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Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

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    #6542
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »
    Sorry I did miss it

    The irs have been accused of being political
    The irs have his returns and if the audit is still ongoing then it is safe to say the irs and trumps lawyers are still in discussions if you have carried out audits for revenue on any multinationals you must admit they are complicated by the international aspect
    The irs have his tax returns and if they are released before the irs and trump agree the audit is over and if there is fines penalties and interest due then the narrative is trump is a tax dodger when you must admit many businesses through error and misjudgment face the same issues

    We dont How trump personally is paid. He might be an employee or a company who charges management fees. He might live off a charity
    When you say release personal taxes he probably has minimum but pays payroll taxes corporation taxes and others

    I have never of a Business owner audited by revenue individually it’s not possible the audit would have to include the companies

    OK , so let's accept for the moment that he is indeed under Audit and that whilst nothing legally prevents him from releasing them he doesn't want to as the Audit might change them to some degree or other (he might even be due a refund, who knows??)


    If , as he says he's "always" under Audit , surely they've finished with some of them??

    The IRS are not Auditing every single year of his taxes since the day of his 1st tax payment , which must be 50+ years at least, so there at without question many many years of tax statements that he could release right here , right now without any issue whatsoever.

    So , again - Why won't he??


  • Options
    #6543
    1eg0a3xv7b82of
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭1eg0a3xv7b82of


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    But the IRS have stated that there is no law to stop Trump publishing his own tax returns.

    I mean, think about it? The guy has retweeted loads of stuff without checking but suddenly he cares about this?

    So the real question is why any of his supporters support him in hiding stuff from them?

    As was previously stated, he could easily produce his tax returns up to a certain point. It can't be right that his tax returns from 2015 are still under audit. How is he tax compliant if the IRS are still auditing him?

    The tax is compliant until the irs proves it’s not
    Regardless he does not have to release them and what would they prove anyway
    That he is offshoring you can be sure he is


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    #6544
    peddlelies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭peddlelies


    Barr was very impressive in those hearings I must say. Should have the redacted version of the report in a few days


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    #6545
    1eg0a3xv7b82of
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭1eg0a3xv7b82of


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    OK , so let's accept for the moment that he is indeed under Audit and that whilst nothing legally prevents him from releasing them he doesn't want to as the Audit might change them to some degree or other (he might even be due a refund, who knows??)


    If , as he says he's "always" under Audit , surely they've finished with some of them??

    The IRS are not Auditing every single year of his taxes since the day of his 1st tax payment , which must be 50+ years at least, so there at without question many many years of tax statements that he could release right here , right now without any issue whatsoever.

    So , again - Why won't he??

    Being honest my guess is he does not want his banks to see them
    He had some bankruptcy and he has used foreign banks to raise loans
    The issue could be he provided some creative accounts to raise considerable loans and if those banks see his returns he might have problems.
    Especially if those foreign Banks are based in Russia


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    #6546
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »
    The tax is compliant until the irs proves it’s not
    Regardless he does not have to release them and what would they prove anyway
    That he is offshoring you can be sure he is

    Seriously?

    His entire schtick is that he's this hugely successful unbeatable business guy that has made countless millions and billions of dollars purely on his raw business acumen and his famous "gut"

    His Tax returns would give a very strong insight into whether there was any truth to his entire persona or if it's like a lot of what he says - Bloviation and lies.

    His continued refusal to provide ANY insight into his finances strongly suggests he does not believe that his tax returns will tell a story that would be even remotely flattering.


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    #6547
    Midlife
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭Midlife


    Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »
    The tax is compliant until the irs proves it’s not
    Regardless he does not have to release them and what would they prove anyway
    That he is offshoring you can be sure he is

    Yes, that he is avoiding paying tax. Exactly that.

    I'm not saying he's doing anything illegal. He doesn't need to.

    He just doesn't want it to come out that he's a billionaire that pays less tax than a teacher.


  • Options
    #6548
    1eg0a3xv7b82of
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭1eg0a3xv7b82of


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Seriously?

    His entire schtick is that he's this hugely successful unbeatable business guy that has made countless millions and billions of dollars purely on his raw business acumen and his famous "gut"

    His Tax returns would give a very strong insight into whether there was any truth to his entire persona or if it's like a lot of what he says - Bloviation and lies.

    His continued refusal to provide ANY insight into his finances strongly suggests he does not believe that his tax returns will tell a story that would be even remotely flattering.

    I have given you what I think in my last post


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    #6549
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »
    Being honest my guess is he does not want his banks to see them
    He had some bankruptcy and he has used foreign banks to raise loans
    The issue could be he provided some creative accounts to raise considerable loans and if those banks see his returns he might have problems.
    Especially if those foreign Banks are based in Russia

    So - He lied and cheated to get money and may be heavily in debt to Russian Banks (Banks that are all almost exclusively controlled by Putin cronies).

    And yet you continue to defend him?!?!


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    #6550
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »
    Sorry I did miss it

    The irs have been accused of being political
    The irs have his returns and if the audit is still ongoing then it is safe to say the irs and trumps lawyers are still in discussions if you have carried out audits for revenue on any multinationals you must admit they are complicated by the international aspect
    The irs have his tax returns and if they are released before the irs and trump agree the audit is over and if there is fines penalties and interest due then the narrative is trump is a tax dodger when you must admit many businesses through error and misjudgment face the same issues

    We dont How trump personally is paid. He might be an employee or a company who charges management fees. He might live off a charity
    When you say release personal taxes he probably has minimum but pays payroll taxes corporation taxes and others

    I have never of a Business owner audited by revenue individually it’s not possible the audit would have to include the companies

    I think something is getting lost in translation here.

    Let's start again. Trump has been asked to release his tax returns. His tax returns, his personal tax returns. He is a separate entity to his multitude of companies etc. The IRS have said there is no problem with anyone releasing their tax returns under or audit or no.

    What is the problem with Trump doing this? If he is under audit and the audit subsequently finds the returns must be amended then Trump can release his amended returns. The point is, he would have signed off on his personal tax returns when he/his agents submitted them to the IRS. The detail in the returns was supplied by Trump through his agents. How is Trump releasing his tax returns that he submitted to the IRS a political move by the IRS.

    And yes, audits on directors can happen without an intervention being carried out on the associated companys. Audits are based on risk. If there is no risk, then there is nothing to audit. When you see directors and companies audited together, its because a risk would have been identified between the two entities.

    And yes innocent errors occur all the time along with differences in interpretation of tax law and there are ways open to any entity in assessing those. However none of that has anything to do with Trump releasing his personal tax returns and claiming to be under perpetual audit.


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    #6551
    1eg0a3xv7b82of
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭1eg0a3xv7b82of


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    So - He lied and cheated to get money and may be heavily in debt to Russian Banks (Banks that are all almost exclusively controlled by Putin cronies).

    And yet you continue to defend him?!?!

    Many big businesses do the creative accounting to get loans.
    Many individuals to get loans and mortgages too
    I am only guessing on trump and the loans and the Russia angle
    And if he did this all before becoming president I don’t see an issue
    But if he has continued since becoming president I would find that impossible to defend
    Again I am only guessing


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    #6552
    1eg0a3xv7b82of
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭1eg0a3xv7b82of


    relax carry on wrote: »
    I think something is getting lost in translation here.

    Let's start again. Trump has been asked to release his tax returns. His tax returns, his personal tax returns. He is a separate entity to his multitude of companies etc. The IRS have said there is no problem with anyone releasing their tax returns under or audit or no.

    What is the problem with Trump doing this? If he is under audit and the audit subsequently finds the returns must be amended then Trump can release his amended returns. The point is, he would have signed off on his personal tax returns when he/his agents submitted them to the IRS. The detail in the returns was supplied by Trump through his agents. How is Trump releasing his tax returns that he submitted to the IRS a political move by the IRS.

    And yes, audits on directors can happen without an intervention being carried out on the associated companys. Audits are based on risk. If there is no risk, then there is nothing to audit. When you see directors and companies audited together, its because a risk would have been identified between the two entities.

    And yes innocent errors occur all the time along with differences in interpretation of tax law and there are ways open to any entity in assessing those. However none of that has anything to do with Trump releasing his personal tax returns and claiming to be under perpetual audit.

    If trump is under audit why would he release any tax returns to then release amended returns
    Come on this is the president not the local plumber

    A director that is also an owner cannot be audited without auditing associated companies it’s not possible
    So many directors move money offshore and back again
    Most pay family members and their own expenses and buy cars
    To audit an owner without auditing the company would achieve nothing
    You need to access to the source of the income


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    #6553
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »
    Many big businesses do the creative accounting to get loans.
    Many individuals to get loans and mortgages too
    I am only guessing on trump and the loans and the Russia angle
    And if he did this all before becoming president I don’t see an issue
    But if he has continued since becoming president I would find that impossible to defend
    Again I am only guessing

    So your defence is "Other people do it" and "As long as he isn't still doing it , that's ok" ?

    So , because other people committed crimes and as long as he isn't committing those crimes right now , it's perfectly fine for him to be President of the United States?

    I struggle to comprehend how anyone could rationalise that position..


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    #6554
    Midlife
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭Midlife


    Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »
    If trump is under audit why would he release any tax returns to then release amended returns
    Come on this is the president not the local plumber

    A director that is also an owner cannot be audited without auditing associated companies it’s not possible
    So many directors move money offshore and back again
    Most pay family members and their own expenses and buy cars
    To audit an owner without auditing the company would achieve nothing
    You need to access to the source of the income

    I've read through a lot of your posts there Dookoo and you seem to be just interesting in taking sides on this or backing Trump.

    You've never explained what he deos that's good or why you like him. Just wondering if you could elaborate. Why are you so inspired to come on here and fight his case.

    You don't seem interested in his achievements. Addmittedly I only went back about six pages but you're not posting at all about the things he's doing.

    I'm just wondering why you're so invested in team Trump?


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    #6555
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    everlast75 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/markknoller/status/1115984086223478789?s=19

    Any trump supporter want to step up and try defend this utter hyperbolic and dangerous nonsense?

    That reads like it was scripted by the Russians. This rhetoric brings US facism one step closer.


  • Options
    #6556
    jochenstacker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 390 ✭✭jochenstacker


    Midlife wrote: »
    I've read through a lot of your posts there Dookoo and you seem to be just interesting in taking sides on this or backing Trump.

    You've never explained what he deos that's good or why you like him. Just wondering if you could elaborate. Why are you so inspired to come on here and fight his case.

    You don't seem interested in his achievements. Addmittedly I only went back about six pages but you're not posting at all about the things he's doing.

    I'm just wondering why you're so invested in team Trump?

    A lot of Trump supporters support him for no other reason than that he is sexist, racist, a crook, a liar and especially because he's blatant about it.
    They not only know that the guy is despicable, they are actively cheering for it.
    They don't care about any achievements, but how much hatred and badness he can get away with, locking up children, destroying the environment, sticking it to the liberals, being divisive, talking bad about women, gays and minorities.
    This is why they dismiss any criticism of him with a wave of their hand and a yawn. They only seem totally oblivious and hide behind every excuse in the world about the guy because they know and they think it's great fun to see good, honest people wring their hands and despair at the sheer monstrosity of it all.
    It's like he is the Messiah for bad people.


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    #6557
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Just to clarify, it's 6 years worth of his personal and business tax returns that are being sought.

    No wonder he doesn't want to release them. The image he has cultivated for himself would collapse.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-tax/trump-says-he-will-not-release-his-tax-returns-idUSKCN1RM1SH


  • Options
    #6558
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »
    Many big businesses do the creative accounting to get loans.
    Many individuals to get loans and mortgages too
    I am only guessing on trump and the loans and the Russia angle
    And if he did this all before becoming president I don’t see an issue
    But if he has continued since becoming president I would find that impossible to defend
    Again I am only guessing

    Honestly, if he was in such a fiscal position even prior to his presidency. That's a good enough reason for all presidencies to release their taxes. Generally such fiscal vulnerability would exclude any citizen from access to intelligence info as it opens them for blackmail.

    But to be honest, it seems you're intent on justifying all of Trump's behaviour. Eg you've recently claimed his father may in fact be German.


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    #6559
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    jochenstacker wrote: »
    A lot of Trump supporters support him for no other reason than that he is sexist, racist, a crook, a liar and especially because he's blatant about it.
    They not only know that the guy is despicable, they are actively cheering for it.
    They don't care about any achievements, but how much hatred and badness he can get away with, locking up children, destroying the environment, sticking it to the liberals, being divisive, talking bad about women, gays and minorities.
    This is why they dismiss any criticism of him with a wave of their hand and a yawn. They only seem totally oblivious and hide behind every excuse in the world about the guy because they know and they think it's great fun to see good, honest people wring their hands and despair at the sheer monstrosity of it all.
    It's like he is the Messiah for bad people.

    I wonder will his presidency see fewer people killed than any since 2001?

    Non Americans are people too.

    It’s actually hard to say because he is very anti-Iran and he might start that all off again. Trump’s foreign policy is all over the place.


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    #6560
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    So - He lied and cheated to get money and may be heavily in debt to Russian Banks (Banks that are all almost exclusively controlled by Putin cronies).

    And yet you continue to defend him?!?!

    Is this the new Russian angle?


  • Options
    #6561
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,371 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    everlast75 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/markknoller/status/1115984086223478789?s=19

    Any trump supporter want to step up and try defend this utter hyperbolic and dangerous nonsense?
    When you are trying to sneak a coup yourself accuse the opposition of doing so. Straight from the dictator's playbook.


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    #6562
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,343 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    I wonder will his presidency see fewer people killed than any since 2001?

    Non Americans are people too.

    It’s actually hard to say because he is very anti-Iran and he might start that all off again. Trump’s foreign policy is all over the place.

    Already more civilians killed in 2 years than 8 years of Obama https://www.newsweek.com/president-trumps-isis-war-course-double-obamas-civilian-deaths-637538
    https://www.newsweek.com/civilian-casualties-rise-164-percent-yemen-war-1140243

    And now Trump no longer wants to report deaths http://time.com/5546366/trump-cancels-drone-strike-rule/

    Amazing US media is no longer interested in drone strikes despite a massive increase since 2017


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    #6563
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    Already more civilians killed in 2 years than 8 years of Obama https://www.newsweek.com/president-trumps-isis-war-course-double-obamas-civilian-deaths-637538
    https://www.newsweek.com/civilian-casualties-rise-164-percent-yemen-war-1140243

    And now Trump no longer wants to report deaths http://time.com/5546366/trump-cancels-drone-strike-rule/

    Amazing US media is no longer interested in drone strikes despite a massive increase since 2017

    They never reported Yemen. In fact I bet that Newsweek and Time might well have mentioned for the first time in the Trump era. America’s left is an inward looking self-absorbed mess.

    It wasn’t just Yemen though - which was a war crime for both presidents - but Libya and Syria. And Obama could have decided to stay out of Yemen.

    Probably no president of the US can do what he wants - the military is a state within a state.

    Both Obama and Trump ran on anti war positions and neither can rein it in.


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    #6564
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Karsyn Tender Rifle wrote: »
    Firstly is trump even being audited? Has this been debunked? No
    Secondly has I have posted here many times if the audit is still ongoing why would he?

    Can posters here deal with these questions honestly

    We only have his word that he is being audited so it's probably nonsense. I posted what I did to point out that the excuse he was using about being audited preventing the release of his returns and repeated by others here was nonsense.


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    #6565
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    So - He lied and cheated to get money and may be heavily in debt to Russian Banks (Banks that are all almost exclusively controlled by Putin cronies).

    And yet you continue to defend him?!?!
    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Is this the new Russian angle?

    I don't think there's anything new about the concern that his apparent heavy debt exposure to Russian Banks is a concern in terms of his objectivity when it comes to things like Russian sanctions etc.


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    #6566
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    So your defence is "Other people do it" and "As long as he isn't still doing it , that's ok" ?

    So , because other people committed crimes and as long as he isn't committing those crimes right now , it's perfectly fine for him to be President of the United States?

    I struggle to comprehend how anyone could rationalise that position..

    When you're all-in on Trump, mental gymnastics becomes your new area of expertise.

    I'm not joking. Trump is a lowlife in so many ways that in order to support him, one needs to lower the bar so far so that Trump is always above that bar. Unfortunately, when you support Trump, his enemies need to be taken down which means they have to be judged against a high bar. This leads to absurdities like poor email security and pay-for-play being a huge issue for people like Clinton while at the same time, it's a nothingburger or it's being smart when Trump is at it.

    In order to maintain such an absurd position, you need to become very adept at such gymnastics and any proper Trump follower figures this out.


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    #6567
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Is this the new Russian angle?

    For those of us who have kept informed and can remember farther back than two weeks ago, Russian loans have always been an angle. I understand your desire to portray this as something new but when Russian money has been such a central part of the allegations against Trump for so long, it gives your game away.


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    #6568
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,237 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Assange arrested apparently!


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    #6569
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,389 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Assange arrested apparently!

    Yup. Literally carried out of the Embassy after the Ambassador invited the police to come get him. Wouldn't be surprised to see him extradited to the US, but what might happen after that would be anyone's guess. Given Assange's links to Roger Stone and the hacking of the DNC emails, could have a big influence on that case.


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    #6570
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,237 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    https://twitter.com/AP/status/1116286522175754241?s=19

    One wonders why they have a particular concern here...


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    #6571
    1eg0a3xv7b82of
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭1eg0a3xv7b82of


    The assange arrest has been organized by someone
    Would not be surprised if this trumps doing a deal cut to bring down the democrat party for once and all


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