Sunday opening hours - Pubs, Hotels

Hotels can serve guests 24/7, but the law is loosely applied. No cop is gonna ask people at 11.45 on a Sunday morning if they're guests.

Same principle with pubs refusing to serve after 11.30pm. Most will push it a bit.

It used to be the case that if there was no 12 o'clock mass in the parish, the local pubs could apply for permission to open at 12, otherwise Sunday opening was 12:30.

That rule gave rise to an interesting situation in Lanesborough in Co. Longford, the town at the northern tip of Lough Ree. Most of the town is on the Leinster side of the bridge and the church in the town did not have a mass at 12 on Sundays so the pubs were allowed to open at 12. Just across the bridge on the Connaught side, however, the pubs could not open until 12:30 and the reason was that they were in a different parish and even though their church was a couple of miles out the road, that church did have a mass at 12 so those pubs couldn't open until 12:30, by which time all of the drinking churchgoers were well settled in to the pubs on the Leinster side of the river which were open since 12.

BeerNut wrote: »

Dubious. Under what law? AFAIK, the current 12.30 Sunday opening, along with St Patrick's Day opening and the holy hour, were introduced in the 1960 Act.

Don't know which law but I remember a court case way back (maybe the 1970s) when a publican on the Connaught side of the river applied to the local District Court to be allowed open at 12. His solicitor pleaded on the basis that the pubs just across the river opened at 12, were getting all the business and his client was missing out on the Sunday morning trade.

The judge said his hands were tied. The man's pub was in a parish where there was a 12 mass on Sunday so the application was denied.

BeerNut wrote: »

Sounds like the rule connecting pub opening to Mass times has been invented to embellish to a story about a publican complaining in court that pubs in a neighbouring district are illegally opening at 12 on a Sunday so he should be allowed to as well.

Wrong

BeerNut wrote: »

Barroom lawyers are worth every penny of their fees Local court or Garda practice, maybe, but not actual law.

Wrong again.

If a majority of the local publicans supported it and the extended period of opening (from 12 noon to 12:30 p.m.) did not overlap the local 'divine service', a District Justice could grant a permanent exemption from the provisions relating to prohibited hours from 12 noon to 12:30 p.m.

Intoxicating Liquor Act 1962........

16.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, where, on application to a Justice of the District Court by the holder of a licence (not being a six-day licence) in respect of premises situate in any locality not in a county or other borough, it is shown to the satisfaction of the Court that the application has the approval of a majority of the holders of such licences in respect of premises so situate, the Court may, if it is satisfied that, owing to circumstances in the locality, it is desirable to do so, make an order exempting the holders of all such licences in respect of premises so situate from the provisions of the Licensing Acts relating to prohibited hours in respect of those premises for the period between the hours of twelve o'clock and half-past twelve o'clock in the afternoon on Sundays and Saint Patrick's Day.

(2) The District Court shall not make an order under this section in respect of a period during which or part of which a considerable number of people in the locality to which the order would relate would be likely to be attending Divine Service.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1962/en/act/pub/0021/print.html#sec16

L1011 wrote: »

The late 50s to mid 60s had multiple tweaks and many more proposed in the Dail to the opening hours mainly pushing tourism as the angle to extend and road deaths to limit.

+1 where a town didn't have an established annual festival (think Ballinasloe & Killorglin), one was invented purely so that the publicans could apply for a general exemption for the whole town for a week of late night drinking in the summer. Which attracted every alcoholic and his car from a radius of 30 miles around. With the attendant carnage on the roads after the pubs closed.

The infamous 'holy hour' isn't even 20 years gone.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/calling-time-on-the-holy-hour-26147389.html

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The infamous 'holy hour' isn't even 20 years gone.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/calling-time-on-the-holy-hour-26147389.html

In it's day, the 'holy hour' only referred to the hour (2:30 - 3:30 p.m.) in the afternoon when Dublin and Cork pubs had to close on weekdays, it was abolished in 1988.

That article you posted a link to refers to the abolition (in 1999) of Sunday afternoon closing (2-4 p.m.) which applied to the whole country. I can see several articles on the topic and they all refer to that period as the 'holy hour' but when it applied, I don't recall anyone referring to it by that name. I suspect that they used the term for want of a snappy headlne but as it was a two hour period, calling it the 'holy hour' made no sense.

coylemj wrote: »

They're not in the same category, you can't convert one to the other. If you register as a hotel (which does not involve a 'licence') with Failte Ireland, you can serve liquor to guests but to serve customers who walk in off the street, you need a publican's licence from the Revenue Commissioners.

I didn't say they're the same. I said is it not usual to buy an ordinary 7-day and convert. This allows the hotel to serve the public.

Looking at the register of licences, that certainly seems to be the case.

n97 mini wrote: »

I didn't say they're the same. I said is it not usual to buy an ordinary 7-day and convert. This allows the hotel to serve the public.

No it is not because (like I said) they are not in the same category so converting one to the other simply does not arise.

You build a hotel with a minimum of 10 bedrooms (15 in Dublin city and county), you apply to register it with Failte Ireland. They send out an inspector who certifies that you meet the requirements for floor space, leisure areas etc. so you get registered. Now you can open for business and serve liquor to guests.

You want to operate a public bar and serve walk-in customers? You need a publican's licence, a completely separate exercise where you deal with the local Garda Supt. and the Revenue Commissioners. Converting a pub licence to a hotel 'licence' (no such thing) simply does not arise - you might as well try to convert your NCT disc to a tax disc.

n97 mini wrote: »

Looking at the register of licences, that certainly seems to be the case.

Can you elaborate on this? Most hotels have a publican's licence, in addition to being registered as a hotel. Otherwise they couldn't operate a public bar and do functions like weddings and dinner dances, unless they confined themselves to small events where all the attendees were staying in the hotel. Clearly with the explosion in tourism, there are now plenty of hotels in the cities which offer accommodation only and do not operate a public bar so they do not have a publican's licence.

coylemj wrote: »

No it is not because (like I said) they are not in the same category so converting one to the other simply does not arise.

You build a hotel with a minimum of 10 bedrooms (15 in Dublin city and county), you apply to register it with Failte Ireland. They send out an inspector who certifies that you meet the requirements for floor space, leisure areas etc. so you get registered. Now you can open for business and serve liquor to guests.

^ Hotel residents licence.

coylemj wrote: »

You want to operate a public bar and serve walk-in customers? You need a publican's licence, a completely separate exercise where you deal with the local Garda Supt. and the Revenue Commissioners. Converting a pub licence to a hotel 'licence' (no such thing) simply does not arise - you might as well try to convert your NCT disc to a tax disc.

An order under section 19 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act, 1960 allows for the holders of licences granted under section 2(2) of the Licensing (Ireland) Act, 1902, to apply to the court to allow for a public bar on the premises. An application under section 19 requires the extinguishment of an ordinary seven day publican’s licence within the State.

However, an order under section 19 does not convert a ‘hotel licence’ in to an ordinary publican’s licence and the premises must still function as a hotel within the definition as outlined above with the requisite number of rooms.

^ Converted 7-day licence. Even though you bought a pub licence, you must run the business as a hotel.

n97 mini wrote: »

^ Hotel residents licence.

^ Converted 7-day licence. Even though you bought a pub licence, you must run the business as a hotel.

Can you supply a link to the source of that text in your third (last) quote box?

S.19 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 1960 does not deal with the 'conversion' of a 7-day publican's licence to a 'hotel licence'. It involves the owner of a hotel purchasing an existing 7-day licence and extinguishing it so that his hotel can be licensed as a public bar. You still need to maintain your registration as a hotel with Failte Ireland i.e. the pub licence does not confer you with a 'super' licence which incorporates the right to operate a hotel and a public bar.

I accept that the transfer may be approved by the court on condition that he continues to run the place as a hotel so I can see where you're coming from with the term 'hotel licence' but in your final quote box above, I note that the the author, when commentating on the legislation piece above it, takes care to put the term in quotes, suggesting that it is not an official (legal) term. What we're talking about here is a registered hotel which is licensed to run a public bar.

I assume that the condition that the place continues to be run as a hotel is there to stop an abuse of the system whereby someone uses a hotel as a Trojan Horse to open a new pub by the back door. Meaning that if he stops operating as a hotel, the Gardai can object to his next renewal on the basis of bad faith.