Two-thirds of people say Ireland is too politically correct

DelaneyIn

Could we be seeing the first straws in the wind of a backlash against a more progressive Ireland? Not everyone in Ireland seems equally welcoming of recent societal and cultural developments, suggests research published today by Behaviour & Attitudes.


Fifty four per cent of 1,000 adults surveyed agreed that they felt pride in the result of the marriage equality referendum; but 46 per cent felt “neutral” or had “no pride” in it. By contrast, 62 per cent of voters voted in favour of the marriage equality referendum in 2015.


Forty seven per cent agreed with the statement that we are “losing Irish identity in face of foreign national influx”. Sixty one per cent of people agreed “everything is changing too quickly”. Forty five per cent of men felt “the #metoo movement had gone too far,” along with 38 per cent of women. And 69 per cent agreed with the statement that “society is too politically correct”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/two-thirds-of-people-say-ireland-is-too-politically-correct-1.3871647

This is what happens when you try to control thought and language. People will push back. It happens the world over its helped in a small way to the rise of populist right wing politicians.


Even here in the last presidential election yer man Peter casey mentions something about travellers and people love him for it. Because genuine criticism of travellers (or any protected group) is taboo and shamed. People see that and gravitate towards those people.


When everything is racist and sexist those words lose all meaning and people stop giving a damn.

Your Face

The push-back has already started and will continue to grow in momentum.
When the government wont engage with people, the people will look for representatives who will.

judeboy101

We were warned about this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

Yer Da sells Avon

Two thirds of people are fucking idiots.

(sorry if that's not politically correct)

Your Face

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Two thirds of people are fucking idiots.

(sorry if that's not politically correct)

Thanks for your input, Minister.

DelaneyIn

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Two thirds of people are fucking idiots.

(sorry if that's not politically correct)

But not you, of course.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Two thirds of people are fucking idiots.

(sorry if that's not politically correct)

Fortunately your opinion doesn’t matter.

Yer Da sells Avon

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Fortunately your opinion doesn’t matter.

If it didn't matter, you wouldn't have responded to it. It matters enormously.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Two thirds of people are fucking idiots.

(sorry if that's not politically correct)

They probably are, but it's more of a coincidence than anything else.

kneemos

Changing too quickly? Catching up with the twentieth century more like.

Your Face

kneemos wrote: »

Changing too quickly? Catching up with the twentieth century more like.

The 1900s?
We're not that bad.

suicide_circus

are you happy with the ssm and abortion referenda results?

do you think ireland is too politically correct?

these are 2 completely different and unrelated issues.

you could answer yes to both

Elmer Jones

The entire world is too politically correct.

Political correctness is a just another means of trying to control how people think and I think the public are clever enough to realise that.

Jimbob1977

In many ways, thoughtcrime already exists

Mad_maxx

Your Face wrote: »

The push-back has already started and will continue to grow in momentum.
When the government wont engage with people, the people will look for representatives who will.

Political correctness in this country is not driven by the government but the government have bowed to the lobbying of media, academia and various activists

The media roasted Peter casey, not government

Arghus

I predict there will be a lot of dumb stuff posted in this thread.

kneemos

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Political correctness in this country is not driven by the government but the government have bowed to the lobbying of media, academia and various activists

The media roasted Peter casey, not government

Did they? The media will latch onto anything controversial.

The little I noticed about it was also asking similar questions to Casey.

Plumbthedepths

Mad_maxx wrote:

The media roasted Peter casey, not government

Didn't Leo suggest people should not vote for Casey?

Mad_maxx

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Didn't Leo suggest people should not vote for Casey?

Leo has an arrangement with the media, he backs their agenda and they provide him with soft coverage of the big stuff

uck51js9zml2yt

Political correctness is nothing but disliking something that goes against what you believe. It's nonsense.

Your Face

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Political correctness in this country is not driven by the government but the government have bowed to the lobbying of media, academia and various activists

The media roasted Peter casey, not government

Maybe, maybe not. My point is that the people think their concerns are not being addressed by the government.
They are being ignored, so they look to the likes of Casey and whomever.

On Casey, it was a dynamic of that campaign, that members of government roasted him as they were towing the party PC line as did their media mouthpieces.

sdanseo

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Two thirds of people are fucking idiots.

(sorry if that's not politically correct)

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Fortunately your opinion doesn’t matter.

I might not agree with the comment, but vilifying the posters opinion without any form of argument to the contrary goes against the whole point of a debate and shouldn't be allowed here.

Political correctness is a disease, it makes many important opinions taboo because they are intolerable to a significant minority. Electioneering is ironically all about converting multiple labelled minorities into voting blocks, collect enough of them and you pass the number needed to win a seat.

Of course we shouldn't go the American route and allow freedom of all speech without any restriction.

For example, incitement to hatred for example is a crime and should be so. You can point our realities, or have hard discussions however, without inciting hatred.

kneemos

Your Face wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not. My point is that the people think their concerns are not being addressed by the government.
They are being ignored, so they look to the likes of Casey and whomever.

On Casey, it was a dynamic of that campaign, that members of government roasted him as they were towing the party PC line as did their media mouthpieces.

Personally I'd be glad our Government didn't ostracise any group in society.

Particularly when it's a cynical vote catching gimmick.

jay1988

Arghus wrote: »

I predict there will be a lot of dumb stuff posted in this thread.

This post being the start of it obviously.

riffmongous

Is the full survey online anywhere? It would be interesting to see the age breakdown

kneemos

riffmongous wrote: »

Is the full survey online anywhere? It would be interesting to see the age breakdown

My first thought too. Presumably it was a mix.

McDave

I think PC overreached long ago. It was one of the reasons Clinton fell to Trump. Many in the liberal spectrum there are questioning why this has happened. Some are fingering the take over of identity politics.

PC here is a decade or so behind US and UK peaks. But is no less sanctimonious for it. For me, the high water mark was Colm O’Gorman’s claim on the radio that the gay marriage referendum was in fact about the whole liberal agenda. Tin ear permissive liberals have been giving it socks ever since. For instance:

1. An early low profile overreach was Enda Kenny’s ‘recognition’ of Travellers as an ethnic group, without any evidentiary basis whatsoever.

2. While I enthusiastically supported ‘repeal the eighth’, I felt the heart repeal logo was an affront. After all abortion is an unfortunate, messy business. It shouldn’t have been ‘marketed’ like a Valentine’s day box of chocolates. But the Repeal campaign used that heart logo extensively without it seems giving it a moment’s thought.

3. The horrified but confident reaction of the water cooler ‘liberal’ media to the vote for Casey was an indication of how much in control of social debate the liberati thought they were. I think this is where the backlash, which one of the IT correspondents mentioned today, actually had a chance to crystallise.

4. A couple of weeks back the SB Post had an interesting feature on immigrants in Ireland, lauding the extent to which integration takes place here. But without giving a moments thought to what the public reaction might be to the high proportions of, say, Muslim immigration experienced in some other European countries, and the serious problems arising from it.

What is most striking for me is not just the emergence of these issues in national debate, but the shrill, censorious attitude of many of those promoting ‘liberal’ solutions, with characterisations of ‘racist’, ‘sexist’, ‘homophobe’, ‘nationalist’, ‘anti-semite’, etc. being readily thrown at anyone demurring from the hardline ideological standpoints emerging as the new liberal ‘consensus’ of a metropolitan, multicultural Ireland, pioneered by new leftist, ‘liberal’, and feminist clergies.

The IT has unexpectedly struck a raw nerve. I think a backlash is indeed in the offing.

klaaaz

McDave wrote: »

The IT has unexpectedly struck a raw nerve. I think a backlash is indeed in the offing.

Where is the backlash coming from, a non-existent far-right party? Perhaps Gemma O'D? No present political party in the Dail supports your views.

McDave

klaaaz wrote: »

Where is the backlash coming from, a non-existent far-right party? Perhaps Gemma O'D? No present political party in the Dail supports your views.

Oh, you know you probably won’t see it coming.

A bit like the Casey result. And the 69% IT poll figure itself.

I’m guessing inividualistic permissive liberalism will be its own undoing.

klaaaz

McDave wrote: »

Oh, you know you probably won’t see it coming.

A bit like the Casey result. And the 69% IT poll figure itself.

I’m guessing inividualistic permissive liberalism will be its own undoing.

"inividualistic permissive liberalism ", that has nothing to do with travellers, muslims or immigrants who themselves may not all be of the "liberal mind"!

Well then, the 69% IT figure is hypocritical as the vast majority of the electorate have voted against the populist ideas you listed. Unless Casey or Gemma forms something of a movement, who else is there?

Squatter

Arghus wrote: »

I predict there will be a lot of dumb stuff posted in this thread.

Fair dues to you for getting the ball rolling - took guts!

Chris_Heilong

Ireland is way too politically correct but we are still better some countries that have adopted cultural marxism as their national ideology. We are very laid back still and that is our strength. We dont have our police knocking on peoples doors to check their 'thinking' and we dont have the crap about 'insert any Irish company/service" as being too white.

ogsjw

'Political Correctness' can really mean any number of things, which is problematic. And mostly it's used as an insult, when it's refering to simply progressive ideas, which is also problematic.

Actual 'progressiveness' is also just a course-correction. The more people 'push back' against that course correction, the longer it will take. But it will have its way. 'Equality for everyone' is just too good an argument.

looksee

Could we have a definition of politically correct please. Just so we all know what we are talking about?

ogsjw

looksee wrote: »

Could we have a definition of politically correct please. Just so we all know what we are talking about?

When we look back on this thread, this will be the point where the thread shot fanwards without a paddle and turned into a 40 page banfest. :P

freshpopcorn

I think Twitter/etc can be very Political Correct.
Some work places are very political correct and I'd say they'd be a nightmare to work for. Some work places tough aren't political correct. Well they may appear to be but the owners would never hire a politically correct person.
Regarding your friends/family. It all depends on who you mix with. I know some people and they'd be very politically correct and there family tip toe around conversations with them so they don't offend the person or cause an argument.

vetinari

As someone else mentioned, there isn't even agreement on how Ireland is too politically correct.
Examples usually boil down to people being upset that they can't say whatever they want about another ethnic group, women, foreigners etc.
It's not like these people are being thrown in prison, someone tells them off for what they're saying and they run away shouting about political correctness.

ogsjw

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I think Twitter/etc can be very Political Correct.

???????????????????????????????????????

Twitter is an alt-right/Trump fan haven, and Jack Dorsey is heavily, heavily criticized for allowing it.

Companies like Disney have considered buying it but backed out because it's such a wretched hive of scumbags.

freshpopcorn

ogsjw wrote: »

???????????????????????????????????????

Twitter is an alt-right/Trump fan haven, and Jack Dorsey is heavily, heavily criticized for allowing it.

Companies like Disney have considered buying it but backed out because it's such a wretched hive of scumbags.

I don't use it much now.
When I was on it all I saw was I want a halting site in my area, Peter Casey is thw worst, etc.

Seathrun66

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Ireland is way too politically correct but we are still better some countries that have adopted cultural marxism as their national ideology. We are very laid back still and that is our strength. We dont have our police knocking on peoples doors to check their 'thinking' and we dont have the crap about 'insert any Irish company/service" as being too white.

Examples please of such countries where the cops monitor your thinking. Or you been reading Philip K Dick again?

ogsjw

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I don't use it much now.
When I was on it all I saw was I want a halting site in my area, Peter Casey is thw worst, etc.

If we are ever going to get past the last five years of tearing chunks at each other, we are going to have to start studying Social Contract Theory. It is an argument as old as human philosophy itself. Some groups legitimately infringe on others and that must be stopped if we are ever going to progress as a society.

There are two large 'career homeless' demographics that negatively affect Ireland and yes, we need them to respect the society we have built. Otherwise all we're ever going to do is go round and around pointing fingers at each other.

But equal rights for everyone, irrespective of skin colour, religion, orientation or gender is a different argument altogether. But both kinds of arguments get tarred as being 'PC'.

That is the problem. And actually I think it affects people tarred as bigots more than anything. An honest discussion about Social Contract theory is a much needed first step with regards for what you're specifically referring to.

Yer Da sells Avon

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Two thirds of people are fucking idiots.

(sorry if that's not politically correct)

And we await with abated breath as to what im sure is going to be a detailed explanation from you as to why they are idiots :rolleyes:

Chris_Heilong

It is not just about controlling speech, it is also about censoring images, ideas or anything that might upset some tiny minority, society should be about the majority and what most people want and not what a tiny minority demand. People are all ready equal under the law and people are not held back because of their sex/skin colour so we are equal enough already.

Seathrun66

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Examples please of such countries where the cops monitor your thinking. Or you been reading Philip K Dick again?

Police have been known to warn people over certain tweets in the UK. And thats only 3 examples. The guy who taught the dog to do a nazi salute was facing jail.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/24/man-investigated-police-retweeting-transgender-limerick/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6249719/Father-Ted-creator-receives-police-warning-using-transgender-activists-birth-Twitter.html

https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2018/04/25/uk-police-warn-citizens-tweets-regarding-alfie-evans-monitored-acted-upon/

klaaaz

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It is not just about controlling speech, it is also about censoring images, ideas or anything that might upset some tiny minority, society should be about the majority and what most people want and not what a tiny minority demand. People are all ready equal under the law and people are not held back because of their sex/skin colour so we are equal enough already.

What images could they be? Society is about including everyone for the better of all.

Eh, there is nothing that can be done about being discriminated at the interview stage of a job. No equality under the law stuff applies there. Of course once a person is actually employed, there is protection from discrimination.

Seathrun66

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

It is not just about controlling speech, it is also about censoring images, ideas or anything that might upset some tiny minority, society should be about the majority and what most people want and not what a tiny minority demand. People are all ready equal under the law and people are not held back because of their sex/skin colour so we are equal enough already.

The speech and imagery that is controlled (justifiably in my opinion) in most EU countries is that inciting hatred towards any groups that could result in violence.

I'm happy to subscribe to that and happy to let my elected politicians take care of it. They demur from enforcing that protection and we can vote them out.

biko

A student at my university said he needed a safe space.


So I locked him in the boot of my car for an hour...

Seathrun66

Deleted User wrote: »

Police have been known to warn people over certain tweets in the UK.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/24/man-investigated-police-retweeting-transgender-limerick/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6249719/Father-Ted-creator-receives-police-warning-using-transgender-activists-birth-Twitter.html

https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2018/04/25/uk-police-warn-citizens-tweets-regarding-alfie-evans-monitored-acted-upon/

That's not 'checking people's thinking' as the poster said. That's cautioning or arresting people for breach of Public Order legislation.

Lord Glentoran

You can’t call people brainless, racist fcukers anymore without them taking offence.

Schitflakes the lot of them.

Seathrun66

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

You can’t call people brainless, racist fcukers anymore without them taking offence.

Schitflakes the lot of them.

Not a fan of Churchill but his quote about free speech fits in with today's right-wing reactionary toadies:

Some people’s idea of free speech is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone says anything back, that is an outrage.

biko

Seathrun66 wrote: »

That's not 'checking people's thinking' as the poster said. That's cautioning or arresting people for breach of Public Order legislation.

I think you will find there is no law about calling a transgender person by their initial gender name.
Do you wish such legislation existed?