John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

secman · 16-04-2019 07:43PM

secman wrote: »

Dont forget that top 4 auditing firms signed off on Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society Financial Statements and made no reference to huge sums, billions being deposited in Anglo Bank just before year end to give the impression they were deposit cash rich, and then returned to Irish Nationwide Building Society just after the year end. A very routine audit practice to examine post balance sheet events to check if any significant transactions after year end impacted on the Financial statements being audited would have picked this up, a trainee accountant would have picked this up, Stevie Wonder would have too, yet it was never reported nor reflected in the signed off financial statements, independence of Auditors fot you !

Interesting to note the exchange today when Sports Ireland spoke about who's auditing the Auditors, exactly my point a few days ago. Think its heading in the right direction though, FAI board will be disbanded very soon and Delaney will be gone in disgrace , his name will be muck, he once retorted to a question one day about his salary saying he turned down 2 or more job offers with 500k plus salaries, thought he was untouchable .... he will be soon but not as he hoped

Nesta99 · 16-04-2019 07:48PM

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1K84TMHWJYGYDKeW0Z68hLJMJq5_VKgvn/view

With Delaney not currently standing over the shoulders of people in the boardroom there certainly has been a change in tone of statements from the FAI. It's undoubted that members of the board will be in self preservation mode also but you get the feeling that they are less constrained by not having the former CEO ((legal team at hand to intimidate) dictating any letter or statement.
Having it mentioned by Robert Troy that a company has reported to him that a bung had to be paid to get FAI custom will surely have to be investigated also.
If JD had any real smarts, not been such an arrogant ass, he'd have walked away quickly when this all broke; Now he at minimum will have his finances scrutinised by the Revenue, maybe even face a legal investigation in to certain payments.
Certainly SI and others were confident enough today to say things that not so long ago would have had JD in the High Court trying to bully everything to be surppressed from the public domain.

There are additional issues that need to be answered/addressed - how incomplete financial records were audited and passed. It's being said that you can only audit what accounts are available but if there are glaring gaps in finances, irregular patterns in the accounts eg dipping in to a UEFA prizemoney bank account for day to day costs , it wouldnt have gotten by a decent auditor. Somebody didnt speak up there and sounds like another dose of cronyism albeit that you'd expect Deloitte and their like to be above it. I suppose though if they are being paid for their services they are not independant - paid to cover stuff up creatively?!

There also needs to be a broadening of the powers of the Oireachtas committees, people appearing before them should be compelled to answer questions or face something like a contempt charge - prevent any future wasting of time by somebody stonewalling. There should be some consequence to misleading the committee by ommission or otherwise.

Retrospective adjustment or annotation to submitted accounts, in the manner we have seen over the last number of weeks, should automatically trigger some sort of closer audit when public money is involved. I dont see any reason where 'corporately sensitive' financial information can be used as a smokscreen at a semi publicly funded sporting NGB and be withheld from the Minister for Sport when there is something seriously amiss.

Due process is needed if JD is to be removed from his job, and maybe they will find he has done nothing bar just being arrogant and idiotic But if he is culpable in dodgy dealings he should lose his FAI pension and be barred from holding any directors position for 10 years. CIMA/ACCA/ACE et al, should not allow him register going forward. Send him to Brazil for a week or two toboot....

Nesta99 · 16-04-2019 08:15PM

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

I would say someone schooled him very well into what to ask.....he is a mate of the FAI top brass

Besides the fact that its an archaic attitude (with respect typical of a more GAA point of view), it didnt make much sense considering that the FAI were pricing their 'season' tickets higher than the IRFU. The IRFU also didnt have a benefactor that was willing to pay a management team. Both payed relatively similar amounts for the redevelopment of Landsdowne yet at that time at least Rugby would have had much less general participation and relative support base than football. Rugby never got the sort of slice of the pie payments from UEFA/FIFA deals, or indeed €5mil hush money after a poor refereeing decision.

Would the FAI have even tried to pull that one in schooling a politician crony*. I actually thought O'Keefe (when I could understand what he was mumbling about) wasnt as biased as I expected - not in the same ballpark as Healy Rae!!

*I supposen organisation who matches the guts of 100m with the IRFU only to hand back full ownership of the stadium in a couple of decades is capable of being daft about anything!!

:o

Irishmale0399 · 16-04-2019 08:27PM

Nesta99 wrote: »

Besides the fact that its an archaic attitude (with respect typical of a more GAA point of view), it didnt make much sense considering that the FAI were pricing their 'season' tickets higher than the IRFU. The IRFU also didnt have a benefactor that was willing to pay a management team. Both payed relatively similar amounts for the redevelopment of Landsdowne yet at that time at least Rugby would have had much less general participation and relative support base than football. Rugby never got the sort of slice of the pie payments from UEFA/FIFA deals, or indeed €5mil hush money after a poor refereeing decision.

Would the FAI have even tried to pull that one in schooling a politician crony*. I actually thought O'Keefe (when I could understand what he was mumbling about) wasnt as biased as I expected - not in the same ballpark as Healy Rae!!

*I supposen organisation who matches the guts of 100m with the IRFU only to hand back full ownership of the stadium in a couple of decades is capable of being daft about anything!!:o

The difference between the IFRU and FAI is very simple. The management of the IFRU are exactly that managers, professional and good at their jobs looking in from outside.
The FAI on the other side is a lads club, JD surrounded himself with cronies and they use it as a personal object......no one to control them or step on the brakes. Take a bit today, a bit more tomorrow and it goes on....

As for the FAI schooling....they are calling in favours...backs to the wall and income sources running away. They pray on the weak and naive....or promise something to get people of influence to bite.

howiya · 16-04-2019 08:42PM

Nesta99 wrote: »

There also needs to be a broadening of the powers of the Oireachtas committees, people appearing before them should be compelled to answer questions or face something like a contempt charge - prevent any future wasting of time by somebody stonewalling. There should be some consequence to misleading the committee by ommission or otherwise.

No there doesn't. We had a referendum and voted against giving them extra powers. These committees are largely for grandstanding by backbench politicians who aren't subject matter experts.

givyjoe · 16-04-2019 09:38PM

I would really really like to hear the opinion's of the resident fai/JD supporters take on today's developments. Specifically the not keeping proper books.

the delicious irony of JD supposedly being a qualified accountant, yet presiding over a sh1t show of an organisation that can't/or won't keep proper books.

salmocab · 16-04-2019 09:49PM

Nesta99 wrote: »

*I supposen organisation who matches the guts of 100m with the IRFU only to hand back full ownership of the stadium in a couple of decades is capable of being daft about anything!!:o

To be fair it’s more like 50/60 years and the IRFU paid more money than the FAI and supplied the land. FAI got a decent deal on that but it was more down to the government than any great work on the FAIs part.

Beechwoodspark · 16-04-2019 09:50PM

Union guy on prime time saying Morale among the staff in fai is at an low time low

Oat23 · 16-04-2019 09:56PM

Chancer??? Dots???

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Ultimate Seduction · 16-04-2019 09:59PM

Really hope this doesn't effect the team. This is the most important qualification campaign in the history

Cyrus · 16-04-2019 10:13PM

givyjoe wrote: »

I would really really like to hear the opinion's of the resident fai/JD supporters take on today's developments. Specifically the not keeping proper books.

the delicious irony of JD supposedly being a qualified accountant, yet presiding over a sh1t show of an organisation that can't/or won't keep proper books.

He isn’t a qualified accountant

The qualified accountants who gave clean audit opinions and have now made this allegation should be ashamed of themselves

dundalkfc10 · 16-04-2019 10:15PM

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Really hope this doesn't effect the team. This is the most important qualification campaign in the history

Why it effect the team in any way?

givyjoe · 16-04-2019 10:22PM

Cyrus wrote: »

He isn’t a qualified accountant

The qualified accountants who gave clean audit opinions and have now made this allegation should be ashamed of themselves

I know he isn't, didn't he claim he was previously though. He does have an accountancy degree though no? Let me guess, you're absolving him of any blame in regard to failure to keep proper books?

Kirby · 16-04-2019 10:25PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Why it effect the team in any way?

It wont.

twowheelsonly · 16-04-2019 10:26PM

Oat23 wrote: »

They were bodies JD knew wouldn't challenge him on anything but would fill a role. A perfect example of the people he surrounds himself with at the FAI.

Opposite way around IMO.

Delaney was the figurehead and the heatseeker for those two. They've been around for a long, long time and have ruled the roost for many years. If anything, Delaney is the lesser of the three evils there, just the most public one. He held his job for so long thanks to those two, he was the ideal man for them.

Remember that those two were very outspoken against Fran Rooney and his management style - because they were next up for the chop and all their past secrets and cushy arrangements were at risk of being exposed and shut down. !! No co-incidence that they jumped ship yesterday when the idea of a forensic audit started to look real.

secman · 16-04-2019 10:32PM

Cyrus wrote: »

He isn’t a qualified accountant

The qualified accountants who gave clean audit opinions and have now made this allegation should be ashamed of themselves

The FAI financial year end is 31st December, the 2017 accounts were presented at AGM in Aug 2018, they are most likely working on the 31 Dec 2018 accounts and lodged the form with CRO, very few of these are ever issued and would not be done lightly as CRO have to notify Office of Corporate Enforcement who will now have to investigate it, presume Auditors will have to have sufficient evidence to back their decision to report.

Zico ! · 16-04-2019 10:32PM

still there so

secman · 16-04-2019 10:36PM

givyjoe wrote: »

I know he isn't, didn't he claim he was previously though. He does have an accountancy degree though no? Let me guess, you're absolving him of any blame in regard to failure to keep proper books?

Apparently passed the ICA FAE but didnt have the necessary 3 years training experience to apply for membership, allegedly.

Cyrus · 16-04-2019 11:21PM

givyjoe wrote: »

I know he isn't, didn't he claim he was previously though. He does have an accountancy degree though no? Let me guess, you're absolving him of any blame in regard to failure to keep proper books?

I have no idea what degree he has if any and what has that got to do with anything ?

As to your guess , guess again

Cyrus · 16-04-2019 11:23PM

secman wrote: »

The FAI financial year end is 31st December, the 2017 accounts were presented at AGM in Aug 2018, they are most likely working on the 31 Dec 2018 accounts and lodged the form with CRO, very few of these are ever issued and would not be done lightly as CRO have to notify Office of Corporate Enforcement who will now have to investigate it, presume Auditors will have to have sufficient evidence to back their decision to report.

I find it hard to believe that there is a massive deterioration in the books and records in one year that would have resulted in a clean audit opinion in 2017 and previous and now they have made an almost unprecedented allegation.

Covering their own backsides more like

secman · 16-04-2019 11:29PM

Cyrus wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that there is a massive deterioration in the books and records in one year that would have resulted in a clean audit opinion in 2017 and previous and now they have made an almost unprecedented allegation.

Covering their own backsides more like

Tend to agree with you, no spotlight last year but this year with all the revelations by the whistle blower, asses needed to be covered.

givyjoe · 16-04-2019 11:38PM

Cyrus wrote: »

I have no idea what degree he has if any and what has that got to do with anything ?

As to your guess , guess again

You've no idea? Yep, that says it all really.

You can't see the relevance of the CEO having an accounting degree, in a scenario where his organisation are not keeping proper books.. really?? Let me spell it out, he can't plead ignorance.

Ultimate Seduction · 16-04-2019 11:40PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Why it effect the team in any way?

It could. We see it in club football all the time. The negative vibes around the whole set up could effect the players. Hopefully not.

Nesta99 · 17-04-2019 02:00AM

Cyrus wrote: »

I have no idea what degree he has if any and what has that got to do with anything ?

As to your guess , guess again

He said did say himself often that he was a chartered accountant eg referring to Eircom Park when he was on the board of Waterford United along the lines of 'as a chartered accountant', he believed it wasnt feasable, as an aside I'm not sure he was right though and a 40k football stadium fully owned by the FAI for less than the Aviva debt could have been feasable (plans similar to St Mary's in Southampton for £30m (?). The issues at the time iirc were that government were pushing Berties Bowl, it was planned to have a silly amount of events eg concerts when in competition for the like with Croke Park and whatever would have been done with Lansdowne.But thats a different debate altogether with and with hindsight maybe.

When questioned CAI stated "We have members named John Delaney, but neither is the FAI chief executive. To be called a chartered accountant, you must be a member of our institute.”

Delaney's reply was “I passed my final admittance examination for chartered accountancy after completing the previous three professional examinations and I have served my full apprenticeship. I have not applied for membership as I have not required it for my career path.If I feel I require to be a member in the future, I will go through the formality of doing so.” It was also on his FAI online profile.
https://economia.icaew.com/news/september-2016/fai-chief-john-delaney-admits-he-is-a-not-a-chartered-accountant

Not sure if this was him saying this or a tongue in cheek piece by the indo when he was all the business as the FAI saviour!?

Age: 37 Job: Chief executive of the FAI Family: Married with three-year-old twins Education: CBS, Waterford DIT, where he studied chartered accountancy

Career: A background in business, setting up Cameo Cakes in Tralee before moving into the distribution business. He sold his QC Logistics firm to Belgian group QBX in 2002. Delaney became treasurer of the FAI before landing the top job almost one year ago.

Reading: The Genesis report

Car: Traded in his Merc for an Alfa Romeo, to support FAI sponsor Fiat

TV: Watches Scooby-Doo on TG4 on Saturday morning with his kids

Hobbies: Used to play golf

but no time for anything but football.

Football teams: Supports Ireland, Waterford and Manchester United.
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/john-delaney-the-cv-26213600.html

Cyrus · 17-04-2019 06:52AM

givyjoe wrote: »

You've no idea? Yep, that says it all really.

You can't see the relevance of the CEO having an accounting degree, in a scenario where his organisation are not keeping proper books.. really?? Let me spell it out, he can't plead ignorance.

Ok what accounting degree did he do ? I have no idea but you must know ?

And where has he pled ignorance ?

If you can’t see deloittes actions for what they are it says if all really

howiya · 17-04-2019 07:23AM

Cyrus wrote: »

If you can’t see deloittes actions for what they are it says if all really

Do you expect Deloitte to keep going along with it and say nothing?

They've been caught out. Hopefully it affects their reputation but with all the revelations they were going to have to do something.

Burkie1203 · 17-04-2019 07:30AM

howiya wrote: »

Do you expect Deloitte to keep going along with it and say nothing?

They've been caught out. Hopefully it affects their reputation but with all the revelations they were going to have to do something.

Maybe not.

Deloitte will have a legal team to fight the FAI unlike others and won't want to get dragged into this If they haven't done anything wrong.

Don't be surprised if they issue a letter to CRO resigning as auditors as the next step

s3rtvdbwfj81ch · 17-04-2019 07:47AM

Nesta99 wrote: »

TV: Watches Scooby-Doo on TG4 on Saturday morning with his kids

And he would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for that pesky journalist.

Cyrus · 17-04-2019 07:55AM

howiya wrote: »

Do you expect Deloitte to keep going along with it and say nothing?

They've been caught out. Hopefully it affects their reputation but with all the revelations they were going to have to do something.

Well they went along with it for long enough

Their cynicism has surprised me and that’s saying something

I hope they get at least as much negative press as Delaney out of all of this

givyjoe · 17-04-2019 07:57AM

Cyrus wrote: »

Ok what accounting degree did he do ? I have no idea but you must know ?

And where has he pled ignorance ?

If you can’t see deloittes actions for what they are it says if all really

See above, for JD's career path. Delaney with his obvious accounting knowledge should have long known of the problems with the books, AND taken action. You would have thought that the need for a 100k loan might prompt JD to take a closer look, but no no, it's all the external auditors fault? Like I said originally, youre looking for a way to to deflect away from Delaney.

The responsibility for improper books is with the fai's accountants and JD, not the external auditors.

John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

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