"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

Penn · 29-04-2019 03:32PM

fash wrote: »

possibly with some psychic plane fight between Bran and the Night king.

nix · 29-04-2019 03:34PM

Necro wrote: »

Ok the naysayers are here in force. Whatevs. I'm out.

Sorry to burst your "everything is awesome" bubble :pac:

sabat wrote: »

They should have hired Sam Raimi to direct this episode:

Ooooohhhhh there's a sight for sore bones :pac:

WhiteMemento9 · 29-04-2019 03:35PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Okay.

So I can put some more coherent thoughts as to why I didnt like that. I will try to put the criticisms in chronological order.

1. Game of Thrones is character driven and no character is safe. That was the most enjoyable part of the show. You just knew that no one was safe and it added to the tension. Ned Stark. Robb Stark. Stannis. Jon Snow. Tywin Lannister. Jamie's right hand. The Hound. The Mountain. Oberyn Martell. etc. I really really enjoyed the Scene in Episode 2 as a consequence where a lot of people I expected to be imminently dead were sitting around before a battle, Man I thought, this is going to be so powerful on a rewatch when all these characters die next week.

2. ENOURMOUS inconsistencies. Hello. I'm the Dorthraki horde. 50,000 Screamers. But we've lived our life like a candle in the wind. Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge. *Snuff*
Hello. We are 100,000 Dead Army. We have broken in Winterfell. Yipee. We have killed EVERYONE except the 5 main characters. Sam- NO fighting skills. Alive. Check. The Onion Knight- Not a shread of combat ability. Alive- Check. Sir Brienne and Pod. On the field- survival check.

3. Sir Friend Zone. Sole Survivor of the Dothraki Horde attack. Teleports back to Winterfell ahead of the dead. Teleports into Winterfell ahead of the dead minus one horse. Teleports back over the wall. Over the 100,000 Dead to Dani to protect her from the horde who suddenly decide to obey the rules of Chivilery and attack one at a time.

4. Speaking of Chivilery. Reek, aka Theon the Peon completes his redemption character arc which no-one gives a **** about by playing matador with the Knight King. Oh look I'm out of arrows and the dead are running back and forth like duck hunt. Lets have a chat with Bran and chaaaaaarge. *Snuff*

5. Arya. I'm on the wall. Oh no. The wall is overfun and I cannot swing my broomstick. I guess I'll head inside and play the last of us. Sneak level increased to 56. I'n being chased by 50 dead but I am rescued by the knight brought back 7 times to save me so I can play Super Mario with the knight king.

6. I'm a dragon. Oh. I am also a dragon. Nice to meet you. Lets play in the Clouds and the dark. WTF is happening. Its so dark. Oh wait the night king has fallen off. Oh look dragon fire doesnt burn him. Oh look at that cheeky smile.

7. Hi, I'm Jon Snow. I'm BRILLIANT at hide and seek. Exit Dragon. Chase night king. Raises the dead- 50,000 Dothraki. 20,000 unsullied. Okay lads, one at a time. Oh my gf has started the barbacue. Great Sir Friend zone can I borrow your teleporter to somehow get past all the dead into Winterfell. Oh Look a dragon. Fire. HIDE, SEEK. Dodgeball chamption 2019.

The production was fantastic. The scene was set. Until it got more and more and more and more ridiculous.

I can suspend disbelief in a show that has dragons ffs. but that was an hour and a half cartoon that basically pissed away the 5 books and the last 7 seasons.

The Battle of the Bastards was the most realistic depiction of battle I have ever seen on a screen.

That was the most ridiculous. It was beyond bad.

This, this and more this. Loved the show and more than anything just sad to see it fizzle out in such fashion.

ogsjw · 29-04-2019 03:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought Martin had agreed the outline of the story with them since they went off book though..you'd think they'd have decided on who killed yer man, and how..

This is the first episode where I felt they really strayed away from what will happen in the books. Also hated Arya taking out NK. She's been such a smug and irritating character in the show since Day 1. They blocked Jon Snow from having an epic swordfight with him too? Sigh.

RollieFingers · 29-04-2019 03:36PM

Necro wrote: »

Ok the naysayers are here in force. Whatevs. I'm out.

Sign of a weak argument there.

mystic86 · 29-04-2019 03:37PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Okay.

So I can put some more coherent thoughts as to why I didnt like that. I will try to put the criticisms in chronological order.

1. Game of Thrones is character driven and no character is safe. That was the most enjoyable part of the show. You just knew that no one was safe and it added to the tension. Ned Stark. Robb Stark. Stannis. Jon Snow. Tywin Lannister. Jamie's right hand. The Hound. The Mountain. Oberyn Martell. etc. I really really enjoyed the Scene in Episode 2 as a consequence where a lot of people I expected to be imminently dead were sitting around before a battle, Man I thought, this is going to be so powerful on a rewatch when all these characters die next week.

2. ENOURMOUS inconsistencies. Hello. I'm the Dorthraki horde. 50,000 Screamers. But we've lived our life like a candle in the wind. Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge. *Snuff*
Hello. We are 100,000 Dead Army. We have broken in Winterfell. Yipee. We have killed EVERYONE except the 5 main characters. Sam- NO fighting skills. Alive. Check. The Onion Knight- Not a shread of combat ability. Alive- Check. Sir Brienne and Pod. On the field- survival check.

3. Sir Friend Zone. Sole Survivor of the Dothraki Horde attack. Teleports back to Winterfell ahead of the dead. Teleports into Winterfell ahead of the dead minus one horse. Teleports back over the wall. Over the 100,000 Dead to Dani to protect her from the horde who suddenly decide to obey the rules of Chivilery and attack one at a time.

4. Speaking of Chivilery. Reek, aka Theon the Peon completes his redemption character arc which no-one gives a **** about by playing matador with the Knight King. Oh look I'm out of arrows and the dead are running back and forth like duck hunt. Lets have a chat with Bran and chaaaaaarge. *Snuff*

5. Arya. I'm on the wall. Oh no. The wall is overfun and I cannot swing my broomstick. I guess I'll head inside and play the last of us. Sneak level increased to 56. I'n being chased by 50 dead but I am rescued by the knight brought back 7 times to save me so I can play Super Mario with the knight king.

6. I'm a dragon. Oh. I am also a dragon. Nice to meet you. Lets play in the Clouds and the dark. WTF is happening. Its so dark. Oh wait the night king has fallen off. Oh look dragon fire doesnt burn him. Oh look at that cheeky smile.

7. Hi, I'm Jon Snow. I'm BRILLIANT at hide and seek. Exit Dragon. Chase night king. Raises the dead- 50,000 Dothraki. 20,000 unsullied. Okay lads, one at a time. Oh my gf has started the barbacue. Great Sir Friend zone can I borrow your teleporter to somehow get past all the dead into Winterfell. Oh Look a dragon. Fire. HIDE, SEEK. Dodgeball chamption 2019.

The production was fantastic. The scene was set. Until it got more and more and more and more ridiculous.

I can suspend disbelief in a show that has dragons ffs. but that was an hour and a half cartoon that basically pissed away the 5 books and the last 7 seasons.

The Battle of the Bastards was the most realistic depiction of battle I have ever seen on a screen.

That was the most ridiculous. It was beyond bad.

Jaysus. Sometimes people like an album, but not a band. As in, they love 1 or 2 albums that band released, but the band evolve and you hate everything else they put out, but you continue to say you love that band, but then go around saying that they have really fallen since such and such an album. It could be a 10 album career, and you still cling on to one or two that you love, and slate the rest. In that situation, maybe it's more accurate to say you love such and such an album, but not the band in general. Reading your post, I think this must describe you. A lot of those criticisms are ridiculous. You want it to be a certain way, it wasn't.

29-04-2019 03:37PM

ogsjw wrote: »

This is the first episode where I felt they really strayed away from what will happen in the books. Also hated Arya taking out NK. She's been such a smug and irritating character in the show since Day 1. They blocked Jon Snow from having an epic swordfight with him too? Sigh.

Ah, I wouldn't have had any major issue with Aria killing him..if it wasn't done like it was some manga comic or something..

29-04-2019 03:40PM

ogsjw wrote: »

This is the first episode where I felt they really strayed away from what will happen in the books. Also hated Arya taking out NK. She's been such a smug and irritating character in the show since Day 1. They blocked Jon Snow from having an epic swordfight with him too? Sigh.

It gets worse. The Night King is played by Vladimir Furdik, the stuntman who plays Arthur Dayne at the Tower of Joy. These fukers had an actual actor who was the Night King, and a stuntman capable of acting as Arthur Dayne, and didn't use his skills.

Tf are these lads smoking.

RickBlaine · 29-04-2019 03:40PM

I was very impressed with the scope and ambition of this episode, especially for something made for TV.

I had always assumed that the NK would be defeated in this episode so I wasn't disappointed by that. He was very one dimensional and I've always considered Cersei to be the real villain of this series. The best way I can describe the episode is "missed opportunities". There are so many cool and interesting things they could have done but didn't, for example:

- Instead of pinning Brianne and Jaime against a wall for the whole battle, have them fight some white walkers. Same with Tormond who seemed to disappear in the second half of the episode. That would also give the WWs something to do because they did nothing at all during the battle.

- Have a character fight a wight version of another character they care about, like Jaime vs Brianne.

- The final lineup seemed all wrong. The wight dragon should have been trying to kill Dany not Jon. That would have made it more personal because he was one of her children. Jon should have fought the NK at the end. I don't have a problem with Arya killing him, but I think it should have been done after he fought with Jon and the NK is just about to kill him.

- Sam should have always been in the crypts. Dany told Tyrion to stay in the crypts because his mind was his most important asset. Same with Sam. Then Sam could have defended Gilly from the wights in the crypts.

- Unless Greyworm has a vital role to play in the next three eps (I doubt it), he should have been killed. Keeping him alive for Missandre isn't a good enough reason. That love story is fairly superfluous. His death would mean he could come back as a wight and fight Ser Jorah.

So the episode we actually got was pretty good but I don't get the sense that the writers really challenged themselves and maybe relied too much on the spectacle rather than the battle's plot. Loads of missed opportunities. It could have been a lot better.

Hazys · 29-04-2019 03:40PM

fash wrote: »

Agreed, a post I made earlier didn't get through for some reason- the night king story should have been even bigger- it's over 8000 years of history, resulted in the building of a gigantic mountain range sized wall of ice and installation of an 8000 year army to man that wall.
His story end was little more than if when he and his army approached the wall, he slipped on some ice and broke his neck. Properly, the night king battle should have happened over 2 episodes with a cliff hanger - possibly with some psychic plane fight between Bran and the Night king.

The way the Night King was built up, i thought once when they revealed his true intentions that it would be some big metaphor for humanity that us the viewers would be left with some questions serious about how we live our lives. Hell i would have settle for a metaphor about global warming but nah one battle and hes dead, that's it.

WhiteMemento9 · 29-04-2019 03:40PM

Hazys wrote: »

Seems like RR Martin was struggling with the story line that seemed so important, didn't have any ideas how to finish it or have it interact with all the other story lines so they just killed him off.

He hasn't anything to do with the show at this point hence the massive decline in quality.

29-04-2019 03:43PM

mystic86 wrote: »

Jaysus. Sometimes people like an album, but not a band. As in, they love 1 or 2 albums that band released, but the band evolve and you hate everything else they put out, but you continue to say you love that band, but then go around saying that they have really fallen since such and such an album. It could be a 10 album career, and you still cling on to one or two that you love, and slate the rest. In that situation, maybe it's more accurate to say you love such and such an album, but not the band in general. Reading your post, I think this must describe you. A lot of those criticisms are ridiculous. You want it to be a certain way, it wasn't.

A TV show like GoT is an album, not a band. Marvel is a band.

29-04-2019 03:43PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Meh.. didn't think the darkness was too bad..
Anyway.. shouting for Cersei for the rest of it..

that cougar ho's days are numbered.

WhiteMemento9 · 29-04-2019 03:45PM

Hazys wrote: »

What was the point of Bran and his dynamic with the night king? he spent all those seasons north of the wall becoming The Three Eyed Raven, just to find out Jon was the rightful king seems like a complete waste. During the whole battle he was warging into ravens, was that all he was doing? the ravens did fcuk all in the battle? So many questions but i doubt they will be answered in the next 3 episodes as according to the preview of ep4, they are straight onto Cersei now. Very disappointing.

It was to lure the Night King to his destination. I forget the exact details but the Night King can see his location when he is greensighting.

29-04-2019 03:46PM

glasso wrote: »

that cougar ho's days are numbered.

She could challenge them to an act-off..
None of the rest of them would stand a chance..

mystic86 · 29-04-2019 03:46PM

Deleted User wrote: »

A TV show like GoT is an album, not a band. Marvel is a band.

I disagree. 8 seasons long show.

Marvel? Would a record label not be a more apt metaphor?

29-04-2019 03:48PM

It's more like the best of the Village People at this stage..

29-04-2019 03:48PM

mystic86 wrote: »

I disagree. 8 seasons long show.

Marvel? Would a record label not be a more apt metaphor?

I don't think what should be a coherent journey from start to finish should be called a band. That's what an album is for. Bands change all the time, so i guess it could be GoT and the spin-offs.

Marvel being a record label works. Brings certain artists together for collaborations and that.

Sparko · 29-04-2019 03:51PM

I was glad Mellisandre turned up immediately, because I saw her name in the credits and it would have annoyed me for the whole episode trying to work out when she was going to appear so thankfully I was spared that!

mystic86 · 29-04-2019 03:51PM

I think this show brought in lovers of real character driven TV shows, like Sopranos, The Wire etc., because GOT was also so good at that, but from some of the comments here it really looks like a lot of people are forgetting this is a science fiction, fantasy story.

29-04-2019 03:54PM

It just dawned upon me that if the red witch didn't show up, the dothraki would be riding in with regular weapons? They didn't look like dragon glass. That is an insanely stupid oversight by Jon and co. I'm going to pretend they had dragon glass weapons made for them.

WhiteMemento9 · 29-04-2019 03:54PM

When Tyrion went out with the dagger I thought he was going to be followed by a shocked Sansa looking on to a scene that looked like he has bested the whole lot of them when they fell over after Bran took out the hive mind :pac:

29-04-2019 03:56PM

mystic86 wrote: »

I think this show brought in lovers of real character driven TV shows, like Sopranos, The Wire etc., because GOT was also so good at that, but from some of the comments here it really looks like a lot of people are forgetting this is a science fiction, fantasy story.

It's not really that. I could have been satisfied with some more complex dialogue in the first two episodes and a more logical approach to the battle in the third episode.

At this point, I'm really not asking for much. Setting up the trebuchets and trenches where the other should be is just nonsense that ruins any sense of immersion. Thousands or tens of thousands died because of that inexplicable decision. It's hard to just ignore how blatantly stupid that is.

Same with the Dothraki. We had a show that tried to show us how intelligent is was, and now we've wiped out an entire race just to see their swords disappear and add tension.

In a couple of years, this will be viewed like Dexter and Lost etc. But it's unnecessary. Some fixes would have placated us and we could have written off the lack of more serious character focus on the increasing speed of the story.

leggo · 29-04-2019 03:58PM

Another thing: I actually liked how they didn’t kill Greyworm. I’m still not certain he’s getting to the beaches of Naarth when all is said and done, but they knew what they were doing telegraphing that so hard then giving us an extended Greyworm scene during the battle where things look bleak. Why is it just deaths that have to be unpredictable? It’s cool where we can all be sure one character is dying and their survival is unpredictable too.

Now we assume he’s going to ride off into the sunset with Missandei, so if he does actually die, it’ll have more of an impact and we won’t just be ticking it off our death pools. Again, you have to remember lads that there are 3 episodes and presumably some major deaths still to come. If they skimmed the core cast down to the bone here, you’ve pretty much just got Jon and Dany left.

brianregan09 · 29-04-2019 04:01PM

Didn't realize the amount of Army Generals posting in here with the amount of tactics knowledge we could over throw a government or 2 surely

fash · 29-04-2019 04:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

In a couple of years, this will be viewed like Dexter and Lost etc. But it's unnecessary. Some fixes would have placated us and we could have written off the lack of more serious character focus on the increasing speed of the story.

Exactly - it could have stayed great - Breaking Bad great- but instead it has become Star Wars prequel-esque - a wasted opportunity where small changes could have kept it as a full work of art.

29-04-2019 04:03PM

Honestly leggo, the "I wish more characters died." is purely coming from episode two. If they didn't intend to kill them now, they should have had a fairer battle with a better military strategy, and use episode two for more concrete dialogue.

I feel like those 50 minutes were stolen from the show.

NuMarvel · 29-04-2019 04:04PM

mystic86 wrote: »

I think this show brought in lovers of real character driven TV shows, like Sopranos, The Wire etc., because GOT was also so good at that, but from some of the comments here it really looks like a lot of people are forgetting this is a science fiction, fantasy story.

I don't agree with some of the people criticising the episode, but it doesn't sound like they've forgotten that. The last few seasons have heavily featured dragons, white walkers/wights, and warging (amongst other things), so it's hard to miss that it's a fantasy show.

29-04-2019 04:04PM

brianregan09 wrote: »

Didn't realize the amount of Army Generals posting in here with the amount of tactics knowledge we could over throw a government or 2 surely

You don't put trenches behind you and artillery in front of you. It's so comically basic.

Their use of the best horsemen in their world was to ride them blind into darkness with no weapons that do damage. An initial foray with arrows of dragon glass followed by a flanking manoeuvre was the obvious.

J. Marston · 29-04-2019 04:08PM

40 minute behind the scenes video on the episode. Impressive that Maisie Williams did all the sword fighting left handed despite being right handed because Arya is a lefty in the books...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3M0Xt97aFI

And at this point I'm just going to laugh at all the people who clearly spend too much time on TV tropes to enjoy anything.

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

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