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Airing Religious Views

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  • #32
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,905 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    valoren wrote: »
    he harped on about how Jesus, his lord and saviour, had been "walking the fairways" with him all week

    Wow, what a self-obsessed tosser.

    Does he not have the brain capacity to realise that there are a multitude of things in the universe more important for a god to be doing, should he/she/it exist, than watching some stupid cúnt play golf ffs?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #33
    King of Kings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭King of Kings


    lawred2 wrote: »
    you think the majority agree with Israel Falou's private beliefs?

    probably not but id say only a minority wet their pants over his view too.
    Most people can shrug their shoulders and move on without getting upset.

    Going by posters here its funny people moaning about his posts seem to be the anti-religion crowd anyway.
    So they are complaining that he is sending gays to a place that doesnt exist.....gotta figure that out myself....


  • #34
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,963 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Wow, what a self-obsessed tosser.

    Does he not have the brain capacity to realise that there are a multitude of thing in the universe more important for a god to be doing, should he/she/it exist, than watching some stupid cúnt play golf ffs?

    well they think their god is omniscient so it shouldn't stop their god from doing other things at the same time.


  • #35
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    There's an incitement to hatred law. So he can't say anything he likes, wrapping it up as religious beliefs probably makes it more acceptable though.


  • #36
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    I believe he was already warned to keep his views separate from his professional life he ignored his employers request, now he gets to spout his views as much as he wishes.


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  • #37
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    kneemos wrote: »
    There's an incitement to hatred law. So he can't say anything he likes, wrapping it up as religious beliefs probably makes it more acceptable though.

    How is it incitement to hatred? Seriously.

    I fully understand that he can't say whatever he likes. He didn't say attack homosexuals/drunks etc.

    If I say "drunks are going to hell", how in the name of fcuk is that incitement to hate drunks?


  • #38
    jjpep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭jjpep


    It's interesting how religious views are treated. It's basically someone saying stuff and then not backing up what they're saying and just hiding behind a wall of 'its my religion'. What I'd like to see is this guy (and others like him) actually having to justify what he's said and not being allowed to hide behind 'its my belief'.


  • #39
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,136 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    grahambo wrote: »
    The Rule in 2019 is:
    You're not allowed to say anything that might "trigger" some mad person or upset a delicate snow flake.

    Basically the world has to pretend to be super inclusive, accepting and culturally diverse even though it really isn't.

    If he believes that, then fine. (Who cares!?)
    But he was an absolute IDIOT for saying it on social media, it's cost him his career.

    Ugh. Trigger and delicate snowflake in one sentence. Edgy.

    The fact is that rugby doesn't want to be associated with anti gay rhetoric. And why should they want to be associated with that stuff?

    The world isn't particularly inclusive, you're right about that. Rugby is trying to become inclusive to people outside its traditional player case and somehow you're putting yourself in opposition to that. Isn't that interesting?

    The experience of Tom Shanklin and Nige owens both suggest that rugby wasnt a welcoming environment for gays. So rugby is proactively telling gays and everyone else that they are welcome to come play rugby. I'm fine with that.

    I'm sure you'll ignore the fact that he is free to believe and post anything he likes. He hasn't been silenced. He just can't post certain things while under contract.

    Like the people supporting him, he seems to see value in feeling persecuted. Strange how done people's minds work.


  • #40
    evil_seed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭evil_seed


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Firstly, I think religion is stupid. But hey, if you want to partake, work away.
    Secondly, I have no problem with gay people. Live and let live.

    https://news.sky.com/story/israel-folau-rugby-star-to-be-sacked-over-anti-gay-social-media-post-11694460

    That said, it's troubling me that Israel Folou is in so much hot water for airing his own religious views that homosexuals are going to go to hell. To be fair, that's pretty much what the Catholic church teach. It's pretty much what's written in the bible. I think Islam pretty much teaches the same.

    So why is he being sacked for airing his religious views, views that are common amongst many? Is it now a crime to air your religious views?

    Is it really discrimination to say that gays are going to hell, especially when it's the teaching of many churches around the world?

    I could understand the outrage if he said to get your pitchfork and kill gays but he did nothing of the sort.

    Or is it a case of it's ok to believe what you like but keep your mouth shut.

    Even if the view is something that I don't agree with, I don't agree with silencing that view. If we go down that road, it's not a nice place to end up.

    Hi Izzy, sorry to read about you getting fired


  • #41
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    NIMAN wrote: »
    No one stopped him from airing his views.

    In fact he can do it on the hour every hour from now on if he wants.

    But he'll no longer be doing it as a professional rugby player, he'll just be one of many cranks on the Internet.

    The way I see it, it all depends on his contract.

    If he has specifically agreed to not air his religious views, then screw him, he's in breach of contract.

    If he hasn't, then he's just another religious asshole. You can't go sacking people for being assholes.

    If sponsors want to abandon him, that's their choice, but we don't sack every asshole bus driver or barman now do we?

    Where does that end? I'd be the only one left in my company for a start:D


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  • #42
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,783 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Ugh. Trigger and delicate snowflake in one sentence. Edgy.

    The fact is that rugby doesn't want to be associated with anti gay rhetoric. And why should they want to be associated with that stuff?

    The world isn't particularly inclusive, you're right about that. Rugby is trying to become inclusive to people outside its traditional player case and somehow you're putting yourself in opposition to that. Isn't that interesting?

    The experience of Tom Shanklin and Nige owens both suggest that rugby wasnt a welcoming environment for gays. So rugby is proactively telling gays and everyone else that they are welcome to come play rugby. I'm fine with that.

    I'm sure you'll ignore the fact that he is free to believe and post anything he likes. He hasn't been silenced. He just can't post certain things while under contract.

    Like the people supporting him, he seems to see value in feeling persecuted. Strange how done people's minds work.

    Gareth Thomas?


  • #43
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    jjpep wrote: »
    It's interesting how religious views are treated. It's basically someone saying stuff and then not backing up what they're saying and just hiding behind a wall of 'its my religion'. What I'd like to see is this guy (and others like him) actually having to justify what he's said and not being allowed to hide behind 'its my belief'.

    Explain to me how he can back up his belief? What does he do, bring back cctv footage of hell and it's full of gays? He can't back up his beliefs with proof. That's the whole idea of religion. It's a belief without a shred of proof.


  • #44
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    valoren wrote: »
    I recall golfer Zach Johnson airing his religious views after he won the US Masters in 2007. During his sit down interview to get the green jacket which is watched by millions he harped on about how Jesus, his lord and saviour, had been "walking the fairways" with him all week, that he found strength from that and conveyed that this helped him win so to speak. So here was another sportsperson airing his religious views. Did his corporate sponsors dump him? Did the companies he endorsed drop him unceremoniously? Of course they didn't. It was nice to see someone take pride in their religious views. Zach Johnson may very well believe that homosexuals are destined to burn in hell, no one knows, because he's not stupid enough to say something like that if he does believe that and is intelligent enough to understand the consequences personally and professionally for him if he said anything like that on any public forum.

    There is nothing wrong with saying that you think some deity helped you win.

    That is vastly different to saying that your deity thinks that certain groups of people are evil and going to hell.


  • #45
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,783 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Explain to me how he can back up his belief? What does he do, bring back cctv footage of hell and it's full of gays? He can't back up his beliefs with proof. That's the whole idea of religion. It's a belief without a shred of proof.

    handy that when you don't like some group of people


  • #46
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,136 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Gareth Thomas?

    Correct. Gareth Thomas not Tom Shanklin.


  • #47
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    lawred2 wrote: »
    lol

    so to find such comments distasteful is to be a snowflake... :rolleyes:

    I suppose it depends on whether you actually believe in Heaven and Hell and Everlasting life and some lad stabbing ya with a trident for all eternity and all the rest of that rubbish.

    I thought his comment wasn't a nice thing to, but I more so found them to be absolutely tick!!
    Am I offended... No, Are my LGBT mates offended... No. Why? Cause we're not snowflakes and we recognise that Israel Folau is just some dope waving a Bible around.

    As far as I am aware he was told not to post his stupid/extreme religious views before, but he went and did it anyway.


  • #48
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    The way I see it, it all depends on his contract.

    If he has specifically agreed to not air his religious views, then screw him, he's in breach of contract.

    If he hasn't, then he's just another religious asshole. You can't go sacking people for being assholes.

    If sponsors want to abandon him, that's their choice, but we don't sack every asshole bus driver or barman now do we?

    Where does that end? I'd be the only one left in my company for a start:D

    I think if a bus driver was telling everyone that boarded their bus that gay people would be going to hell they would not be in their job for much longer.


  • #49
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    lawred2 wrote: »
    handy that when you don't like some group of people

    Yep, it's a pile of sh1te. But hey, that's religion.

    My point in this thread though isn't anti-religion or anti-gay. The only think I'm anti is the shutting down and taking away the livelihood of people with different views.

    I'd fully agree with Falou being sacked if he incited hatred against anybody. But he didn't. He didn't say 'get out your pitchforks and kill the fcukers' or anything remotely similar.

    He said that if you are a member of that group, you are going to go to this 'fictional' place.

    I don't think that's worth losing your job over.


  • #50
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    robinph wrote: »
    I think if a bus driver was telling everyone that boarded their bus that gay people would be going to hell they would not be in their job for much longer.

    The bus driver would be in work if he was telling everybody who boarded their bus that gay people would be going to hell.

    Falou posted what he did in his own spare time. Folou didn't tell people his beliefs whilst in work.

    They aren't the same thing.


  • #51
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,783 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Yep, it's a pile of sh1te. But hey, that's religion.

    My point in this thread though isn't anti-religion or anti-gay. The only think I'm anti is the shutting down and taking away the livelihood of people with different views.

    I'd fully agree with Falou being sacked if he incited hatred against anybody. But he didn't. He didn't say 'get out your pitchforks and kill the fcukers' or anything remotely similar.

    He said that if you are a member of that group, you are going to go to this 'fictional' place.

    I don't think that's worth losing your job over.

    you seem to have conflated incitement to hatred with incitement to violence


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  • #52
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,963 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    The bus driver would be in work if he was telling everybody who boarded their bus that gay people would be going to hell.

    Falou posted what he did in his own spare time. Folou didn't tell people his beliefs whilst in work.

    They aren't the same thing.

    Everything he does reflects on the organisation that pays him. An organisation with an ethos that is completely at odds with what he posted. He is a public figure. he did this publicly. He was warned before for doing the same thing.


  • #53
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,783 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    The bus driver would be in work if he was telling everybody who boarded their bus that gay people would be going to hell.

    Falou posted what he did in his own spare time. Folou didn't tell people his beliefs whilst in work.

    They aren't the same thing.

    Forgive me for saying but that's a stupid comparison.

    Falou as a contracted professional is a brand ambassador for Australian Rugby and Australian Rugby Sponsors.

    There is no 'spare time' where tweets like that are concerned.

    Sure what's to stop it being liked and retweeted while he's playing for Australia?


  • #54
    randd1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,421 ✭✭✭randd1


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Explain to me how he can back up his belief? What does he do, bring back cctv footage of hell and it's full of gays? He can't back up his beliefs with proof. That's the whole idea of religion. It's a belief without a shred of proof.

    Then how does he actually know that gays are going to hell, if there is a hell, or if there's a God, or if there's a God he/she sends gays to hell?

    As you say he can't prove it. So why spout about something you can't prove to be actually true?

    If heaven and hell did exist, wouldn't it be a delicious irony if heaven had a gay nightclub and a big gay scene and God was perfectly fine with it, and sent them to hell for being anti-gay where they end up being gay against their will as punishment from the devil?


  • #55
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    robinph wrote: »
    There is nothing wrong with saying that you think some deity helped you win.

    That is vastly different to saying that your deity thinks that certain groups of people are evil and going to hell.

    How so?

    There are books which lay out what each deity believes? This particular one doesn't like gays.

    You can choose to follow him or not, to believe it or not, to live by it or not - but what you can't do is you can't go changing what he is so you can follow someone a bit more likeable!

    Falau's god is sending gays to hell - that's it, that's the end of that discussion.

    If you don't like that, tough. Maybe start your own religion up, one where gays get sent to eternal Ibiza? Feel free to post your beliefs on the internet as much as you like!


  • #56
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    valoren wrote: »
    I recall golfer Zach Johnson airing his religious views after he won the US Masters in 2007. During his sit down interview to get the green jacket which is watched by millions he harped on about how Jesus, his lord and saviour, had been "walking the fairways" with him all week, that he found strength from that and conveyed that this helped him win so to speak. So here was another sportsperson airing his religious views. Did his corporate sponsors dump him? Did the companies he endorsed drop him unceremoniously? Of course they didn't. It was nice to see someone take pride in their religious views. Zach Johnson may very well believe that homosexuals are destined to burn in hell, no one knows, because he's not stupid enough to say something like that if he does believe that and is intelligent enough to understand the consequences personally and professionally for him if he said anything like that on any public forum.

    100%. All Katie Taylor drones on about is God.


  • #57
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    robinph wrote: »
    I think if a bus driver was telling everyone that boarded their bus that gay people would be going to hell they would not be in their job for much longer.

    What if he posted it on the internet?

    Falau wasn't going around the stadium shouting at gay people you know!


  • #58
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    https://www.rawstory.com/2019/04/scientists-established-link-religious-fundamentalism-brain-damage/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


    If youre a religious fundamentalist, you might quite literally be brain damaged


  • #59
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,094 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Why do people not understand this?
    He expressed this view publicly on a platform afforded to him by virtue of his fame due to his employment.
    Employer warned him not to as it would bring the organisation and sponsors into disrepute.
    He chose to anyway and now finds himself unemployed.

    His freedom of expression remains intact, the organisation's reputation is saved and every one is happy.


  • #60
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    The bus driver would be in work if he was telling everybody who boarded their bus that gay people would be going to hell.

    Falou posted what he did in his own spare time. Folou didn't tell people his beliefs whilst in work.

    They aren't the same thing.

    As an international rugby player, with his employers logos on his photos on his social media profiles, his social media following being due to his job then anything he says at any time can be considered to be representing his employer.

    If the bus driver goes an posts on his social media, then nobody notices or cares and because he is a bus driver nobody is following his social media. People were following Falou on social media because of his job, his job as a rugby player and representing Australian Rugby is full time as far as what he posts on social media.


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  • #61
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    lawred2 wrote: »
    you think the majority agree with Israel Falou's private beliefs?

    I 100% believe that the majority don't give a shyte about his private beliefs. The minority disagree with it and here we are.


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