Have we reach peak LGBT nonsense?

eagle eye · 22-04-2019 02:52AM

King Mob wrote:

Does that mean I can expect a reply? Can you show where your boy is backed up by the Bible where other christians are not?

I already told you where he was backed up. You came back saying this ridiculous church is also backed up by that. I asked you to show me where they were backed up but you never did.

22-04-2019 03:05AM

eagle eye wrote: »

I already told you where he was backed up. You came back saying this ridiculous church is also backed up by that. I asked you to show me where they were backed up but you never did.

Yes. You just declared that his claim was back up by a book of the bible.
You didnt explain how it backed him up.

Similarly the Westboro Baptist Church absolutely uses the exact same passage to back up their position on gay people.
So how can the same passage be valid back up for you guy, but not valid back up for the WBC?

Why are you saying this church is ridiculous when all of their positins come from their interpretation of the bible?
Are you arguing that their interpretation is wrong?

Also just to make it super clear: do you believe what the WBC does is hate speech? Is it homophobic or bigoted?

eagle eye · 22-04-2019 04:29AM

King Mob wrote:

Why are you saying this church is ridiculous when all of their positins come from their interpretation of the bible? Are you arguing that their interpretation is wrong?

Show me where they are backed up by the bible.

22-04-2019 05:02AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Show me where they are backed up by the bible.

The same place your boy is backed up.
They use the same bible. They share the same belief, just different levels of offensiveness.

You've also missed my question.
Is what the WBC do hate speech? Bigoted? Homophobic?

pauldla · 22-04-2019 06:39AM

The Westboro Baptist Church website is apparently blocked by some ISPs, but it is still possible to get an idea of some of the Biblical verses they reference. The following is from a paper called 'The “Dark” Side of Christianity: A Content Analysis of the Westboro Baptist Church www.godhatesfags.com' by Meghan Nelson, Katie Hoefler, and Emily Mjolsness.

In defending their use of the word “fag” they respond by saying they are using it in a metaphorical way, a fag literally means kindling, which adds fuel to a fire. Fags are “fueling the fire of God’s wrath” which is why they chose this negative connotation to depict their target group of sinners. By being a homosexual they are making God very upset and they are adding fuel to the flame. The WBC states that they are not the ones that hate fags; God is the one who hates fags. They support this view with several biblical verses throughout the entire website where God states that man shall not lie with another man, and if he does he will be doomed to death. “Sodomites: are wicked & sinners before the Lord exceedingly (Gen 13:13), doom nations (Gen. 19), are abomination (Lev. 18:22), are worthy of death (Rom. 1:32), are likened unto dogs as filthy, impudent, and libidinous (Deut. 23:18)....etc.”

Ave Sodalis · 22-04-2019 06:56AM

eagle eye wrote:

You are not worth taking seriously due to the insults. So don't expect a response.

Okay then, I will say it. You can't repent for what you are and how you were born.

smacl · 22-04-2019 08:36AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Well call me pedantic but phobia doesn't mean aversion, at least not in the hatred sense. It's dislike or even hatred due to fear. The word relates solely to fear.

Again, from Merriam Webster

MW wrote:

homophobia noun
ho·mo·pho·bia | \ ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə \
Definition of homophobia
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

From Wikipedia entry for homophobia

Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It has been defined as contempt, prejudice, aversion, hatred or antipathy, may be based on irrational fear, and is often related to religious beliefs.

Homophobia is observable in critical and hostile behavior such as discrimination and violence on the basis of sexual orientations that are non-heterosexual.
Recognized types of homophobia include institutionalized homophobia, e.g. religious homophobia and state-sponsored homophobia, and internalized homophobia, experienced by people who have same-sex attractions, regardless of how they identify.

Folau in this case is preaching religious homophobia.

smacl · 22-04-2019 08:43AM

Interesting article on religious homophobia on Medium. It would seem that while hard-line Christians are defending Folau's right to preach homophobia as free speech, those critical of religious homophobia are being censored by Facebook and twitter.

22-04-2019 08:53AM

You know what (reservations about companies impinging on employees, out of hours, aside) I'm fuc*ing deligjted he's gone. He's been a sore for years now.

Rugby is not covering itself in glory here. Billy V doubled down on his comments on Sat, this time on club duty doing the MotM interview. He'll get nothing against him. Commentators were sympathetic about the "tough week" he's had, his club supporters are cheering him on.

Cabaal · 22-04-2019 10:37AM

eagle eye wrote: »

You are not worth taking seriously due to the insults.
So don't expect a response.

You are incapable of forming a reasoned, logical or none-hateful reply.
Thats fine, thanks for confirming.

Now, lets go back to repenting for what you are.
eagle eye you must repent for existing, if you don't I fear that you will burn in hell.

eagle eye · 22-04-2019 10:53AM

smacl wrote:

Folau in this case is preaching religious homophobia.

You can quote all day from whatever dictionary you like. I think it's wrong and I used spend a lot of time reading and understanding the meaning of words.
It makes no sense that a word with phobia in it would relate to anything other than fear.
A new word is required for hate of homosexuality.
A lot of people need to be educated too as regards what exactly hate speech is.

eagle eye · 22-04-2019 10:56AM

King Mob wrote:

The same place your boy is backed up. They use the same bible. They share the same belief, just different levels of offensiveness.

King Mob wrote:

You've also missed my question. Is what the WBC do hate speech? Bigoted? Homophobic?

You show me the quotes that back up their belief system and I'll answer your question.
You need to do it for their racist beliefs, anti-semite beliefs etc.

smacl · 22-04-2019 11:14AM

eagle eye wrote: »

You can quote all day from whatever dictionary you like. I think it's wrong and I used spend a lot of time reading and understanding the meaning of words.
It makes no sense that a word with phobia in it would relate to anything other than fear.
A new word is required for hate of homosexuality.
A lot of people need to be educated too as regards what exactly hate speech is.

So you think your definition of a word is correct and the definition in one of the world's most trusted dictionaries is wrong on the basis that the dictionary definition doesn't comply with your understanding of the English language. Then you suggest people should become better educated on the basis that they disagree with your clearly and demonstrably incorrect assumption.

You might find it painful that Folau's position is that of a homophobic bigot, but that doesn't stop it being true.

Nothing wrong with being wrong in your understanding of a term every now and again, happens to me regularly, but you correct this by refining your understanding, not demanding the world change to make your incorrect assumption the new truth,

eagle eye · 22-04-2019 11:37AM

smacl wrote:

So you think your definition of a word is correct and the definition in one of the world's most trusted dictionaries is wrong on the basis that the dictionary definition doesn't comply with your understanding of the English language. Then you suggest people should become better educated on the basis that they disagree with your clearly and demonstrably incorrect assumption.

You are mixing up two things, whether deliberately or not.
I am saying that any word with the word phobia in it should only relate to fear.
As far as people needing to be educated , that's in relation to what they believe hate speech is.

smacl wrote:

You might find it painful that Folau's position is that of a homophobic bigot, but that doesn't stop it being true.

I disagree that he is homophobic.

smacl wrote:

Nothing wrong with being wrong in your understanding of a term every now and again, happens to me regularly, but you correct this by refining your understanding, not demanding the world change to make your incorrect assumption the new truth,

I prefer to.thonk things through and understand band accept I'm wrong. In this instance I don't accept I'm wrong, I believe the people who believe that a word that includes phobia means anything other than fear. It makes no sense otherwise.

batgoat · 22-04-2019 11:51AM

Phobia includes "aversion", aversion can also mean hate.. So y'know what, you might need to study words for a bit longer.

eagle eye · 22-04-2019 11:56AM

batgoat wrote:

Phobia includes "aversion", aversion can also mean hate.. So y'know what, you might need to study words for a bit longer.

Aversion means hate due to fear in that sense.

smacl · 22-04-2019 11:58AM

eagle eye wrote: »

I prefer to.thonk things through and understand band accept I'm wrong. In this instance I don't accept I'm wrong, I believe the people who believe that a word that includes phobia means anything other than fear. It makes no sense otherwise.

Then you perhaps need to further educate yourself so, because the definition of homophobia doesn't vary from one dictionary to the next. Trying to rationalise your flawed understanding by decomposing the word doesn't make you right and all those scholars who curate our collective understanding of the English language wrong.

What you seem to believe, much as Folau believes, is personal and subjective based on your own world view and prejudices. It is not the objective truth by any stretch of the imagination.

eagle eye · 22-04-2019 12:12PM

smacl wrote:

Then you perhaps need to further educate yourself so, because the definition of homophobia doesn't vary from one dictionary to the next. Trying to rationalise your flawed understanding by decomposing the word doesn't make you right and all those scholars who curate our collective understanding of the English language wrong.

Yes, I'm starting to believe that I have a greater understanding of the meaning of words than the majority if them. It may be time fir me to start attending meetings regarding this.

smacl wrote:

What you seem to believe, much as Folau believes, is personal and subjective based on your own world view and prejudices. It is not the objective truth by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't think I have any irrational prejudice. I don't agree with Folau, I'm non-religious and I have gay friends.
I'm pro free speech, I think differently to you and many others as to what hate speech is, hate is a very strong word but you guys just seem to throw it around like confetti.
A lot of you come across as quick to turn to anger which is not a good trait.

AllForIt · 22-04-2019 12:14PM

smacl wrote: »

Interesting article on religious homophobia on Medium. It would seem that while hard-line Christians are defending Folau's right to preach homophobia as free speech, those critical of religious homophobia are being censored by Facebook and twitter.

Well that's a good one. At the same time Facebook/Twitter etc are being criticized for the content they allow, all the while they actually have been censoring behind the scenes but not the stuff you'd expect. I think Folau's comments could be described as 'sensitive' content - but allowed.

smacl · 22-04-2019 12:42PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes, I'm starting to believe that I have a greater understanding of the meaning of words than the majority if them. It may be time fir me to start attending meetings regarding this.

Best of luck with it, let us know when you get the dictionaries revised because you're right and everyone else is wrong.

I don't think I have any irrational prejudice. I don't agree with Folau, I'm non-religious and I have gay friends.
I'm pro free speech, I think differently to you and many others as to what hate speech is, hate is a very strong word but you guys just seem to throw it around like confetti.
A lot of you come across as quick to turn to anger which is not a good trait.

Hate is a strong word, but then actively encouraging homophobia for whatever reason is quite a lot worse and entirely reprehensible. The "turn or burn" style of religion that pushes homophobia, religious intolerance and antiquated sexual ethics deserves to be challenged when it asserts itself. People may well have the right to express these extreme sentiments but similarly they must expect to face a harsh response for doing so. Personally I think it is fine to talk about your beliefs in terms of how they might affect you and those who share your beliefs but unreasonable to talk disparagingly about others who don't share your beliefs. Suggesting someone will go to hell and suffer for all eternity because they don't share your beliefs is bang out of order, and in my opinion, hateful.

22-04-2019 01:34PM

eagle eye wrote: »

You show me the quotes that back up their belief system and I'll answer your question.
You need to do it for their racist beliefs, anti-semite beliefs etc.

Why? We are discussing their homophobic/anti gay beliefs.
Their beliefs there are supported by the same quotes that support your boy's.
(They support their other beliefs with the bible too)

So are their beliefs about gay people acceptable? Are they not bigoted?

Sean.3516 · 22-04-2019 01:40PM

Can someone please define homophobia?

splinter65 · 22-04-2019 01:51PM

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Can someone please define homophobia?

Claustrophobia is fear of confined spaces.
Arachnophobia fear of spiders.
Agoraphobia fear of confined spaces.
Homophobia is fear of homosexual people.

22-04-2019 01:55PM

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Can someone please define homophobia?

You can use it as a short hand for "anti homosexual bigotry".

Are people now arguing that bigotry against gay people doesn't exist?

eagle eye · 22-04-2019 01:57PM

King Mob wrote:

Why? We are discussing their homophobic/anti gay beliefs. Their beliefs there are supported by the same quotes that support your boy's. (They support their other beliefs with the bible too

So are their beliefs about gay people acceptable? Are they not bigoted?

You are the one that brought them up and their view on different things.

eagle eye · 22-04-2019 01:58PM

King Mob wrote:

Are people now arguing that bigotry against gay people doesn't exist?

No, not me anyway.

22-04-2019 02:04PM

eagle eye wrote: »

You are the one that brought them up and their view on different things.

I brought them in as an example of a hate group that does a particularly good job of showing where in the bible their hateful ideas are supported.
By your argument they cannot be hateful as their claims are supported by the bible.
In particular, their beliiefs about gay people are supported by the exact same passage you said supported your fella's beliefs.

So for the umpteenth time: are their views of gay people hateful? Bigoted? Acceptable?
What makes their claims and beliefs invalid that doesnt apply to your guy?

batgoat · 22-04-2019 02:05PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Claustrophobia is fear of confined spaces.
Arachnophobia fear of spiders.
Agoraphobia fear of confined spaces.
Homophobia is fear of homosexual people.

Both you and Eagle being intentionally pedantic doesn't negate recognised the globally recognised definition.

intense hatred or fear of homosexual people or homosexuality

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/homophobia (provides a couple of alternatives but all amounts to the same thing)

Some background on the origin of the terms explains the rationale for it. No doubt you two will think that this is a part of some ridiculous gay agenda. But the reality is, there's no reasonable rationale to be either in fear or hold contempt towards gay people. The term also has never excluded religious beliefs as an example of homophobia.

“I coined the word homophobia to mean it was a phobia about homosexuals,” Weinberg told psychology professor Gregory M. Herek at the University of California in 1998. “It was a fear of homosexuals which seemed to be associated with a fear of contagion, a fear of reducing the things one fought for — home and family. It was a religious fear, and it had led to great brutality, as fear always does.”

...
Indeed, Weinberg suggested those who displayed characteristics of homophobia to be the ones worthy of the mental disorder classification, writing as such in his book Society and the Healthy Homosexual.

In a 2012 article for Huffington Post, Weinberg wrote that “‘homophobia’ was exactly the concept that gay men and lesbians needed to achieve liberation. The word conveyed that gay people were not the ones suffering from an emotional problem; their oppressors were. Gay individuals saw that there was no longer any reason to condemn themselves or other people like themselves.”

He added: “As long as homophobia exists, as long as gay people suffer from homophobic acts, the word will remain crucial to our humanity.”
https://www.metroweekly.com/2017/03/george-weinberg-creator-homophobia-dies-87/

22-04-2019 02:05PM

eagle eye wrote: »

You are the one that brought them up and their view on different things.

Cool. Can you provide an example of such that you accept?

Sean.3516 · 22-04-2019 02:06PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Claustrophobia is fear of confined spaces.
Arachnophobia fear of spiders.
Agoraphobia fear of confined spaces.
Homophobia is fear of homosexual people.

Then it seems you have no disagreement whatsoever with religious people like myself. If any Jew, Christian or Muslim is homophobic as you have defined the term then they are either theologically incorrect or they have some other issue that I wish them good luck in recovering from.

I believe that homosexual activity is sinful. However, I am not afraid of people who engage in it. Nor am I hateful of them. They can do as they please.

Explain to me why Gay people care so much about my personal beliefs when I frankly couldnt give a damn about theirs.

Have we reach peak LGBT nonsense?

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