Two-thirds of people say Ireland is too politically correct

freshpopcorn · 29-04-2019 02:49PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If inviting him to air his views on one of the most watched shows n the country is shouting him down, then I don't know what to tell you.

They had him on to air his view to the nation and they had on other people who disagree with him. Sounds about right to me.

Like you said, he did well out of it so he was hardly silenced. He was given a massive national platform but you don't seem happy with that because they also had people who disagreed with him.

I never had any issues with people disagreeing with him.
It was just the generally attitude by people in the media.
I could never see Ryan threating a traveller the same way he threated Peter Casey in an interview. That's just my take on it.

meeeeh · 29-04-2019 02:51PM

sk8erboii wrote: »

Ah yes. So you want to be able to say racial slurs without consequences.

Thats really all it is.

No I want to have the right to tell you that only a donkey would come to that conclusion. I might be insulting to donkeys though.

suicide_circus · 29-04-2019 02:55PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The same reasons they pander to old people and largely ignore young people. They have to pander to voters.

Yer man had a pop at travellers to get votes and he wasn't arrested. He wasn't silenced. He won some voters and lost others.

He was allowed to say it and people were allowed to agree or disagree with him. I dont see the problem you're describing

but they dont pander to the voters on these topics. they pander to a small cabal in the media lest they get pilloried. look at Casey. this was the first whiff of someone sticking their head above the parapet and he got 23% of the vote out of nowhere with zero media support.

suicide_circus · 29-04-2019 02:57PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Like I said above, If you cant find criticism of travellers then I don't think you're looking very hard. See Peter Casey who was so silenced that he was brought on the LL show to discuss his opinion.

ah come off it. he was brought on the LL show to be ambushed.

Thrashssacre · 29-04-2019 02:59PM

storker wrote: »

Maybe try actually reading the thread before trying to summarise it?

That would involve him engaging in an actual discussion instead of just trolling and trying to bait people into a back and forth of insults.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-04-2019 03:04PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

but they dont pander to the voters on these topics. they pander to a small cabal in the media lest they get pilloried. look at Casey. this was the first whiff of someone sticking their head above the parapet and he got 23% of the vote out of nowhere with zero media support.

So who/what is the problem?

Is it the media? The media who so publicised Casey's message that he got 23% of the vote? Sounds to me that they did him a massive favour.

Politicians pander to the voters on all issues specifically old people. They say what people want to hear. Social media means they can bypass the Irish times and RTE and still reach the people who use those media. If you're concerned that the public don't agree with those views then that's not really a PC problem.

sk8erboii · 29-04-2019 03:04PM

Thrashssacre wrote: »

That would involve him engaging in an actual discussion instead of just trolling and trying to bait people into a back and forth of insults.

Lol mate thats pretty paranoid.

Why do people in this thread think someones out to get them?

Bizarre behavior: PC brigade out to get you. Homosexuals, immigrants, travellers, illuminati, george soros. Theyre all out here to get you

Its weird. The bang off mental illness in this thread is strong

Thrashssacre · 29-04-2019 03:06PM

sk8erboii wrote: »

Lol mate thats pretty paranoid.

Why do people in this thread think someones out to get them?

Bizarre behavior: PC brigade out to get you. Homosexuals, immigrants, travellers, illuminati, george soros. Theyre all out here to get you

Its weird. The bang off mental illness in this thread is strong

Thanks for proving my point mate.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-04-2019 03:07PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

ah come off it. he was brought on the LL show to be ambushed.

The Late Late show. One of the most popular shows in the country. Particularly watched by old people who vote more reliable. This is not an example of him being shouted down. This is RTE giving him a platform he would never otherwise have. He might play the victim if he wants but I'm sure he was delighted with the whole thing.

suicide_circus · 29-04-2019 03:10PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So who/what is the problem?

Is it the media? The media who so publicised Casey's message that he got 23% of the vote? Sounds to me that they did him a massive favour.

Politicians pander to the voters on all issues specifically old people. They say what people want to hear. Social media means they can bypass the Irish times and RTE and still reach the people who use those media. If you're concerned that the public don't agree with those views then that's not really a PC problem.

if you dont see the problem, fair enough. most of the people who responded to the poll as well as to this thread do see a problem. i will grant you that it is not a clearly quantifiable problem - i can produce no solid figures - rather it is something in the ether, in the zeitgeist .

suicide_circus · 29-04-2019 03:12PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The Late Late show. One of the most popular shows in the country. Particularly watched by old people who vote more reliable. This is not an example of him being shouted down. This is RTE giving him a platform he would never otherwise have. He might play the victim if he wants but I'm sure he was delighted with the whole thing.

did you see it? if you didnt think that was an ambush then you dont know an ambush when you see one. It was Tubbs at his most machiavellian - subtle as a brick.

meeeeh · 29-04-2019 03:13PM

Trump, Casey or anyone else who manages controversial remark have no problem getting into media. The problem is how then every commentator, all the coverage is how nobody should support them and anyone who would vote them is a bigot. People then don't voice their opinion but at the time of election every one is shocked when the result is not what was expected.

I still remember giggles in media how easily Hillary will win because nobody would vote for Trump. And yet people just didn't want to tell that they are voting for him in fear of being ostracized.

29-04-2019 03:19PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

People want to discuss things such as
What will happen if a halting site is located on my road?
Will criminality increase?
How will it affect my children's lives?
Should a local community have a right to say they don't want a direct provession centre in their town because they question how the schools, doctors,etc will cope?
Or how Ireland struggles to to house people or for the health service to care for them without bringing more people into the country.
People feel they can't discuss these topics or similar without somebody getting on their high horse.

Nobody is stopping a factual evidence-based discussion, but its often not about the facts its how about how they feel/prejudice not the facts.

Seathrun66 · 29-04-2019 03:29PM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

One group (" alt right" etc) is relatively tiny with zero mainstream media support, the other( secular progressives - SJW, s) is considerably bigger with enormous mainstream media backing

There are enough angry frustrated underachieving men on this planet to swell the ranks of the reactionary right. As is evidenced by this thread.

Thosee of us who don't want to insult people owing to their race or sexual orientation will remain the the majority. And the simple reason is that most people are fundamentally decent.

freshpopcorn · 29-04-2019 03:30PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Nobody is stopping a factual evidence-based discussion, but its often not about the facts its how about how they feel/prejudice not the facts.

Well look at the percentage of the travelling population in prison compared to the settled population.
Also people living in an area where a centre was planned may have concerns about moving a large population of people into their area with not much planning especially if they feel the area is under resourced.
During the marriage and repeal referendums we heard facts but we also heard lots of stories about for people felt.

Seathrun66 · 29-04-2019 03:32PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

He was invited on The Late Late Show and Ryan had a bunch of Travelles to shout and give out to him in the audience.
I doubt he'd do this to a guest who was a traveller.
That's what my main point is.
Shur lots of people agreed with Peter. He did well enough in certain areas.

They didn't shout at him. They had their chance to speak as he had. And his sheer political and intellectual inadequacy was laid bare. He didn't need any help to show himself up.

freshpopcorn · 29-04-2019 03:36PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

They didn't shout at him. They had their chance to speak as he had. And his sheer political and intellectual inadequacy was laid bare. He didn't need any help to show himself up.

One of him and about six travellers in the audience. It wasn't a tad balanced and RTE wouldn't have done it to a traveller.
He went from about 1% of support to over 20% in a few weeks. He didn't show himself up really.

meeeeh · 29-04-2019 03:38PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

There are enough angry frustrated underachieving men on this planet to swell the ranks of the reactionary right.

Thise of us who don't want to insult people owing to their race or sexual orientation will remain the the majority. And the simple is that most people are fundamentally decent.

Yes and those frustrated underachieving men were going to be the only Trump voters. And yet majority of white women voted for Trump. You can dismiss them as underachieving frustrated women to join their underachieving frustrated men but then they won't tell you who they are voting and why they are voting the way they are voting.

Ulysses Gaze · 29-04-2019 03:40PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes and those frustrated underachieving men were going to be the only Trump voters. And yet majority of white women voted for Trump. You can dismiss them as underachieving frustrated men but then they won't tell you who they are voting and why they are voting the way they are voting.

There are a large number of young men that vote for Trump simply to "Own the Libs" and laugh at "SJW Meltdown" videos on Youtube.

He attracts a lot of trolls.

meeeeh · 29-04-2019 03:43PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

There are a large number of young men that vote for Trump simply to "Own the Libs" and laugh at "SJW Meltdown" videos on Youtube.

He attracts a lot of trolls.

Again Trump won among white women. He didn't win because he attracted young men who voted for him to own the libs. He won because he attracted people who voted for Obama in previous election and Clinton didn't, at least not enough of them.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-04-2019 03:52PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

if you dont see the problem, fair enough. most of the people who responded to the poll as well as to this thread do see a problem. i will grant you that it is not a clearly quantifiable problem - i can produce no solid figures - rather it is something in the ether, in the zeitgeist .

It's clearly not quantifiable but you're a long way from quantifying it. You could start by describing it and work up from there. You used an example that is net really true. to paraphrase "you cant criticise travellers". Peter casey demonstrated that you can criticise travellers, the media will publicise your message and you can do very well.

Every media carried his message. Far from being silenced or 'no platformed' he was given loads of airtime. Like, loads and loads and loads of airtime.

It sounds like something you feel rather than something that's actually happening. in the ether indeed. In the 'feels' might be more apt.

Seathrun66 · 29-04-2019 03:55PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

One of him and about six travellers in the audience. It wasn't a tad balanced and RTE wouldn't have done it to a traveller.
He went from about 1% of support to over 20% in a few weeks. He didn't show himself up really.

He got the same amount of speaking time as all of those who opposed him. The audience were pretty respectful.

And his polling improved simply because fools will always attract fools.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-04-2019 03:59PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Well look at the percentage of the travelling population in prison compared to the settled population.
Also people living in an area where a centre was planned may have concerns about moving a large population of people into their area with not much planning especially if they feel the area is under resourced.
During the marriage and repeal referendums we heard facts but we also heard lots of stories about for people felt.

The percentage of travellers in prison shows 2 things:
1 travellers are involved in crime at a higher rate than average.
2 travellers are convicted and sentenced to prison at a higher rate than the aver age person. Seems about right to me. Lets see if anyone comes along to "silence" me or "shout me down" for my statement.

The solution to crime will be preventative and I have a sneaking suspicion that the same people who think PC is gone mad will also not be in favour of measures that reduce the crime rate unless its locking people up for longer - there's another thread about this and the majority of posters there have no interest in discussing the causes of crime and addressing them. The only want to increase punishment for crime. Likewise, I suspect they would have no interest in doing things that would reduce traveller (or anyone else's) criminality rates. Just criticise them and punish them after they commit crimes.

Seathrun66 · 29-04-2019 04:00PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes and those frustrated underachieving men were going to be the only Trump voters. And yet majority of white women voted for Trump. You can dismiss them as underachieving frustrated women to join their underachieving frustrated men but then they won't tell you who they are voting and why they are voting the way they are voting.

47% of white women. Not a majority.

Plumbthedepths · 29-04-2019 04:03PM

Seathrun66 wrote:

He got the same amount of speaking time as all of those who opposed him. The audience were pretty respectful.

What programme were you watching? Allowing audience members ambush a guest roar and about is not respectful by any stretch if the imagination.

meeeeh · 29-04-2019 04:05PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

47% of white women. Not a majority.

But more than for Clinton in any case. We can argue the semantics but my point was Trump won demographic that he was not supposed to win because no woman was supposed to vote for him.

Btw I will give another example why I find political correctness so faje. I'm not Irish and come from former communist country. OH loves to call me commie and make jokes about bloody commies. It entertains me immensely how horrified people are about his comments. Of course if they bothered to ask me they would know I find them funny and I am not one bit insulted. But they don't they just assume I should be insulted. One person bothered to get to know me and knows my sense of humour the others assume they should be horrified for poor me. Who do you think considers me as equal?

Seathrun66 · 29-04-2019 04:10PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

What programme were you watching? Allowing audience members ambush a guest roar and about is not respectful by any stretch if the imagination.

To allow a presidental candidate onto the Late Late after expressing his views without recourse to a counterpoint would have been neglectful of RTE. He wasn't ambushed. He was just presented with people who disagreed with him. The media gave him several platforms. He consistently embarrassed himself.

Mad_maxx · 29-04-2019 04:27PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Like I said above, If you cant find criticism of travellers then I don't think you're looking very hard. See Peter Casey who was so silenced that he was brought on the LL show to discuss his opinion.

Aren't you free to 'nail' the gender wage gap or criticise the feral delinquents?

I meant these issues are not discussed in the mainstream media, not boards.ie, the exclusive narative re_travellers on rte or the Irish Times is how they are "marginalised and Oppressed by the state"
Another taboo subject is the effect immigration is having on housing demand

Mad_maxx · 29-04-2019 04:29PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So who/what is the problem?

Is it the media? The media who so publicised Casey's message that he got 23% of the vote? Sounds to me that they did him a massive favour.

Politicians pander to the voters on all issues specifically old people. They say what people want to hear. Social media means they can bypass the Irish times and RTE and still reach the people who use those media. If you're concerned that the public don't agree with those views then that's not really a PC problem.

The media publicised his message by accident in terms of the result, they queed up to put the boot into him and labelled him a racist, the big surge in support was a side effect

Mad_maxx · 29-04-2019 04:32PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

There are enough angry frustrated underachieving men on this planet to swell the ranks of the reactionary right. As is evidenced by this thread.

Thosee of us who don't want to insult people owing to their race or sexual orientation will remain the the majority. And the simple reason is that most people are fundamentally decent.

Conjecture much

Two-thirds of people say Ireland is too politically correct

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