looks like English,Irish,Math and Wellbeing will be only core JC subjects/programmes

judeboy101

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0417/1043281-history-junior-cycle/

Draft review of history doesn't give it back its core status. It joins geography in and the other optional subjects.

Atoms for Peace

Expect "handy" wishy washy subjects to replace history and geography.

quintana76

The will be compulsory gender studies classes and as time goes on "thoughts on the beauty of Islam"". Mark my words. I really wish the above was far-fetched.

spurious

Doesn't matter. Sure everyone will be passing everything anyway in case anyone would be offended by being told someone else is better than them at something.

Common level exams, non externally monitored assessments, giving timetable time to teach cop on and stuff parents should be doing - it's not just a slippery slope, it's an oiled slide.

circadian

quintana76 wrote: »

The will be compulsory gender studies classes and as time goes on "thoughts on the beauty of Islam"". Mark my words. I really wish the above was far-fetched.

It is far fetched.

'Math' doesn't compute on this side of the pond.

Pherekydes

quintana76 wrote: »

The will be ...classes ...on "thoughts on the beauty of Islam"".

They already do that. It's called algebra. :pac:

spurious

spurious wrote: »

Doesn't matter. Sure everyone will be passing everything anyway in case anyone would be offended by being told someone else is better than them at something.

Common level exams, non externally monitored assessments, giving timetable time to teach cop on and stuff parents should be doing - it's not just a slippery slope, it's an oiled slide.

This, a million times. Enormous dumbing down is the order of the day. Everybody must be a success now, and what better way to do it than increasing the number of projects every parent/teacher - oops, student!- must do and giving them all pieces of paper for major achievements like getting up in the morning and staying off the phone for 10 minutes.

Nobody shouted stop except the ASTI, who were undermined by the TUI whose leadership the government had bought off. Divide and conquer. Government wins. Stupid teachers having two unions. Let them fix that before telling the government, which has outsmarted them again, that their "reforms" are myopic and idiotic (and they most definitely are).

judeboy101

Deleted User wrote: »

'Math' doesn't compute on this side of the pond.

Auto correct set to US

Franz Von Peppercorn

Pherekydes wrote: »

They already do that. It's called algebra. :pac:

Greek. That’s the problem with no history classes.

Franz Von Peppercorn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This, a million times. Enormous dumbing down is the order of the day. Everybody must be a success now, and what better way to do it than increasing the number of projects every parent/teacher - oops, student!- must do and giving them all pieces of paper for major achievements like getting up in the morning and staying off the phone for 10 minutes.

Nobody shouted stop except the ASTI, who were undermined by the TUI whose leadership the government had bought off. Divide and conquer. Government wins. Stupid teachers having two unions. Let them fix that before telling the government, which has outsmarted them again, that their "reforms" are myopic and idiotic (and they most definitely are).

What’s in it for the government though? Except stupidly copying other failed education systems.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Greek. That’s the problem with no history classes.

Babylonians actually.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Kara Chubby Sunset wrote: »

Babylonians actually.

A continuum of advancement long long before the Middle Ages.

suicide_circus

"wellbeing" is something learned from your family and community not from a doss class in school.

Kara Chubby Sunset

Kara Chubby Sunset wrote: »

Babylonians actually.

Ara sure now that geography is optional we can surely safely say they're all the one way over there in that place?

spurious

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What’s in it for the government though? Except stupidly copying other failed education systems.

It's almost always about money.
The downgrading of the exams saves lots of money for a start. I would say History is just the start of the curriculum butchery.

There will be a fair old free for all in the schools in terms of what they offer. Some will stick reasonably closely to the old ways, some will go down the 'airy fairy' route and parents will soon work out the closer the schools follow the old style curriculum the better, leading to even more good school/bad school cobblers.

The effect on LC will be fairly quick. This will either result in matching the LC to the 'improvements' at JC or the dawning of some common sense where we end up going back to the way it was.

ohnonotgmail

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Greek. That’s the problem with no history classes.

Babylonia actually. thats the problem with people who think they know history.

TheValeyard

History should be mandatory. It is essential to know our past. New subjects like 'Learning to Learn' are a complete waste of time and the new classroom based assessments (CBAs) have already been renamed 'Couldnt Be Arsed' by students.

Hoboo

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

History should be mandatory. It is essential to know our past. New subjects like 'Learning to Learn' are a complete waste of time and the new classroom based assessments (CBAs) have already been renamed 'Couldnt Be Arsed' by students.

Learning to learn a waste of time? I strongly disagree, learning is a skill in itself. And without knowing how to learn, every subject is pointless.

irishguitarlad

Just following the global trend of dismantling the humanities subjects. No one will be able to question or think critically in the future.

seamus

I don't know. I'm not that pushed about history tbh.

I would rather there was a civics and ethics course, and within that you can include history modules as necessary.

Having kids learn the date of the battle of the boyne or do projects on the reformation doesn't give them any useful practical knowledge.

Primary and secondary education should release kids with the tools to go and explore the world further, not with a head full of facts that they'll never use again.

padd b1975

Wellbeing as a compulsory subject!!

Parents are kinda missing the point when they moan about their taxes being wasted on (non compulsory) religious education.

Canis Lupus

quintana76 wrote: »

The will be compulsory gender studies classes and as time goes on "thoughts on the beauty of Islam"". Mark my words. I really wish the above was far-fetched.

I feel like there needs to be a Godwin equivalent for mentioning islam in a thread.

LordBasil

The whole education system needs a total revamp for the 21st Century. Here are changes I'd like to see;

Irish compulsory only to JC level. By the time a student gets to do JC they have been studying Irish for over a decade so should be able to decide if they want to continue with it or not.

Restore History and Geography's compulsory status for JC.

English to be divided into 2 separate subjects for LC;

(1)Creative Writing. Students work on writing skills, creating stories, grammar, punctuation and so on.

(2)Literature, Poetry and Drama. All students to be required to stage a play.

These will help with self-expression, creativity, team work and confidence.

Science to be restructured. First 2 years of Junior cycle to remain same, 3rd Year students to specialise in their favourite discipline (Biology, Chemistry or Physics) so they can have a taste of leaving cert. Will help improve pass rates in LC Physics and Chemistry.

judeboy101

LordBasil wrote: »

The whole education system needs a total revamp for the 21st Century. Here are changes I'd like to see;

Irish compulsory only to JC level. By the time a student gets to do JC they have been studying Irish for over a decade so should be able to decide if they want to continue with it or not.

Restore History and Geography's compulsory status for JC.

English to be divided into 2 separate subjects for LC;

(1)Creative Writing. Students work on writing skills, creating stories, grammar, punctuation and so on.

(2)Literature, Poetry and Drama. All students to be required to stage a play.

These will help with self-expression, creativity, team work and confidence.

Science to be restructured. First 2 years of Junior cycle to remain same, 3rd Year students to specialise in their favourite discipline (Biology, Chemistry or Physics) so they can have a taste of leaving cert. Will help improve pass rates in LC Physics and Chemistry.

In an era of STEM having science as optional is insane

I think learning to learn is an important skill but i think history should still be compulsory. I only found out on here recently they took a bunch of stuff out of lc maths?

I don't think jc students should specialise science per a suggestion here, i think lc is enough time for that. You could change your mind between one day and the next at that stage and if you suddenly decide you want to do chemistry for the lc but didn't for the jc you are in trouble

ohnonotgmail

LordBasil wrote: »

The whole education system needs a total revamp for the 21st Century. Here are changes I'd like to see;

Irish compulsory only to JC level. By the time a student gets to do JC they have been studying Irish for over a decade so should be able to decide if they want to continue with it or not.

Restore History and Geography's compulsory status for JC.

English to be divided into 2 separate subjects for LC;

(1)Creative Writing. Students work on writing skills, creating stories, grammar, punctuation and so on.

(2)Literature, Poetry and Drama. All students to be required to stage a play.

These will help with self-expression, creativity, team work and confidence.

Science to be restructured. First 2 years of Junior cycle to remain same, 3rd Year students to specialise in their favourite discipline (Biology, Chemistry or Physics) so they can have a taste of leaving cert. Will help improve pass rates in LC Physics and Chemistry.

bluewolf wrote: »

I think learning to learn is an important skill but i think history should still be compulsory. I only found out on here recently they took a bunch of stuff out of lc maths?

I don't think jc students should specialise science per a suggestion here, i think lc is enough time for that. You could change your mind between one day and the next at that stage and if you suddenly decide you want to do chemistry for the lc but didn't for the jc you are in trouble

I have to agree. I think JC is far too early to specialise in science subjects. And what if you want to multiple science subjects for the LC? what would you specialise in at JC level?

Grayson

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Babylonia actually. thats the problem with people who think they know history.

but algebra comes from the arabic Al-jabr wa'l muqabalah which means the coming together of broken parts (That's a very basic translation). So when someone said that we were already studying islam and provided that as an example they weren't far off.

tell you what, why don't we all read this. Not because I think you need to upskill, but because I think it'll be fun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_algebra


Incidentally, i was in babylon as a kid. I mentioned this to my lecturer in the history of maths class and every time he mentioned babylon he's point at me. That was annoying.

beejee

I know a couple of teachers and its fascinating to hear the millions of compulsory changes. Ive yet to hear of one single change that sounds sensible, and the same for the teachers!

Just imagine what its going to be like as a retired person in years to come, having to witness the ineptitude of these ill-educated, social-media zombies trying to run our country. Its bad enough already, Jesus Christ!

ohnonotgmail

Grayson wrote: »

but algebra comes from the arabic Al-jabr wa'l muqabalah which means the coming together of broken parts (That's a very basic translation). So when someone said that we were already studying islam and provided that as an example they weren't far off.

tell you what, why don't we all read this. Not because I think you need to upskill, but because I think it'll be fun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_algebra


Incidentally, i was in babylon as a kid. I mentioned this to my lecturer in the history of maths class and every time he mentioned babylon he's point at me. That was annoying.

I did read it. Where do you think i got the info from?

Feisar

Hoboo wrote: »

Learning to learn a waste of time? I strongly disagree, learning is a skill in itself. And without knowing how to learn, every subject is pointless.

Ah I know different methods with have varying degrees of success with different people however yer post suggests the rest of us didn't learn anything without this "learning to learn" stuff. More important under the current system would be learning to sit exams.

The traditional three R's are still key in my opinion,however in school it's read, write, regurgitate. We cry about the loss of critical thinking in school leavers however it isn't a requirement to get through exams successfully.

sk8erboii

beejee wrote: »

I know a couple of teachers and its fascinating to hear the millions of compulsory changes. Ive yet to hear of one single change that sounds sensible, and the same for the teachers!

Just imagine what its going to be like as a retired person in years to come, having to witness the ineptitude of these ill-educated, social-media zombies trying to run our country. Its bad enough already, Jesus Christ!

Lol

You got a chip on your shoulder old man?

Thank f*ck your generation is going to die out soon.

seamus

bluewolf wrote: »

I think learning to learn is an important skill but i think history should still be compulsory.

I disagree. History is an academic pursuit. The kind of thing you go to college to study.

I think the history of individual subjects is important - so maths should include a brief discussion of the history of maths, physics should talk about Newton and Kepler, Biology talk about Crick, CSPE talk about DeValera and Hitler, etc.

But as a standalone topic, history is no more necessary than art or music. A wholly fulfilling pursuit for those interested in it, but not something any needs to study in order to go into the wider world.

LordBasil

judeboy101 wrote: »

In an era of STEM having science as optional is insane

Where did I say Science was to be made optional?

I said it should be restructured to encourage help more students to pass a LCScience subject.

Wibbs

Grayson wrote: »

Incidentally, i was in babylon as a kid.

Jaysus G you're old.

Wibbs

sk8erboii wrote: »

Thank f*ck your generation is going to die out soon.

and thank fuck you're not representative of yours.

whisky_galore

sk8erboii wrote: »

Lol

You got a chip on your shoulder old man?

Thank f*ck your generation is going to die out soon.

Shut up you doughnut.

sk8erboii

Wibbs wrote: »

and thank fuck you're not representative of yours.

I actually am. I do STEM, im smart and have a job.

Its actually pretty telling when a shining example of my generation is lambasted online by bitter old men. My generation will never get the respect we deserve but atleast when we write the history books, your generation will get the disgrace it deserves.

sk8erboii

whisky_galore wrote: »

Shut up you doughnut.

‘Bitter old men’

Jaysis lads

Sardonicat

Feisar wrote: »

Hoboo wrote: »

Learning to learn a waste of time? I strongly disagree, learning is a skill in itself. And without knowing how to learn, every subject is pointless.

Ah I know different methods with have varying degrees of success with different people however yer post suggests the rest of us didn't learn anything without this "learning to learn" stuff. More important under the current system would be learning to sit exams.

The traditional three R's are still key in my opinion,however in school it's read, write, regurgitate. We cry about the loss of critical thinking in school leavers however it isn't a requirement to get through exams successfully.

But it is a requirement to get through life successfully. How about changing the vastly over rated LC ?

jimgoose

sk8erboii wrote: »

Lol

You got a chip on your shoulder old man?

Thank f*ck your generation is going to die out soon.

After your "wellbeing" classes, I hope you can outrun a turbonitrous Fireblade piloted by a crazed, mohawk-wearing 87-year-old who needs your plump, juicy liver. See you on the road, scag! :cool::cool::D

seamus

seamus wrote: »

I disagree. History is an academic pursuit. The kind of thing you go to college to study.

I think the history of individual subjects is important - so maths should include a brief discussion of the history of maths, physics should talk about Newton and Kepler, Biology talk about Crick, CSPE talk about DeValera and Hitler, etc.

But as a standalone topic, history is no more necessary than art or music. A wholly fulfilling pursuit for those interested in it, but not something any needs to study in order to go into the wider world.

As an indepth study sure yeah, but i think it's very important to know the basic facts of how we got to where we are and how we know them. I remember we covered stuff like first hand and second hand sources which is something as important as ever with "fake news" everywhere. I think it's important to know the last couple centuries of basic timelines before going out into the world. You're just not going to learn it anywhere else casually. And it helps to know about any big mistakes in the past to help us try to avoid them in future.

Wibbs

sk8erboii wrote: »

im smart

A declaration that is a near gold standard litmus test the declarer isn't as smart as they think they are.

a shining example of my generation

You actually typed that? :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Wibbs

bluewolf wrote: »

As an indepth study sure yeah, but i think it's very important to know the basic facts of how we got to where we are and how we know them. I remember we covered stuff like first hand and second hand sources which is something as important as ever with "fake news" everywhere. I think it's important to know the last couple centuries of basic timelines before going out into the world. You're just not going to learn it anywhere else casually. And it helps to know about any big mistakes in the past to help us try to avoid them in future.

+ a bazillion. Even with history having being a mainstay of the curriculum for so long too many don't know some of the basic stuff. With it gone as a main subject...

jimgoose

bluewolf wrote: »

As an indepth study sure yeah, but i think it's very important to know the basic facts of how we got to where we are and how we know them. I remember we covered stuff like first hand and second hand sources which is something as important as ever with "fake news" everywhere. I think it's important to know the last couple centuries of basic timelines before going out into the world. You're just not going to learn it anywhere else casually. And it helps to know about any big mistakes in the past to help us try to avoid them in future.

I couldn't agree more. By all means get into history as deeply and as specialised as you wish in third-level and subsequent, but the overview provided hitherto in primary and secondary of who we are and why, helps youngsters understand their place among the 4m-odd alcoholics clinging to a rock, and also some understanding of other peoples.

sk8erboii

Wibbs wrote: »

A declaration that is a near gold standard litmus test the declarer isn't as smart as they think they are.

You actually typed that? :pac::pac::pac::pac:

You know the Dunning-Kruger effect was done on autodidacts?

Specifically people without formal education claiming to be smarter than whose have it?

Its a university circle jerk and i find it funny when crusty old men reference it, not knowing they’re the target.

But i guess ill cry over It when i reach my 30s in 10 years time.

It really feels good to be young

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Are you still able to drop science after first year? I was gobsmacked when one of my college friends told me she dropped science after first year in school. I had assumed at that point that science was a mandatory JC subject, mainly because most schools seem to have decided to make it mandatory to JC.

jimgoose

sk8erboii wrote: »

You know the Dunning-Kruger effect was done on autodidacts?

Specifically people without formal education claiming to be smarter than whose have it?

Its a university circle jerk and i find it funny when crusty old men reference it, not knowing they’re the target.

But i guess ill cry over I reach my 30s in 10 years time.

It really feels good to be young

It was originally done on a bank robber who was so thick he reckoned covering his face with lemon juice would confuse CCTV. It was since repeated on incompetent undergraduates.

ohnonotgmail

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Are you still able to drop science after first year? I was gobsmacked when one of my college friends told me she dropped science after first year in school. I had assumed at that point that science was a mandatory JC subject, mainly because most schools seem to have decided to make it mandatory to JC.

Science is not compulsory at all according to the department of education. Schools might have their own requirements though that make it compulsory for their students.

quintana76

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Just following the global trend of dismantling the humanities subjects. No one will be able to question or think critically in the future.

Tis the desired result behind the above policy. Beginning to work already.