Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

23-03-2019 2:00pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/short-term-lets-2-4555639-Mar2019/?utm_source=shortlink

This ruling doesn’t change anything, but further supplants the understanding that short term letting of a residential property is a change of use

We can only hope that the ruling is enforced.

25-03-2019 2:43am

Is this actually going to be law by 1st June?

When it was announced back in October they said they wanted it through by the end of 2018. It involves changes to primary legislation but it doesn't even appear to have gone through committee stage yet with two months to go to when its supposed to be enacted.

Am I missing something or does this not have an awful lot of legislative steps to go through.

12-04-2019 9:04am

AirBnBs to face extra fees, water, insurance and commercial rates.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/extra-charges-set-for-airbnb-homes-in-clampdown-on-regulations-917260.html

Extra charges set for Airbnb homes in clampdown on regulations

By Daniel McConnell
Political Editor

Mod Note

Please don't post entire articles.

pgj2015 · 12-04-2019 11:14am

The absolute cheek of the government to do this. i would rather leave my house empty than rent it to long term tenants because they want me to.

L1011 · 12-04-2019 11:19am

pgj2015 wrote: »

The absolute cheek of the government to do this. i would rather leave my house empty than rent it to long term tenants because they want me to.

How is requiring commercial enterprises to act as such "cheek" exactly?

Bluefoam · 12-04-2019 11:20am

pgj2015 wrote: »

The absolute cheek of the government to do this. i would rather leave my house empty than rent it to long term tenants because they want me to.

Okay... I'm going to assume that you are curently AirBNB'ing the place... do you have the appropriate planning? Are you currently running it within regulation? Are you competing as a hotel & what standards are you operating under?

It seems the government are just elaborating on the current legistlation and are applying business practices to what is a business. I suggest you just apply for planning and if you recieve it you'll be free to run your business in a professional manner... No worries.

AlmightyCushion · 12-04-2019 11:20am

pgj2015 wrote: »

The absolute cheek of the government to do this. i would rather leave my house empty than rent it to long term tenants because they want me to.

How is it cheek to introduce legislation to strengthen already existing laws that are being ignored?

Samuel T. Cogley · 12-04-2019 11:26am

Amirani wrote: »

Depends on how short term lets are defined really. If you have a place and rent it out for 9 months a year to Dublin college students and then 3 months to foreign students on a working holiday then I can't see this being a problem under proposed legislation.

Correct. Anything over two weeks is not considered a short term let from what I can gather.

12-04-2019 8:52pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

The absolute cheek of the government to do this. i would rather leave my house empty than rent it to long term tenants because they want me to.

If you are air bnb'ing your property in a residential area or building then I am happy with this legislation, not for the government or rental sector but for the sheer lack of respect you show to the neighbours of that Airbnb house you have. Imagine trying to raise a family in a residential area with houses on Airbnb where you don't know whose coming and going with new people every week.

Imagine the parties, imagine the lack of respect of the houses like slamming doors etc., I bought a holiday house 2 years back and while most are now owner occupied there is a let next to mine and it's a nightmare. Now I knew it was a holiday village originally but I can assure you the people renting it don't care for the house or residents, they are there for a week or 2 and wont see us again so it slamming doors, parties, etc.. it's like the luck of the draw who is going to rent it. Cant wait for it to be sold.

Now that's a holiday area, I would hate to live next to a house where the owners Airbnb it and couldn't care less about those living there

13-04-2019 8:30am

https://www.thejournal.ie/airbnb-says-new-laws-are-unenforceable-but-minister-says-locals-know-the-short-term-let-on-their-street-4589817-Apr2019/

13-04-2019 8:38am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you are air bnb'ing your property in a residential area or building then I am happy with this legislation, not for the government or rental sector but for the sheer lack of respect you show to the neighbours of that Airbnb house you have. Imagine trying to raise a family in a residential area with houses on Airbnb where you don't know whose coming and going with new people every week.

Imagine the parties, imagine the lack of respect of the houses like slamming doors etc., I bought a holiday house 2 years back and while most are now owner occupied there is a let next to mine and it's a nightmare. Now I knew it was a holiday village originally but I can assure you the people renting it don't care for the house or residents, they are there for a week or 2 and wont see us again so it slamming doors, parties, etc.. it's like the luck of the draw who is going to rent it. Cant wait for it to be sold.

Now that's a holiday area, I would hate to live next to a house where the owners Airbnb it and couldn't care less about those living there

Holiday village has short term holiday makers regularly?

And to be fair, I doubt many of us know what is going on in our neighbors house. Would you be happier if the house next door was rented to a nightmare tenant on a long term tenancy? I have been letting a house on Airbnb for over a year, we used to live in it so we know the neighbors for years. Never once have we, or they, had an issue with a guest, I’ve asked.

14-04-2019 4:43am

Does anyone know is the text of the proposed law available anywhere? I've looked in all the usual places and can't find it.

Even with moving it back to either 1st of July as some places are reporting or 11th of July like RTE is saying, it would be remarkably fast for this to be in place in time before the summer recess.

Can't believe it looks like we'll have to put up with another summer of this at least

Always Tired · 14-04-2019 4:50am

pgj2015 wrote: »

The absolute cheek of the government to do this. i would rather leave my house empty than rent it to long term tenants because they want me to.

But you won't do that, because you, and every LL, don't act based on moral convictions of any calibre. So save your song and dance, if you were happy to lose money based on moral principles you wouldnt be doing what you do.

Curb Your Enthusiasm · 14-04-2019 5:17am

Am I right in thinking this new legislation will only effect homes in rent pressure areas?

Bluefoam · 14-04-2019 9:02am

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Am I right in thinking this new legislation will only effect homes in rent pressure areas?

Yes, but you will still be required to seek appropriate planning permission irrelevant of location.

14-04-2019 10:01am

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Am I right in thinking this new legislation will only effect homes in rent pressure areas?

Yes. And complete properties. No change if someone wishes to AirBnB their spare room.

17-04-2019 2:59am

https://www.thejournal.ie/airbnb-laws-no-delay-4595003-Apr2019/

"HOUSING MINISTER EOGHAN Murphy has told politicians to “hold their nerve” and not take heed of representations made to them calling for a “grace period” in the new short-term let laws.

TheJournal.ie understands that an email from Airbnb has been sent to a number of hosts asking them to contact politicians about the proposed regulations and request a postponement."

"The correspondence from Airbnb seen by TheJournal.ie state that the company is seeking a “grace period from government”, and mentions that the Housing Committee will be considering the regulations today. "

Kidkinobe · 17-04-2019 3:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/airbnb-laws-no-delay-4595003-Apr2019/

"HOUSING MINISTER EOGHAN Murphy has told politicians to “hold their nerve” and not take heed of representations made to them calling for a “grace period” in the new short-term let laws.

TheJournal.ie understands that an email from Airbnb has been sent to a number of hosts asking them to contact politicians about the proposed regulations and request a postponement."

"The correspondence from Airbnb seen by TheJournal.ie state that the company is seeking a “grace period from government”, and mentions that the Housing Committee will be considering the regulations today. "

Wonder who the politicians will listen too...The Airbnb owners or the people desperately searching for a rental they can afford...

Tar.Aldarion · 17-04-2019 9:05am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/short-term-lets-2-4555639-Mar2019/?utm_source=shortlink

This ruling doesn’t change anything, but further supplants the understanding that short term letting of a residential property is a change of use

Those guys kicked my friend out of an apartment in smithfield to turn it into Airbnb. One of them had to leave the apartment so they refused to allow anybody else to move in knowing the remaining tenant couldn't pay for a 2 bed place on their own, saying they'll make more money from Airbnb. Rent was already really high.

LuckyLloyd · 17-04-2019 9:23am

Airbnb speaking out of one side of their mouths saying its unenforceable; yet sending out message templates to long term lettors on their platform looking to lobby politicians to postpone / cancel the legislation.

Must be very enforceable so...

Tar.Aldarion · 17-04-2019 9:57am

It's much more enforceable in Dublin than somewhere like NY but even there there are inspections and guests are thrown out. Here there aren't skyscrapers of people, you know if your neighbour is airbnbing and people will be reported.

LuckyLloyd · 17-04-2019 10:51am

I agree. I know which apartments on my corridor are constantly let out short term.

Claw Hammer · 17-04-2019 11:33am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Those guys kicked my friend out of an apartment in smithfield to turn it into Airbnb. One of them had to leave the apartment so they refused to allow anybody else to move in knowing the remaining tenant couldn't pay for a 2 bed place on their own, saying they'll make more money from Airbnb. Rent was already really high.

That was the sensible thing to do.

machalla · 17-04-2019 12:05pm

I see the date on this has moved from 1st June to 1st July based on the below article

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/regulation-of-short-term-letting-sector-belated-but-welcome-918174.html

"From July 1, potential rental homes will no longer be available short-term, except with planning permission and even then rarely, says Eoin Ó Broin (SF)

After much delay, the Government has finally introduced regulations for the short-term letting sector. Last week, the Oireachtas Housing Committee unanimously passed Housing Minister Eoghan Murphy’s amendments to the Planning and Development Act 2000, which are set to become law before the summer.

The new rules will only apply to properties within rent-pressure zones and, as with the 4% cap, will expire at the end of 2021, unless extended by further legislation.

Based on proposals made by the Housing Committee in October 2017, the regulations will operate on three levels and will apply from July 1, a month later than originally announced."

Claw Hammer · 17-04-2019 1:24pm

machalla wrote: »

I see the date on this has moved from 1st June to 1st July based on the below article

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/regulation-of-short-term-letting-sector-belated-but-welcome-918174.html

"From July 1, potential rental homes will no longer be available short-term, except with planning permission and even then rarely, says Eoin Ó Broin (SF)

After much delay, the Government has finally introduced regulations for the short-term letting sector. Last week, the Oireachtas Housing Committee unanimously passed Housing Minister Eoghan Murphy’s amendments to the Planning and Development Act 2000, which are set to become law before the summer.

The new rules will only apply to properties within rent-pressure zones and, as with the 4% cap, will expire at the end of 2021, unless extended by further legislation.

Based on proposals made by the Housing Committee in October 2017, the regulations will operate on three levels and will apply from July 1, a month later than originally announced."

The 90 days will then take it up to October meaning the whole summer season will be comprehended.

18-04-2019 12:29pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The 90 days will then take it up to October meaning the whole summer season will be comprehended.

Thats only if you're letting out your principal private residence which I presume you would have to prove by showing that you are taxed there etc.

I'm delighted these regulations are being brought in but I feel sorry for the tourists who have booked in good faith who will inevitably get caught out because of chancers who were well aware that this was coming in this summer and took bookings regardless.

overkill602 · 19-04-2019 5:35am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I agree. I know which apartments on my corridor are constantly let out short term.

what will come after i should worry more at least you could be sure any noise was temporary stick one bad tenant its long term no enforcement of any antisocial laws.

my argument is more fact based
have lot of airbnb north inner city + streets are cleaner no shouting scumbags
- no accommodation for scumbags there litter is missing
Reason i have a place there used 2 pick up there rubbish + needles thrown into my basement recent check was spotless.
Laws for AIRBNB, no laws for the scumbags it replaced, not right
Fcuk those who claim its for the social good that includes mcverery they are hypocrites who wont have in there area...
Free homes for everybody but not beside me..
end of rant

Yurt2 · 19-04-2019 6:18am

overkill602 wrote: »

what will come after i should worry more at least you could be sure any noise was temporary stick one bad tenant its long term no enforcement of any antisocial laws.

my argument is more fact based
have lot of airbnb north inner city + streets are cleaner no shouting scumbags
- no accommodation for scumbags there litter is missing
Reason i have a place there used 2 pick up there rubbish + needles thrown into my basement recent check was spotless.
Laws for AIRBNB, no laws for the scumbags it replaced, not right
Fcuk those who claim its for the social good that includes mcverery they are hypocrites who wont have in there area...
Free homes for everybody but not beside me..
end of rant

Because it's a binary option between scumbags and tourists. There are two types of people in Dublin; scumbags and German/French tourists. Which one are you?

Graham · 19-04-2019 10:57am

Mod

Seriously??

overkill602/Yurt, stop posting so early in the morning. It makes you both cranky.

TSQ · 19-04-2019 10:09pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Those guys kicked my friend out of an apartment in smithfield to turn it into Airbnb. One of them had to leave the apartment so they refused to allow anybody else to move in knowing the remaining tenant couldn't pay for a 2 bed place on their own, saying they'll make more money from Airbnb. Rent was already really high.

How could they stop him getting a new flatmate? I don’t think you can do that, so I am sceptical to say the least. Unless his tenancy was less than 6 months? Or was it an owner occupier who was renting to him, in which case the new law will make no difference.

Amirani · 20-04-2019 7:11am

TSQ wrote: »

How could they stop him getting a new flatmate? I don’t think you can do that, so I am sceptical to say the least. Unless his tenancy was less than 6 months? Or was it an owner occupier who was renting to him, in which case the new law will make no difference.

If you have a tenancy agreement with 2 people, and one of them moves out, you have no legal obligation to allow a new tenant come in to replace the old one. Why would you be sceptical about this?

TSQ · 20-04-2019 8:41am

Amirani wrote: »

If you have a tenancy agreement with 2 people, and one of them moves out, you have no legal obligation to allow a new tenant come in to replace the old one. Why would you be sceptical about this?

Well, I am pretty sure someone on another property/letting thread posted a link to legislation covering tenant's rights, and as far as I recall, an existing tenant with a part IV tenancy could transfer his tenancy to another tenant, who in turn gained part IV rights after 6 months. If anyone knows the link, pleas re-post it here. I distinctly remember it because I was shocked that a landlord who took the trouble to vet tenants could end up after a year with a tenant they had never even met and could not get rid of. And I imagine the PRTB would take a dim view of turning a joint tenancy into a single tenancy and forcing the remaining tenant to pay the full rent. There are so many tenant rights I am pretty sure no landlord would be able to get away with it if the tenant opened an dispute with the PRTB.

20-04-2019 8:57am

TSQ wrote: »

Well, I am pretty sure someone on another property/letting thread posted a link to legislation covering tenant's rights, and as far as I recall, an existing tenant with a part IV tenancy could transfer his tenancy to another tenant, who in turn gained part IV rights after 6 months. If anyone knows the link, pleas re-post it here. I distinctly remember it because I was shocked that a landlord who took the trouble to vet tenants could end up after a year with a tenant they had never even met and could not get rid of. And I imagine the PRTB would take a dim view of turning a joint tenancy into a single tenancy and forcing the remaining tenant to pay the full rent. There are so many tenant rights I am pretty sure no landlord would be able to get away with it if the tenant opened an dispute with the PRTB.

A landlord has a right to refuse assignment of a lease, the tenant as a consequence has the right to terminate the tenamcy agreement. Where things get less clear is when the LL refuses and the existing tenant does not want to leave. If the lease was joint and both tenants named, the remaining tenant is severally liable for the whole rent, which hardly seems fair in this situation, but legally that may be the reality. I can’t see how there would be much of an RTB case as the LL is not actually evicting the tenant, he is just exercising his right not to allow assignment or sublet.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements/subletting-and-assignment/

4ensic15 · 20-04-2019 9:09am

TSQ wrote: »

Well, I am pretty sure someone on another property/letting thread posted a link to legislation covering tenant's rights, and as far as I recall, an existing tenant with a part IV tenancy could transfer his tenancy to another tenant, who in turn gained part IV rights after 6 months. If anyone knows the link, pleas re-post it here. I distinctly remember it because I was shocked that a landlord who took the trouble to vet tenants could end up after a year with a tenant they had never even met and could not get rid of. And I imagine the PRTB would take a dim view of turning a joint tenancy into a single tenancy and forcing the remaining tenant to pay the full rent. There are so many tenant rights I am pretty sure no landlord would be able to get away with it if the tenant opened an dispute with the PRTB.

A tenant can only assign his tenancy with the consent of the landlord. Equally the consent of the landlord is needed to sublet. It is not the landlord turning a joint tenancy into a single tenancy, it is the tenants themselves. The RTB must follow the law, not make it up.

Tar.Aldarion · 20-04-2019 9:14am

Thays what happened, think I even made a thread on here asking about it at the time. Seemed like a loophole to me that the persons part IV didn't really protect them in that scenario because of another tenants actions. It was the law but didn't seem in the spirit of the law.

The landlord basically said there's nothing you can do about this. All he had to do was refuse and make the remaining tenant pay everything, which in an apartment at Smithfield Square is not gonna be possible.

They could have even swapped tenants and the LL wouldn't have known, they were there years with no contact but wanted to do it by the book and got burned.

4ensic15 · 20-04-2019 9:56am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Thays what happened, think I even made a thread on here asking about it at the time. Seemed like a loophole to me that the persons part IV didn't really protect them in that scenario because of another tenants actions. It was the law but didn't seem in the spirit of the law.

The landlord basically said there's nothing you can do about this. All he had to do was refuse and make the remaining tenant pay everything, which in an apartment at Smithfield Square is not gonna be possible.

They could have even swapped tenants and the LL wouldn't have known, they were there years with no contact but wanted to do it by the book and got burned.

When two people enter a joint tenancy each is vulnerable to the actions of the other. Why are you blaming the landlord?

davindub · 20-04-2019 9:59am

TSQ wrote: »

Amirani wrote: »

If you have a tenancy agreement with 2 people, and one of them moves out, you have no legal obligation to allow a new tenant come in to replace the old one. Why would you be sceptical about this?

Well, I am pretty sure someone on another property/letting thread posted a link to legislation covering tenant's rights, and as far as I recall, an existing tenant with a part IV tenancy could transfer his tenancy to another tenant, who in turn gained part IV rights after 6 months. If anyone knows the link, pleas re-post it here. I distinctly remember it because I was shocked that a landlord who took the trouble to vet tenants could end up after a year with a tenant they had never even met and could not get rid of. And I imagine the PRTB would take a dim view of turning a joint tenancy into a single tenancy and forcing the remaining tenant to pay the full rent. There are so many tenant rights I am pretty sure no landlord would be able to get away with it if the tenant opened an dispute with the PRTB.

You are correct, the terms sublet and assign do not apply in this situation. I posted the flac link long ago, but any solicitor will be able to explain the same.

20-04-2019 3:44pm

Oooops. Neighbors not happy campers! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6942383/Manchester-partygoers-attack-police-try-shut-rowdy-AirBnB-house-party.html

arctictree · 21-04-2019 11:13pm

Thinking of getting one of those shepherds huts and renting it out to tourists on Airbnb for the summer season. Anything in the new rules that would prevent me from doing this?

Bluefoam · 22-04-2019 10:14am

arctictree wrote: »

Thinking of getting one of those shepherds huts and renting it out to tourists on Airbnb for the summer season. Anything in the new rules that would prevent me from doing this?

You would need to have planning permission to run it as a hotel. Does it have a suitable commercial kitchen and housekeeping facilities?

arctictree · 22-04-2019 12:01pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

You would need to have planning permission to run it as a hotel. Does it have a suitable commercial kitchen and housekeeping facilities?

There's a kitchenette in the unit and will probably go with a compost toilet. Since its mobile, I doubt if planning permission would be needed?

L1011 · 22-04-2019 12:28pm

arctictree wrote: »

There's a kitchenette in the unit and will probably go with a compost toilet. Since its mobile, I doubt if planning permission would be needed?

It will still need planning permission.

arctictree · 22-04-2019 2:21pm

L1011 wrote: »

It will still need planning permission.

Knowing the council around here, that would be a waste of time!

Bluefoam · 22-04-2019 5:30pm

You are changing the purpose of the land from residential (I assume) to hotel. You'll also be liable for tax on your income and be open to inspection.

22-04-2019 8:15pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

You are changing the purpose of the land from residential (I assume) to hotel. You'll also be liable for tax on your income and be open to inspection.

Not to mention rates, water charges etc.

Kloe_Kat · 01-05-2019 12:30pm

arctictree wrote: »

Thinking of getting one of those shepherds huts and renting it out to tourists on Airbnb for the summer season. Anything in the new rules that would prevent me from doing this?

The new rules only appply in rent pressure zones, not nationally.

Bluefoam · 01-05-2019 12:38pm

Kloe_Kat wrote: »

The new rules only appply in rent pressure zones, not nationally.

That is kind of correct. However, the existing planning laws (which the new regulation are designed to serve) do apply nationally.

Samuel T. Cogley · 01-05-2019 2:57pm

Kloe_Kat wrote: »

The new rules only appply in rent pressure zones, not nationally.

That's not the case at all. What's been said is planning permission, which is required nationally for airbnb will not be granted in RPZs.

CoffeeBean2 · 01-05-2019 4:12pm

Are these new rules official yet? Was the required law passed? I have only heard various stories in the news that the new laws are coming, but not that they are officially in place.

Also, what happens to the bookings already made for this summer? Surely that will cause a bit of disruption to tourists that have already booked flights. People arriving to find no accommodation, and probably hotels fully booked won't help the country's image as a tourist destination.

Would it not make more sense to bring in the laws first and grant a six month grace period for bookings already made?

Bluefoam · 01-05-2019 4:22pm

CoffeeBean2 wrote: »

Are these new rules official yet? Was the required law passed? I have only heard various stories in the news that the new laws are coming, but not that they are officially in place.

Also, what happens to the bookings already made for this summer? Surely that will cause a bit of disruption to tourists that have already booked flights. People arriving to find no accommodation, and probably hotels fully booked won't help the country's image as a tourist destination.

Would it not make more sense to bring in the laws first and grant a six month grace period for bookings already made?

Why... If you are running a house as a hotel, then you are operating illegally & your bookings are not legitimate. Granting grace in this scenario would be unusual from a legal standpoint... It's like telling everyone you're going to take their guns away, so if they want to shoot someone, do it now...

Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

Comments