Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

SBSwords · 12-04-2019 04:16PM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Price is ridiculously high, tell em to deck off.

Thanks, would you mind PMing me who you went with?

SBSwords · 12-04-2019 04:24PM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Price is ridiculously high, tell em to deck off.

For 600 euro more, I got a 6kwp solar, 5kwh battery, eddi hot water diverter, essential load wiring, and ber included. Your person quoting you is overcharging you by thousands, and on that basis alone I would refuse to deal with them

Thanks. What I'm finding hard to understand is what might make sense for my setup, then I can go looking for best price. Should I be going for 3kw panels and a 5kw battery, or something less for example. There's no hot water tank in my setup so at least that rules out the hot water diverter.

conor_mc · 12-04-2019 05:07PM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Price is ridiculously high, tell em to deck off.

For 600 euro more, I got a 6kwp solar, 5kwh battery, eddi hot water diverter, essential load wiring, and ber included. Your person quoting you is overcharging you by thousands, and on that basis alone I would refuse to deal with them

Just an update on your vendor wexfordman2, I got in touch with them after you sent me their details and the quote I got wasn’t near as good as yours, which was disappointing. I’ll post details later.

wexfordman2 · 12-04-2019 05:14PM

SBSwords wrote: »

Thanks. What I'm finding hard to understand is what might make sense for my setup, then I can go looking for best price. Should I be going for 3kw panels and a 5kw battery, or something less for example. There's no hot water tank in my setup so at least that rules out the hot water diverter.

I only mentioned the eddi to give an idea of the price difference. To be fair , perhaps the company that quoted you did so because 3kw 8s the max space you would have available on your roof, so that mat be what they have based the size on, and that limitation may be what you are stuck with (but not the price).

wexfordman2 · 12-04-2019 05:15PM

conor_mc wrote: »

Just an update on your vendor wexfordman2, I got in touch with them after you sent me their details and the quote I got wasn’t near as good as yours, which was disappointing. I’ll post details later.

That's disappointing, but the looks of it prices seem.to be increasing overall, I wonder what the justification is (if there is one).

I think seai should he doing more work on this and giving sample.pric8ng or average price per kw installed, they have all the figures via the grant system..

AidenL · 12-04-2019 07:38PM

Ordered the Nightsaver meter today, being fitted next Tuesday.

AidenL · 12-04-2019 07:41PM

unkel wrote: »

That's interesting. So the essential loads AC output of the inverter gets powered from the grid unless the grid is down?

I could then actually use my outside socket for say a 2kW power washer without having to worry about the battery (and emptying it in no time)

KCross wrote: »

Yes, you would need to be careful. Something as simple as someone boiling a kettle could be enough to trip the whole thing over the edge.

Personally i wouldn’t take the chance. I’d put 3 or 4 specific sockets on the circuit and the lights and leave it at that. The potential to mess it up is too high imo.

And as unkel has said, for the number of times you’d need it is it worth risking it, even if a spark is willing to wire it that way for you?

Whats the procedure for providing for essential load wiring from the battery?

Is it just one socket, which extension leads are then run from?

Or it it a matter of selecting a number of sockets in the house to be powered?

Can lights also be included? With 6watt led bulbs, quite a bit of light could be provided in a house I imagine.

Can the boiler and pumps be included?

Alf Veedersane · 12-04-2019 07:42PM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

That's disappointing, but the looks of it prices seem.to be increasing overall, I wonder what the justification is (if there is one).

I think seai should he doing more work on this and giving sample.pric8ng or average price per kw installed, they have all the figures via the grant system..

Probably more the remit of Competition & Consumer Protection Commission, tbf

niallers1 · 12-04-2019 11:47PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Probably more the remit of Competition & Consumer Protection Commission, tbf

I think the SEAI might be partly to blame for any increase. The amount of hoops they make installers jump through was an eye opener to me.

Alf Veedersane · 12-04-2019 11:56PM

niallers1 wrote: »

I think the SEAI might be partly to blame for any increase. The amount of hoops they make installers jump through was an eye opener to me.

What hoops?

There's probably a fear of being too loose that they can be blamed but if it's anything like the guff I heard coming from insulation contractors who blamed them for cost increases then the only blame is with the contractor/installer.

But that's separate to PV so just curious.

unkel · 13-04-2019 12:31AM

AidenL wrote: »

Whats the procedure for providing for essential load wiring from the battery?

Is it just one socket, which extension leads are then run from?

Or it it a matter of selecting a number of sockets in the house to be powered?

Can lights also be included? With 6watt led bulbs, quite a bit of light could be provided in a house I imagine.

Can the boiler and pumps be included?

There is no one procedure. All of what you mention can be done. On the one extreme you could have your house rewired to have lights and say your oil / gas boiler and say a few essential sockets forming its own essential load system. On the other extreme, you could have a very simply approach and just wire one wall socket to the AC essential load output of your inverter (like I'm doing)

SBSwords · 13-04-2019 08:45AM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

I only mentioned the eddi to give an idea of the price difference. To be fair , perhaps the company that quoted you did so because 3kw 8s the max space you would have available on your roof, so that mat be what they have based the size on, and that limitation may be what you are stuck with (but not the price).

Thanks for that. Got another crowd coming out on Mon to take a look.

AidenL · 13-04-2019 12:37PM

unkel wrote: »

There is no one procedure. All of what you mention can be done. On the one extreme you could have your house rewired to have lights and say your oil / gas boiler and say a few essential sockets forming its own essential load system. On the other extreme, you could have a very simply approach and just wire one wall socket to the AC essential load output of your inverter (like I'm doing)

Does that rewiring run in parallel to the main wiring? Or some kind of switchover at the panel to use the existing wiring?

wexfordman2 · 13-04-2019 12:43PM

AidenL wrote: »

Does that rewiring run in parallel to the main wiring? Or some kind of switchover at the panel to use the existing wiring?

I am getting.mine done in the next week or 2, but my understanding is that it can be presented as a single.socket wired from the inverter, or else it runs to a separate.consumer board, where you can move a number of circuits over to.

I am not an electrician, but I understand there are certain safety regualtu8ns which means it needs to be presented in a separate consumer unit if you are wiring multiple.corcu8ts to it.

Need to be really.carefull with this stuff, as effectively.once you have this done, powering off the main fuse board, you still have love mains in the house, ot can be deceiving.

niallers1 · 13-04-2019 02:17PM

In the Solis hybrid inverter you can run a socket from it very easily by the look of it. Haven't done it yet. Unlikely to need it as power cuts are rare here and if we do get them they're normally fixed within a few hours.

Rodstar028 · 16-04-2019 02:15PM

Regarding some of the above issues I have just fitted a system in recent days so I am just posting as an update for people
3.9kw of Denim glass on glass 35 year warranty panels
5kw solis hybrid inverter with simple three pin connection for single socket which is automaticlly only powered up during power cut after 3 min time delay.
5.8kw of battery.
eddi hot water diverter also included.
BER cert included.
all fixings in stainless all brackets in stainless, supports for panels in aluminium.
Price was agreed at 10,700 euro incl vat and a grant of 3,750 euro now to be received.

SBSwords · 16-04-2019 04:16PM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

perhaps the company that quoted you did so because 3kw 8s the max space you would have available on your roof, so that mat be what they have based the size on, and that limitation may be what you are stuck with (but not the price).

Just had a 2nd company out to quote.

So given space available on roof, EV charging requirement, & no requirement for hot water diverter they quoted for:
- 2.4kw 8 panels denim glass
- 5.9kw battery
- BER cert included
Price of €9,200 incl VAT with a grant of €2,680 to be claimed from SEAI.
So €6,500.

Welcome any PMs for other companies to contact.

unkel · 16-04-2019 09:16PM

It's a pity you can't fit more. The additional subsidy of €700 per kWh fitted is more than it actually cost to fit them. So it actually subsidises the rest of the system. The bigger you go, the better deal you get

If your main roof is full, have you any kitchen extension or garage? If not, have you any space for a ground mounted array of 4 or 5 panels?

SBSwords · 17-04-2019 08:28AM

unkel wrote: »

It's a pity you can't fit more. The additional subsidy of €700 per kWh fitted is more than it actually cost to fit them. So it actually subsidises the rest of the system. The bigger you go, the better deal you get

If your main roof is full, have you any kitchen extension or garage? If not, have you any space for a ground mounted array of 4 or 5 panels?

Unfortunately not - I've got a small kitchen lean-to roof which might be big enough for a single panel - but installer wasn't keen. Small suburban garden with a lot of shade - so not ideal either for something ground mounted.

As a quote is this reasonable given my constraints?

unkel · 17-04-2019 08:55AM

SBSwords wrote: »

As a quote is this reasonable given my constraints?

Lithium batteries are still very expensive. Your battery is bigger than what is normally fitted to a relatively small array like yours. Did the installer give any reason for the sizing? I'd get a quote with a battery half that size and then post back here.

SBSwords · 17-04-2019 02:01PM

unkel wrote: »

Lithium batteries are still very expensive. Your battery is bigger than what is normally fitted to a relatively small array like yours. Did the installer give any reason for the sizing? I'd get a quote with a battery half that size and then post back here.

Extra sizing was taking into account charging the Phev in the evenings when I get back from work, & the fact I've got a combi boiler so no hot water storage to divert excess energy to (other then back to the grid foc).

unkel · 17-04-2019 02:14PM

The extra battery could very well cost you more per kWh over the lifetime of the system than just buying the electricity from the grid at night rate. Unless you very regularly need to go out again in the evening for fairly long trips after you come home from work?

I would install a smaller battery and perhaps in a few years time when batteries cost much less than they cost today, add a battery (that's a very simple job in most systems)

antoinolachtnai · 17-04-2019 05:07PM

Buying a battery to charge another battery is unlikely to be cost-effective, but you need to do the sums!

The way this usually works out is that the cost of getting 1kWh into the battery and back out is around 10c, assuming there is no additional cost for the electricity and it would have gone to waste otherwise.

If this is more than what night rate electricity costs, then you have to question whether the whole thing really makes sense.

unkel · 17-04-2019 06:30PM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The way this usually works out is that the cost of getting 1kWh into the battery and back out is around 10c, assuming there is no additional cost for the electricity and it would have gone to waste otherwise.

It's not as simple as that as there is now a subsidy of €1000 for installing a battery. Most people are buying a complete solar system and the extra cost of installing a battery is maybe one hour labour, it's very straight forward. Plus the cost of the battery plus the additional cost of a hybrid inverter over a normal inverter. For a small battery (2.4kWh) we are talking roughly €2k here gross, so €1k after the grant

It makes a lot of sense to do this if you are going the grant route

Adding extra battery on top, you pay the full going rate which is not cheap. I agree with you that it probably costs more to load it (even with free solar PV that would otherwise go to waste) than to buy at night rate from the grid

quentingargan · 17-04-2019 06:37PM

unkel wrote: »

Adding extra battery on top, you pay the full going rate which is not cheap. I agree with you that it probably costs more to load it (even with free solar PV that would otherwise go to waste) than to buy at night rate from the grid

Yes - you pay the full going rate for second and subsequent batteries, but the first battery is, say, €2k including inverter and extra labour. Further batteries are less than €1k each, so your second battery costs you about the same as the first.

The difference is that you will cycle the first battery a lot more. Many nights you won't use the contents of two batteries, and many days you won't fill them either.

But also, there is a current limit typically of 1.2kw per battery, so your inverter is somewhat under-utilised if you only have one battery

antoinolachtnai · 17-04-2019 06:42PM

Well, yes, you need to work it out taking the cost after grants into account.

1000 euros for the battery, and you have a life of 10 years, that is 3650 cycles of the battery. (let's assume that we always have enough sun to fill the battery.

If the battery is 2.4 kWh (it may only be feasible to discharge up to 2 kWh/night, but let's leave that) then the total kWh the battery will store over its life is 8760 kWh.

1000 euros / 8760 kWh = .11 euros / kWh.

That seems like a high enough price to store a kWh when you can buy nighttime electricity from the grid for a bit less than that.

If you are using it to replace daytime-price electricity it is fair enough value. But if you are using it to replace stuff that could have been done at night, then tread carefully.

Of course, if the battery lasts longer, you will do better.

Maybe the numbers will work better with a bigger battery? I suppose it depends if you can fill it every day.

niallers1 · 17-04-2019 08:38PM

My experience so far (since Mid september) with the 4.2kw PV east west panels (1.8kw East & 2.4kw west) and two 2.4kw Pylontech batteries- November/December and January you will not fill the batteries most days but for other months in the year you can fill them most days.

My electricity usage from the grid since mid september has been 1084 kwh - Exactly 7 months.
Usage since Feb 28 to April 13th has been 75 units from the grid. 75/6 weeks is 12.5kwh a week from the grid or 1.8kwh a day from the grid.
I expect to use even less per day between now and Mid September especially now I am better at using daylight.
You learn to make more use of it on brighter days and hold off on over cast days.

Summer will be painfull looking, giving electricity away for free. If I had my time over I would have installed a diverter. I'm looking out for a cheap solar iboost on UK ebay. I've seen them there go for £180.

gman2k · 17-04-2019 08:47PM

And factor in energy price inflation, and additional carbon taxes into the payback period....

niallers1 · 17-04-2019 08:55PM

gman2k wrote: »

And factor in energy price inflation, and additional carbon taxes into the payback period....

That could be 5% increase each year.

AidenL · 17-04-2019 08:55PM

That’s a great saving.

I’m wavering in whether or not to go ahead, but your detail, along with wexfordmans is very convincing.

The SEAI payback calculator was putting me off.

Did you have it installed in September?

niallers1 wrote: »

My experience so far (since Mid september) with the 4.2kw PV east west panels (1.8kw East & 2.4kw west) and two 2.4kw Pylontech batteries- November/December and January you will not fill the batteries most days but for other months in the year you can fill them most days.

My electricity usage from the grid since mid september has been 1084 kwh - Exactly 7 months.
Usage since Feb 28 to April 13th has been 75 units from the grid. 75/6 weeks is 12.5kwh a week from the grid or 1.8kwh a day from the grid.
I expect to use even less per day between now and Mid September especially now I am better at using daylight.
You learn to make more use of it on brighter days and hold off on over cast days.

Summer will be painfull looking giving electricity away for free. If I had my time over I would have installed a diverter.

Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

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