looks like English,Irish,Math and Wellbeing will be only core JC subjects/programmes

judeboy101 · 18-04-2019 07:49AM #1

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0417/1043281-history-junior-cycle/

Draft review of history doesn't give it back its core status. It joins geography in and the other optional subjects.

Atoms for Peace · 18-04-2019 07:52AM

Expect "handy" wishy washy subjects to replace history and geography.

quintana76 · 18-04-2019 08:02AM

The will be compulsory gender studies classes and as time goes on "thoughts on the beauty of Islam"". Mark my words. I really wish the above was far-fetched.

spurious · 18-04-2019 08:16AM

Doesn't matter. Sure everyone will be passing everything anyway in case anyone would be offended by being told someone else is better than them at something.

Common level exams, non externally monitored assessments, giving timetable time to teach cop on and stuff parents should be doing - it's not just a slippery slope, it's an oiled slide.

18-04-2019 08:18AM

quintana76 wrote: »

The will be compulsory gender studies classes and as time goes on "thoughts on the beauty of Islam"". Mark my words. I really wish the above was far-fetched.

It is far fetched.

18-04-2019 08:19AM

'Math' doesn't compute on this side of the pond.

Pherekydes · 18-04-2019 08:20AM

quintana76 wrote: »

The will be ...classes ...on "thoughts on the beauty of Islam"".

They already do that. It's called algebra. :pac:

18-04-2019 08:31AM

spurious wrote: »

Doesn't matter. Sure everyone will be passing everything anyway in case anyone would be offended by being told someone else is better than them at something.

Common level exams, non externally monitored assessments, giving timetable time to teach cop on and stuff parents should be doing - it's not just a slippery slope, it's an oiled slide.

This, a million times. Enormous dumbing down is the order of the day. Everybody must be a success now, and what better way to do it than increasing the number of projects every parent/teacher - oops, student!- must do and giving them all pieces of paper for major achievements like getting up in the morning and staying off the phone for 10 minutes.

Nobody shouted stop except the ASTI, who were undermined by the TUI whose leadership the government had bought off. Divide and conquer. Government wins. Stupid teachers having two unions. Let them fix that before telling the government, which has outsmarted them again, that their "reforms" are myopic and idiotic (and they most definitely are).

judeboy101 · 18-04-2019 08:51AM

Deleted User wrote: »

'Math' doesn't compute on this side of the pond.

Auto correct set to US

Franz Von Peppercorn · 18-04-2019 08:52AM

Pherekydes wrote: »

They already do that. It's called algebra. :pac:

Greek. That’s the problem with no history classes.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 18-04-2019 08:59AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This, a million times. Enormous dumbing down is the order of the day. Everybody must be a success now, and what better way to do it than increasing the number of projects every parent/teacher - oops, student!- must do and giving them all pieces of paper for major achievements like getting up in the morning and staying off the phone for 10 minutes.

Nobody shouted stop except the ASTI, who were undermined by the TUI whose leadership the government had bought off. Divide and conquer. Government wins. Stupid teachers having two unions. Let them fix that before telling the government, which has outsmarted them again, that their "reforms" are myopic and idiotic (and they most definitely are).

What’s in it for the government though? Except stupidly copying other failed education systems.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 18-04-2019 09:02AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Greek. That’s the problem with no history classes.

Babylonians actually.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 18-04-2019 09:05AM

Kara Chubby Sunset wrote: »

Babylonians actually.

A continuum of advancement long long before the Middle Ages.

suicide_circus · 18-04-2019 09:07AM

"wellbeing" is something learned from your family and community not from a doss class in school.

18-04-2019 09:09AM

Kara Chubby Sunset wrote: »

Babylonians actually.

Ara sure now that geography is optional we can surely safely say they're all the one way over there in that place?

spurious · 18-04-2019 09:11AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What’s in it for the government though? Except stupidly copying other failed education systems.

It's almost always about money.
The downgrading of the exams saves lots of money for a start. I would say History is just the start of the curriculum butchery.

There will be a fair old free for all in the schools in terms of what they offer. Some will stick reasonably closely to the old ways, some will go down the 'airy fairy' route and parents will soon work out the closer the schools follow the old style curriculum the better, leading to even more good school/bad school cobblers.

The effect on LC will be fairly quick. This will either result in matching the LC to the 'improvements' at JC or the dawning of some common sense where we end up going back to the way it was.

ohnonotgmail · 18-04-2019 09:12AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Greek. That’s the problem with no history classes.

Babylonia actually. thats the problem with people who think they know history.

TheValeyard · 18-04-2019 09:12AM

History should be mandatory. It is essential to know our past. New subjects like 'Learning to Learn' are a complete waste of time and the new classroom based assessments (CBAs) have already been renamed 'Couldnt Be Arsed' by students.

Hoboo · 18-04-2019 09:19AM

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

History should be mandatory. It is essential to know our past. New subjects like 'Learning to Learn' are a complete waste of time and the new classroom based assessments (CBAs) have already been renamed 'Couldnt Be Arsed' by students.

Learning to learn a waste of time? I strongly disagree, learning is a skill in itself. And without knowing how to learn, every subject is pointless.

irishguitarlad · 18-04-2019 09:19AM

Just following the global trend of dismantling the humanities subjects. No one will be able to question or think critically in the future.

seamus · 18-04-2019 09:34AM

I don't know. I'm not that pushed about history tbh.

I would rather there was a civics and ethics course, and within that you can include history modules as necessary.

Having kids learn the date of the battle of the boyne or do projects on the reformation doesn't give them any useful practical knowledge.

Primary and secondary education should release kids with the tools to go and explore the world further, not with a head full of facts that they'll never use again.

padd b1975 · 18-04-2019 09:42AM

Wellbeing as a compulsory subject!!

Parents are kinda missing the point when they moan about their taxes being wasted on (non compulsory) religious education.

Canis Lupus · 18-04-2019 09:46AM

quintana76 wrote: »

The will be compulsory gender studies classes and as time goes on "thoughts on the beauty of Islam"". Mark my words. I really wish the above was far-fetched.

I feel like there needs to be a Godwin equivalent for mentioning islam in a thread.

LordBasil · 18-04-2019 10:26AM

The whole education system needs a total revamp for the 21st Century. Here are changes I'd like to see;

Irish compulsory only to JC level. By the time a student gets to do JC they have been studying Irish for over a decade so should be able to decide if they want to continue with it or not.

Restore History and Geography's compulsory status for JC.

English to be divided into 2 separate subjects for LC;

(1)Creative Writing. Students work on writing skills, creating stories, grammar, punctuation and so on.

(2)Literature, Poetry and Drama. All students to be required to stage a play.

These will help with self-expression, creativity, team work and confidence.

Science to be restructured. First 2 years of Junior cycle to remain same, 3rd Year students to specialise in their favourite discipline (Biology, Chemistry or Physics) so they can have a taste of leaving cert. Will help improve pass rates in LC Physics and Chemistry.

judeboy101 · 18-04-2019 11:05AM

LordBasil wrote: »

The whole education system needs a total revamp for the 21st Century. Here are changes I'd like to see;

Irish compulsory only to JC level. By the time a student gets to do JC they have been studying Irish for over a decade so should be able to decide if they want to continue with it or not.

Restore History and Geography's compulsory status for JC.

English to be divided into 2 separate subjects for LC;

(1)Creative Writing. Students work on writing skills, creating stories, grammar, punctuation and so on.

(2)Literature, Poetry and Drama. All students to be required to stage a play.

These will help with self-expression, creativity, team work and confidence.

Science to be restructured. First 2 years of Junior cycle to remain same, 3rd Year students to specialise in their favourite discipline (Biology, Chemistry or Physics) so they can have a taste of leaving cert. Will help improve pass rates in LC Physics and Chemistry.

In an era of STEM having science as optional is insane

18-04-2019 11:09AM

I think learning to learn is an important skill but i think history should still be compulsory. I only found out on here recently they took a bunch of stuff out of lc maths?

I don't think jc students should specialise science per a suggestion here, i think lc is enough time for that. You could change your mind between one day and the next at that stage and if you suddenly decide you want to do chemistry for the lc but didn't for the jc you are in trouble

ohnonotgmail · 18-04-2019 11:14AM

LordBasil wrote: »

The whole education system needs a total revamp for the 21st Century. Here are changes I'd like to see;

Irish compulsory only to JC level. By the time a student gets to do JC they have been studying Irish for over a decade so should be able to decide if they want to continue with it or not.

Restore History and Geography's compulsory status for JC.

English to be divided into 2 separate subjects for LC;

(1)Creative Writing. Students work on writing skills, creating stories, grammar, punctuation and so on.

(2)Literature, Poetry and Drama. All students to be required to stage a play.

These will help with self-expression, creativity, team work and confidence.

Science to be restructured. First 2 years of Junior cycle to remain same, 3rd Year students to specialise in their favourite discipline (Biology, Chemistry or Physics) so they can have a taste of leaving cert. Will help improve pass rates in LC Physics and Chemistry.

bluewolf wrote: »

I think learning to learn is an important skill but i think history should still be compulsory. I only found out on here recently they took a bunch of stuff out of lc maths?

I don't think jc students should specialise science per a suggestion here, i think lc is enough time for that. You could change your mind between one day and the next at that stage and if you suddenly decide you want to do chemistry for the lc but didn't for the jc you are in trouble

I have to agree. I think JC is far too early to specialise in science subjects. And what if you want to multiple science subjects for the LC? what would you specialise in at JC level?

Grayson · 18-04-2019 11:18AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Babylonia actually. thats the problem with people who think they know history.

but algebra comes from the arabic Al-jabr wa'l muqabalah which means the coming together of broken parts (That's a very basic translation). So when someone said that we were already studying islam and provided that as an example they weren't far off.

tell you what, why don't we all read this. Not because I think you need to upskill, but because I think it'll be fun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_algebra

Incidentally, i was in babylon as a kid. I mentioned this to my lecturer in the history of maths class and every time he mentioned babylon he's point at me. That was annoying.

beejee · 18-04-2019 11:19AM

I know a couple of teachers and its fascinating to hear the millions of compulsory changes. Ive yet to hear of one single change that sounds sensible, and the same for the teachers!

Just imagine what its going to be like as a retired person in years to come, having to witness the ineptitude of these ill-educated, social-media zombies trying to run our country. Its bad enough already, Jesus Christ!

ohnonotgmail · 18-04-2019 11:21AM

Grayson wrote: »

but algebra comes from the arabic Al-jabr wa'l muqabalah which means the coming together of broken parts (That's a very basic translation). So when someone said that we were already studying islam and provided that as an example they weren't far off.

tell you what, why don't we all read this. Not because I think you need to upskill, but because I think it'll be fun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_algebra

Incidentally, i was in babylon as a kid. I mentioned this to my lecturer in the history of maths class and every time he mentioned babylon he's point at me. That was annoying.

I did read it. Where do you think i got the info from?

Feisar · 18-04-2019 11:25AM

Hoboo wrote: »

Learning to learn a waste of time? I strongly disagree, learning is a skill in itself. And without knowing how to learn, every subject is pointless.

Ah I know different methods with have varying degrees of success with different people however yer post suggests the rest of us didn't learn anything without this "learning to learn" stuff. More important under the current system would be learning to sit exams.

The traditional three R's are still key in my opinion,however in school it's read, write, regurgitate. We cry about the loss of critical thinking in school leavers however it isn't a requirement to get through exams successfully.

looks like English,Irish,Math and Wellbeing will be only core JC subjects/programmes

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