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Why has the quality of mainstream film and music taken a nosedive since the 70's?

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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Music travels through different mediums now. When I was a teenager my pocket money was spent on buying a single in the charts that I liked, you could also tape record the songs off the radio....

    If you followed a band you would hear on the grapevine when their next album was being released. You dressed up like them, it was a thing. All that crap still exists to some extent.

    Instead of going to my local record store now I just lash on youTube or soundcloud. Pump in your song and off you go dancing around the kitchen to B sides from a flock of seagulls which weren't even released in Ireland. It's great.

    It is just a different business model now, and yes different generations are entitled to enjoy different sounds, let them at it.


    " people try to put us dowwwwwnnnnnnnn "


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭Yermande


    The best super hero movie of all time was released in 2018, Avengers Infinity War which included the best villain of all time.

    It wasn't even the best superhero movie that year.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2 Gorilla Woods


    Yermande wrote: »
    It wasn't even the best superhero movie that year.

    Into the spider verse? Haven't seen it so you could be right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Yermande wrote: »
    If anyone has a problem with mainstream cinema then take a trip to your nearest independent theatre, or subscribe to MUBI or BFI, or Curzon Home Cinema.
    Have you used MUBI? I've been tempted for a while but haven't taken the plunge yet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    Woke Hogan wrote: »
    Star Wars came out in 1977 and the generations who grew up watching it never graduated to serious films for adults.

    ...and the Oscar for sweeping statement of the thread goes to.....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Rock music is completely dead in the main stream. Don't think anyone can argue that.

    Pop music is pop music. Perry and Swift get s**t on but their non commercial stuff is probably no worse than most of pop released in 70s.
    The best super hero movie of all time was released in 2018, Avengers Infinity War which included the best villain of all time.

    Superman 1 and 2, Dark Knight. I much prefer Stamps Zod and Ledgers Joker to Thanos too. Not a huge fan of the Avengers movies and will include Civil War in that. Just too many characters, too much going on and too little time to tell story.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭Yermande


    Into the spider verse? Haven't seen it so you could be right.

    Yeah it really is something special. Check it out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭Yermande


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Have you used MUBI? I've been tempted for a while but haven't taken the plunge yet.

    MUBI is excellent but it's heavily geared towards the art-house end of the spectrum. I thought I was into independent and world cinema until I started using it. Then I realised that my tastes were, comparatively at least, rather conventional.

    The best part is that each movie is only available for 30 days. The worst part? That each movie is only available for 30 days! Sometimes I struggle to stay on top of stuff I'd like to see.

    It's worth checking out though. I love how it's curated and that there are always mini-seasons of stuff running. Their current main season is on Luis Buñuel. The whole thing has a delightful hand-picked quality that's the polar opposite of the random onslaught of Netflix.

    There's a free 7 day trial.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Yermande wrote: »
    MUBI is excellent but it's heavily geared towards the art-house end of the spectrum. I thought I was into independent and world cinema until I started using it. Then I realised that my tastes were, comparatively at least, rather conventional.

    The best part is that each movie is only available for 30 days. The worst part? That each movie is only available for 30 days! Sometimes I struggle to stay on top of stuff I'd like to see.

    It's worth checking out though. I love how it's curated and that there are always mini-seasons of stuff running. Their current main season is on Luis Buñuel. The whole thing has a delightful hand-picked quality that's the polar opposite of the random onslaught of Netflix.

    There's a free 7 day trial.


    Cheers. I think I'll just have to take the plunge and try it sometime soon. There's a 30day trial with some podcasts like filmspotting, so not much risk.

    I think we'll see more of a swing-back towards curated entertainment in the future. Streaming services are becoming more and more diluted these days. The 30 limit actually appeals to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    The best super hero movie of all time was released in 2018, Avengers Infinity War which included the best villain of all time.

    The ultimate in CGI fest alright.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    Rock music is completely dead in the main stream. Don't think anyone can argue that.

    Pop music is pop music. Perry and Swift get s**t on but their non commercial stuff is probably no worse than most of pop released in 70s.

    And let's not forget that the 60's, 70's and 80's produced their fair share of rubbish too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 426 ✭✭Nikki Sixx


    The top blockbusters consist mainly of superhero type movies, based on Marvel and D.C. characters. Film companies want to make something with a guaranteed audience, with huge bock office takings. That’s why they make 7/8 films in the Fast and the Furious series. It’s all about the money nowadays.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,157 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Maybe it is just getting old, but nowadays the music industry is either niche artists that grow through Youtube or manufactured ones from the lastest tv show.
    Without likes of Youtube modern music would be absolute pants.

    It is almost like a generation of Bay City Rollers. :mad:

    As for TV, well the likes of HBO have revolutionised TV with series such as Sopranos, Band of Brothers, The Wire and others have created such programs as Breaking Bad, Boardwalk Empire, etc.

    But there has also been some awful shyte on TV and it is often remakes of iconic tv series of the past like Magnum, Hawaii 5-0, etc

    And there is shag all originality in Hollywood movies where you have either got remakes, sequels or comic superheroes based stuff that is 75% CGI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    Woke Hogan wrote:
    A man born in the late 40s would have watched Tarzan films in the cinema when they were kids and mature, thematically more sophisticated films like Annie Hall by the late 70s.

    Woke Hogan wrote:
    Star Wars came out in 1977 and the generations who grew up watching it never graduated to serious films for adults.

    Totally disagree, me girlfriend and mates love Star Wars and indie cinema.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    I dont know what age you are but Im in my early 20's and I prefer most of the movies and music of today than the 70's stuff you listed, taste just changes, not always for the worst. Although I appreciate lots of them too like Fleetwood Mac

    I wouldnt say its all throwaway either, even though there is a greater supply of entertainment more for instant gratification purposes with rather little staying power, but I can imagine people listening to songs like Rolling in the deep in 50 years tbh


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    How do the people complaining about the lack of good new music and movies find out about new releases, artists, etc? Do they just wait until it permeates down through popular culture enough to reach them?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    And Hollywood is churning out superhero franchises and remakes at a rate of knots for a reason also (anything else too risky).
    Hollywood has always done this. When trends kick off and are profitable they run with them. For donkey's years they were rattling out westerns damned near every week. When Lucas was hawking Star Wars around the studios they weren't interested and it hard a hard time getting a green light. Of course when it went into the stratosphere the studios dug up and wheeled out every science fiction script they could find. The first Star Trek flic nearly pipped Star Wars getting made as that was being hawked around the studios at a similar time, but nobody wanted a bar of it and that was hugely popular in TV syndication land, but the studios didn't see an audience for that stuff. Then Star Wars happened and it got the green light and a massively inflated budget. Similar trends where the Swords and Sandals epics of the fifties, where they raided the Classical world of Rome and Greece. And the Biblical epics which also had the Sword and Sandals stuff too. War flics have come and gone too which war depending on the generation. QV the glut of Vietnam flics in the 70's and 80's, the WW2 flics in the 50's 60's and 70's. Pirate films had their run in the sun too.

    Remakes? A shed load of them including some what are seen as true classics now. The Maltese Falcon was a remake and only a few years after the original too. The Scarface of the 80's was a remake. Some Like It Hot another. Kurosawa's Seven Samurai was remade as western(cos popular then) into The Magnificent Seven(it also inspired a load of other flics). God knows how many Mutiny on the Bounty's have been shot. :D
    Yermande wrote: »
    There are many auteur directors who don't edit their films. It's a relationship I don't really understand and I find it difficult to see where good direction ends and good editing begins. I'm sure there's huge overlap, but then again there are many celebrated editors so it must be a significant creative element in its own right.
    Actually the original Star Wars is a good example. The pretty much final cut Lucas showed to the studio and friends was met with a large dose of WTF is this guff George? That's a film that was saved in the cutting room. The ending in particular with the suspense of the Death Star threatening to blow up our hero's base was all in editing, not how it was shot(the back and forth cuts to the special effect monitor screen of the base coming into target range just one example). It can be more subtle too, like in a film such as Jaws. The fake shark prop not working really helped, but so did the editing. Spielberg notes this when he talks about the process and how his editor Verna Fields transformed the film. For a start she cut out as much of the footage of the rubber shark(when it worked) as possible and trimmed shots more vigorously than Speilberg admits he would have. Threw in a load of jarring jump cuts to amp up tensions in the viewers too.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Time is a great filter, nobody remembers the terrible films and music from decades ago and longer unless they were so terrible that they gained a cult following. As someone who enjoys terrible films I can pretty much guarantee the list of films you're only seeing a narrow selection of what was out there in the 70s. Then you have the rise of cheap cameras and formats that allowed anyone to make a film. But with cinema releases there's so much money involved that the movies are pretty conservative, nobody wants to risk money on doing anything that doesn't have mass appeal. Terrible direct releases still exist but you won't find them in the cinema.

    Music is a little different, we still see the same filter of people only listening to the good older stuff and not the rubbish. There's also the same flood of terrible music when it became cheap enough for anyone to put out a tape that they could record themselves with cheap equipment. But music made on the cheap isn't as limited as film: a few guys can buy studio time and record something professional sounding without the need for all the different specialists that go with movie making. The internet allows people to distribute music and bypass the publishers. The stuff that's left to the big labels is the highly refined pop stuff with the widest appeal and marketing muscle behind it. If it sounds very samey it's because they've gotten better at making music catchy and following the trends that generate the money. But good, well made music is all over the place if you look for it and you can access it on the likes of Youtube and iTunes just like the big money pop stuff.

    That's my ****ty theory anyway, online everyone's an expert.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭Yermande


    kowloon wrote: »
    Time is a great filter, nobody remembers the terrible films and music from decades ago and longer unless they were so terrible that they gained a cult following. As someone who enjoys terrible films I can pretty much guarantee the list of films you're only seeing a narrow selection of what was out there in the 70s. Then you have the rise of cheap cameras and formats that allowed anyone to make a film. But with cinema releases there's so much money involved that the movies are pretty conservative, nobody wants to risk money on doing anything that doesn't have mass appeal. Terrible direct releases still exist but you won't find them in the cinema.

    Music is a little different, we still see the same filter of people only listening to the good older stuff and not the rubbish. There's also the same flood of terrible music when it became cheap enough for anyone to put out a tape that they could record themselves with cheap equipment. But music made on the cheap isn't as limited as film: a few guys can buy studio time and record something professional sounding without the need for all the different specialists that go with movie making. The internet allows people to distribute music and bypass the publishers. The stuff that's left to the big labels is the highly refined pop stuff with the widest appeal and marketing muscle behind it. If it sounds very samey it's because they've gotten better at making music catchy and following the trends that generate the money. But good, well made music is all over the place if you look for it and you can access it on the likes of Youtube and iTunes just like the big money pop stuff.

    That's my ****ty theory anyway, online everyone's an expert.

    This, all day long.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    The “you like old stuff because you’re old” argument doesn’t work.
    It's so disingenuous and unthinking - just a bandwagon thing to say for thanks.

    If anyone honestly thinks mainstream music is no worse today than it was 40 or 50 years ago (and I'd be surprised if anyone actually does) they are deluding themselves to oblivion.

    Maybe mainstream film is no different - I don't know.

    On the flipside, TV is likely the best it's ever been.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3 rays schism




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    It's so disingenuous and unthinking - just a bandwagon thing to say for thanks.


    The age thing is a factor though. We like what's familiar to us and we're less adventurous as we get older.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    xckjoo wrote: »
    The age thing is a factor though. We like what's familiar to us and we're less adventurous as we get older.
    An element for sure, but I've considered mainstream music to be deteriorating ever since I was a teenager.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    An element for sure, but I've considered mainstream music to be deteriorating ever since I was a teenager.

    Exactly. Thats the normal perception. Because you have gotten older. The music has no fundamental substance. Todays youth does think todays music is just as fine as you thought the music was when you were a teenager.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Exactly. Thats the normal perception. Because you have gotten older. The music has no fundamental substance. Todays youth does think todays music is just as fine as you thought the music was when you were a teenager.

    This argument has been made a few dozen times on this thread. While it’s true that older people might not like new music it’s also true that not every era is going to produce the same kind of brilliance across all art.

    Most people acknowledge that TV is better, so maybe TV is actually better and music is actually worse rather than everything being the same all the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    there have been studies done on music, reading age of the lyrics has dropped and so has complexity, so objectively you could say music is worse now, except you have all the older stuff to fall back on i guess

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    Music took a nose dive when Nirvana came out, got worse when Oasis started trying (and failing) to sing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    This argument has been made a few dozen times on this thread. While it’s true that older people might not like new music it’s also true that not every era is going to produce the same kind of brilliance across all art.

    Older people dont like new mainstream music. But they can like music, new to them, if it is good enough. They will like Bach or Verdi, because it is very good. But not the lastest pop pap. They did like, and possible still do like, they pap of their youth. But not because it was better music, rather that it is the non musical associations that gave them the pleasure.
    It the uniformly low quality of music that people alive can have heard at its launch, that leads people to think it was better in the past. It wasnt. It was just that they liked it. Not the same thing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    Music is very much tied to the era you grew up in.
    Music tastes change over time.

    Movies though have gotten worse imo.
    Sure, there's still plenty of decent indie movies but there's a definite decline in the making of decent dramas by Hollywood.
    Hollywood isn't even attempting to make another Godfather type movie.
    It's also noticeable how divergent Oscar winners have come from movies that have commercial success.

    Moves are either incredibly "arty" these days or completely dumb. The middle ground seems to have been lost in Hollywood.
    Super hero movies have been fun to watch but they're definitely reaching a saturation point.


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