banished

It's absolutely lowest common denominator retconning in order to make it seem like they knew what they were doing, and they must be crossing their fingers, hoping you'll ignore how nonsensical everything else is if you follow that logic.

She didn't. She never really knew who would affect the battle in the long term. Through Stannis and his agenda she came to know gendry, Arya and Jon. Even during the trench scene, she showed how much she doubted what she was doing when it took so long to light it up.

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 11:12AM

Mokuba wrote: »

Why did Melisandre follow Stannis around then until Season 5, proclaiming him as the prince that was promised, if she knew the whole time it was Arya who would slay the Night King. Why did she then resurrect Jon Snow, and proclaim him as the candidate, hoping to stay by his side before being banished

It's absolutely lowest common denominator retconning in order to make it seem like they knew what they were doing, and they must be crossing their fingers, hoping you'll ignore how nonsensical everything else is if you follow that logic.

Hasn't she said before she just sees stuff in the flames and interprets it ?

Maybe it only dawned on her when she seen Ayra at Winter fell that the blue was the KN Remember when she said in season 2, " You will close eyes forever, Brown , BLUE , green "

I think everyone thought the blue was the Lannister's

OneOfThem Stumbled · 30-04-2019 11:13AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Maybe it only dawned on her when she seen Ayra at Winter fell that the blue was the KN Remember when she said in season 2, " You will close eyes forever, Brown , BLUE , green "

I think everyone thought the blue was the Lannister's

So did the writers at the time, I'd wager.

Mokuba · 30-04-2019 11:13AM

GSPfan wrote: »

Anyone thinking Arya killing the NK was always on the cards from the start are just deluded. There isn’t even a NK in the books so it’s nonsense. Jon Snow was the man supposed to do it but they chose to do a twist and have Arya do it because thy thought that’s what was cool.

And people saying Beric is evidence of any long term plan are also talking rubbish. Seeing as GRRM wrote

HIS BLOODY DEATH

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

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