"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

The Iron Giant · 29-04-2019 02:55PM

fash wrote: »

there are options in between "all" and "none".

Same difference though. People were never going to be happy whether it was zero, one or all.

nix · 29-04-2019 02:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm absolutely furious we didn't get to see Ned Stark rising from the crypt :pac:

It was a long shot but I was really hoping for it. It dawned upon me halfway through that it was very unlikely his body and head (last seen on a pike) was transported north in the middle of a war.

Would be hard to recognise him without his head :pac:

solerina · 29-04-2019 02:58PM

Loved it....No one killed the Night King !!!!!

The Iron Giant · 29-04-2019 02:59PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm absolutely furious we didn't get to see Ned Stark rising from the crypt :pac:

It was a long shot but I was really hoping for it. It dawned upon me halfway through that it was very unlikely his body and head (last seen on a pike) was transported north in the middle of a war.

Haha maybe he did but without the head, maybe he just walked straight into a wall!

J. Marston · 29-04-2019 03:00PM

Still think there will be a bloodbath of main characters. The Winterfell forces are severely depleted now, all ready for Cersei and the Golden Company to sweep in and finish them off.

Drogon is still the ace in the pack though.

GSPfan · 29-04-2019 03:00PM

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Same difference though. People were never going to be happy whether it was zero, one or all.

How about half then? You are still representing extremes as the only option.

Have you seen the last few episodes of Spartacus? Couldn’t have been more perfect with the level of death v survival. It can be done.

earthwormjack · 29-04-2019 03:01PM

I'm a little torn on the episode meself. Some great tense scenes, some kinda silly ones and some great flashy stuff. I will echo the "too dark" at the start complaints too, found it hard to follow some scenes.

I'm not as engaged as I was a couple of seasons back. But still, it's good tv and I'm looking forward to next week.

fash · 29-04-2019 03:03PM

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Same difference though. People were never going to be happy whether it was zero, one or all.

Sure they would. Somewhere in between is what the logic and rules of early GOT would predict.
And some people would be happy with anything they are given- so why choose the crappy option.
The entire thing has been sliding into fan fiction since it went off the books - understandable in some way given the massive budgets and risks now in play but disappointing.

GottaGetGatt · 29-04-2019 03:03PM

Ramin Djawadi’s score when the Night King walks up to Bran is Epic.

RickBlaine · 29-04-2019 03:06PM

leggo wrote: »

Re: the darkness.

They were fighting the NIGHT KING. Night is not known for its brightness. It was intentional, come on lads.

Helm's Deep was at night but I could still see everything.

Billy86 · 29-04-2019 03:12PM

LastLagoon wrote: »

Nah just people not impressed by the bad guys the show has built up for eight seasons by a character who has been a waste of space for quite a while (braavos /faceless men stuff was awful), and has had nothing to do with the NK plot. Game of thrones started out as gritty and ruthless , it’s a ****ing fan pleasing Marvel movie now

I agree about too much fan service etc, and really thought some major characters like Jamie, Tyrion, etc should have been killed to bring more impact. I even said it to the girlfriend after, that the sense of anxiety in other big battles just wasn't there as it didn't feel like anyone too significant was ever going to die.

There was no moment like just before Tywin showed up at Blackwater, or when Jon was being squeezed to death at the Battle of the Bastards. It was fun, but maybe a bit of a letdown for me because of that - if they killed soneone big early, or had been unexpectedly killing main characters more recently like they used to, I think it would have added a lot to it.

But the parts you just alluded to with Arya are why her jumping out of nowhere for me makes sense. I'm not so sure about the whole Azor Ahai mythology stuff and how she effects that, but they have literally been building her as someone who can disguise themselves as anyone, and who can go completely unnoticed as an assassin. It's what made Jaqen d'Hagar such a fecking badass character a few years back, and I think they did a really good job building it for years right in front of us, without more or less anyone even noticing.

pxdf9i5cmoavkz · 29-04-2019 03:12PM

Necro wrote: »

The lighting: FFS folks, they're fighting an army of the undead at night, in winter - it was deliberately filmed that way.

This is a ridiculous stance to take. TV episodes are created to tell a story and one of the ways this is done is through the visuals and when almost all of its viewers struggle to see something it can only be classed as a failure and not be excused away because its "night" and "in winter".

Dial Hard · 29-04-2019 03:13PM

markodaly wrote:

I would have thought that the children of the forest or Bran would have had more of a say in the final outcome but alas, nothing.

The CotF were wiped out defending the Raven's cave in "Hold the Door".

The Iron Giant · 29-04-2019 03:14PM

GSPfan wrote: »

How about half then? You are still representing extremes as the only option.

Have you seen the last few episodes of Spartacus? Couldn’t have been more perfect with the level of death v survival. It can be done.

No I don't watch that unfortunately.

My point isn't that there's a golden number. My point is that no matter how many they kill, people will be unhappy. It's an unsolvable problem and I think people just have to accept that.

dsmythy · 29-04-2019 03:16PM

I know we don't and shouldn't dictate to the producers what should happen but I was disappointed there wasn't even one confrontation between a wight version of a character and someone they cared for having to kill them. If they didn't have the character for it even Sansa vs Rickon would have done.

I didn't mind the dark. It drew me in to how the characters were feeling. There was confusion as to what was going on in the crush at the battle of the bastards and it really put you in that crush how it might feel.

Dont buy the night king as Targaryen. The white walkers were able to repel fire themselves too. Obviously among the first men there would have been leaders and passed on power can continue in the same hands for centuries in real life but it's a push that a first man powerful clan would eventually turn into the Targaryen.

The night king was made to kill men for the children of the forest. So they were still trying to do this until the end. Why they turned on the children I don't know though. Maybe they want the power all to themselves so killed their own creators. Real world example powers creating a fighting force to fight a proxy war who a decade later they end up fighting.

GSPfan · 29-04-2019 03:19PM

Imagine every scene you’ve ever seen in a helicopter and imagine not being able to hear a word anyone is saying because it is realistic not to hear anyone in a helicopter?

Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it.

I’m rewatching it now with brightness and contrast up to the maximum. I’m seeing more than before for sure but I’ve lost all black colouring to be replaced with a milkish grey.

Standman · 29-04-2019 03:19PM

I, too, know what plot armour and character arc mean.

MisterAnarchy · 29-04-2019 03:20PM

J. Marston wrote: »

Still think there will be a bloodbath of main characters. The Winterfell forces are severely depleted now, all ready for Cersei and the Golden Company to sweep in and finish them off.

Drogon is still the ace in the pack though.

And Rhaegal ,he is still alive.

fash · 29-04-2019 03:21PM

Billy86 wrote: »

But the parts you just alluded to with Arya are why her jumping out of nowhere for me makes sense. I'm not so sure about the whole Azor Ahai mythology stuff and how she effects that, but they have literally been building her as someone who can disguise themselves as anyone, and who can go completely unnoticed as an assassin. It's what made Jaqen d'Hagar such a fecking badass character a few years back, and I think they did a really good job building it for years right in front of us, without more or less anyone even noticing.

I'm fine with that - my quibble on that part of the story is that they clearly retcon the Melisandre season 3 speech to "she knew all the time that Arya was Azor Ahai!" Clearly she did not know in season 3 - since otherwise Shireen would never have been burnt at the stake for the other Azor Ahai, Stannis. Listening to the after the episode talk, it really seems like the only decided on Arya some time when they got around to thinking about season 8 - and have entirely run out of GRRM script. In a way that is quite terrifying...

29-04-2019 03:21PM

Meh.. didn't think the darkness was too bad..
Anyway.. shouting for Cersei for the rest of it..

Nody · 29-04-2019 03:21PM

Adalyn Kind Self-deception wrote: »

This is a ridiculous stance to take. TV episodes are created to tell a story and one of the ways this is done is through the visuals and when almost all of its viewers struggle to see something it can only be classed as a failure and not be excused away because its "night" and "in winter".

Not only that but let's play this one out; it's the middle of the night and a huge army is running towards me that have night vision but I can't see longer then I can piss. Do I?
a) Stand around in the dark and hope they will stop 2m away to let me know they are coming before killing me?
b) Light big ass fires between me and the enemy so I can see them approach and use my archers to thin them out?
c) Have big ass fires next to me as I know my enemy fears fire and I can fight seeing them and divide the enemy army?
d) Ensure fires are everywhere for me to push the enemy into as they lit up as a torch as they are dry as part of my battle tactic?
e) Do b to d and more

There is simply no reason for them NOT to have plenty of light on that battleground even if you want to play it out as "realistic" or what ever.

Hazys · 29-04-2019 03:23PM

6/10 episode for me, criticisms similar to others, but for me the biggest let down is the Night King's story after all that build up. We've been hearing "Winter is Coming" for 8 years, all the other back stabbings and political plays in the seven kingdoms seemed like petty beef compared to what was coming and it was all over with one knife to the belly and we didn't learn anything about it.

Seems like RR Martin was struggling with the story line that seemed so important, didn't have any ideas how to finish it or have it interact with all the other story lines so they just killed him off.

What was the point of Bran and his dynamic with the night king? he spent all those seasons north of the wall becoming The Three Eyed Raven, just to find out Jon was the rightful king seems like a complete waste. During the whole battle he was warging into ravens, was that all he was doing? the ravens did fcuk all in the battle? So many questions but i doubt they will be answered in the next 3 episodes as according to the preview of ep4, they are straight onto Cersei now. Very disappointing.

Billy86 · 29-04-2019 03:27PM

fash wrote: »

I'm fine with that - my quibble on that part of the story is that they clearly retcon the Melisandre season 3 speech to "she knew all the time that Arya was Azor Ahai!" Clearly she did not know in season 3 - since otherwise Shireen would never have been burnt at the stake for the other Azor Ahai, Stannis. Listening to the after the episode talk, it really seems like the only decided on Arya some time when they got around to thinking about season 8 - and have entirely run out of GRRM script. In a way that is quite terrifying...

Good point and I had forgotten that point re Stannis. While the show is still fun, those intricacies (and the dialogue) have definitely taken a huge hit without GRRMs material to work off of.

GSPfan · 29-04-2019 03:27PM

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

No I don't watch that unfortunately.

My point isn't that there's a golden number. My point is that no matter how many they kill, people will be unhappy. It's an unsolvable problem and I think people just have to accept that.

I’m alright with all of them living, I really am. I just didn’t like that they played it as a no win battle and got totally destroyed on the way to victory and all our mates are safe.

Let me give you an example of what would have been better without knowing what is in store in the next few episodes....

Jamie dying for Brianne or vice versa.
Podrick dying.
Greyworm dying.
Thormund dying.
Brann being killed somehow as a key to winning the battle.

I feel that could have been done and it would have left us with a lot of the main guys still in play but we’d have felt more like this battle took something from us.

Necro · 29-04-2019 03:28PM

Ok the naysayers are here in force. Whatevs. I'm out.

29-04-2019 03:28PM

The Targaryens weren't even thee prominent house in Valyria. When they escaped before the Doom, it was viewed as them running away.

I don't see any reason to believe they have anything to do with an event 8,000 years ago. It's far more plausible that along with all the other shlt they can do, they're fire-retardant.

[This isn't even book spoilers, just old lore. I think it's from an extra history book written by GRRM that Alt Shift X covered on YT. Not spoilery.]

sabat · 29-04-2019 03:28PM

They should have hired Sam Raimi to direct this episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGHL6ejOskI

fash · 29-04-2019 03:29PM

Hazys wrote: »

6/10 episode for me, criticisms similar to others, but for me the biggest let down is the Night King's story after all that build up. We've been hearing "Winter is Coming" for 8 years, all the other back stabbings and political plays in the seven kingdoms seemed like petty beef compared to what was coming and it was all over with one knife to the belly and we didn't learn anything about it.

Seems like RR Martin was struggling with the story line that seemed so important, didn't have any ideas how to finish it or have it interact with all the other story lines so they just killed him off.

What was the point of Bran and his dynamic with the night king? he spent all those seasons north of the wall becoming The Three Eyed Raven, just to find out Jon was the rightful king seems like a complete waste. During the whole battle he was warging into ravens, was that it? the ravens did fcuk all in the battle? So many questions but i doubt they will be answered in the next 3 episodes as according to the preview, they are straight onto Cersei now. Very disappointing.

Agreed, a post I made earlier didn't get through for some reason- the night king story should have been even bigger- it's over 8000 years of history, resulted in the building of a gigantic mountain range sized wall of ice and installation of an 8000 year army to man that wall.
His story end was little more than if when he and his army approached the wall, he slipped on some ice and broke his neck. Properly, the night king battle should have happened over 2 episodes with a cliff hanger - possibly with some psychic plane fight between Bran and the Night king.

peddlelies · 29-04-2019 03:30PM

Felt it was fairly underwhelming, it started off great. As time went on I don't feel like it properly portrayed the supposed huge scope of the dead army, and the majority of the battle shots inside Winterfell itself just continuously panned to a handful of main characters somehow surviving the onslaught, which in turn made them look a bit farcical. When the dead were cut off by the circle of fire around the walls the dragons could have cleaned up house. The shot of Jon Snow shouting at the ice dragon looked a bit comical, as if he jumped up and started shaking his arms about like he was a child throwing a strop.

Biggest disappointment for me was the night King death. Maybe it's just me, but I felt after 8 years of buildup he would have been far more intimidating and powerful. A showdown with Jon Snow would have been great. It's kind of like if you played a video game for hours, got to the final boss and he died in one shot. The Bran angle always felt fairly meh to me.

29-04-2019 03:30PM

I thought Martin had agreed the outline of the story with them since they went off book though..you'd think they'd have decided on who killed yer man, and how..
If we're supposed to believe that she was wearing a dead persons face..that's fairly weak..I'd nearly prefer if she jumped 200 yards from the castle tbh..

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

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