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Where's the deterrent for shіthead scumbags in society?

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Comments

  • #182
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    El_Bee wrote: »
    What works in one country wont necessarily work in another, as people have stated in the thread there is very poor social cohesion in Ireland, especially Dublin. And if we scratch the surface of the so-called utopias in scandinavia, they are experiences growing problems that their lenient and rehabilitation-led systems cant seem to address. As far as what we leave our kids, lets look at what they're seeing in my area for example, open air drug dealing, joyriding cars and motorbikes, anti-social behaviour, and absolutely no repercussions for it, none, zero.


    https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/girl-attack-woodstown-dublin-gardai-16095063


    is the current system working?

    What role does social cohesion play in criminality


  • #183
    Yurt2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    What role does social cohesion play in criminality

    There is a strong correlation between a country's Gini coefficient and crime, across countries and cultures. From the Economist...

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/06/07/the-stark-relationship-between-income-inequality-and-crime


  • #184
    El_Bee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    What role does social cohesion play in criminality


    I have to imagine you're trolling at this stage.


  • #185
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    El_Bee wrote: »
    I have to imagine you're trolling at this stage.

    I'm not. I wanted to know if you thought social cohesion was an Important factor in crime.

    So you've identified a factor in predicting crime which you already knew, and still you're only interested in spending money on locking people up.

    The example you brought up (and there are plenty more) is a lever on criminality. Why not start there? It would be an investment in preventing crime for ourselves and future generations.

    It's a matter of priorities. If we tell politicians we'll give them political cover to invest money in fixing the problems that lead to crime, then they might do it. Likewise if we tell politicians we'll give them political cover to invest money in prisons to paper over the cracks and let future generations deal with the consequences, then they might do that instead.

    It's up to you to decide which you would prefer.


  • #186
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Isn't it interesting that the discussion stopped when an alternative was suggested to just waiting for crimes and locking people up?

    We'll have to wait for the next "justice system is a joke" thread and the same characters can pretend there is no alternative to harsher sentences. Sad but that's a the way it is.


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  • #187
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Isn't it interesting that the discussion stopped when an alternative was suggested to just waiting for crimes and locking people up?

    We'll have to wait for the next "justice system is a joke" thread and the same characters can pretend there is no alternative to harsher sentences. Sad but that's a the way it is.

    You should join the judiciary while you're waiting.


  • #188
    El_Bee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Isn't it interesting that the discussion stopped when an alternative was suggested to just waiting for crimes and locking people up?

    We'll have to wait for the next "justice system is a joke" thread and the same characters can pretend there is no alternative to harsher sentences. Sad but that's a the way it is.


    You're clearly trying to bait people.


  • #189
    jimbobaloobob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,153 ✭✭✭jimbobaloobob


    I only read back on the last two pages. I think if we look at the lock em up attitude in the USA it's safe to say it's not working. What are the alternatives though to 'rehang' these criminals and more inportantly male victims feel safe?


  • #190
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    El_Bee wrote: »
    You're clearly trying to bait people.

    Bait people into what? A discussion about what might be better than simply waiting for crimes and locking people up? God forbid


  • #191
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Hal3000 wrote: »
    You should join the judiciary while you're waiting.

    Thanks. Chance would be a fine thing.


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  • #192
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    2 more aggravated burglaries today. Be interested to see the sentencing if they get caught. Light slap on the wrist no doubt. Our sentencing is totally screwed up.


  • #193
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Hal3000 wrote: »
    2 more aggravated burglaries today. Be interested to see the sentencing if they get caught. Light slap on the wrist no doubt. Our sentencing is totally screwed up.

    What would be an appropriate sentence in your opinion?


  • #194
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    What would be an appropriate sentence in your opinion?

    For aggravated burgarlies of 80 year olds? 10 years minimum.


  • #195
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    For aggravated burgarlies of 80 year olds? 10 years minimum.

    How did you arrive at that conclusion?


  • #196
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    How did you arrive at that conclusion?

    The destruction and terrorising of people at the end of their life? Deliberate violence on the weakest of society. Vicious attacks on the old.

    I might have been too lenient.


  • #197
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    The destruction and terrorising of people at the end of their life? Deliberate violence on the weakest of society. Vicious attacks on the old.

    I might have been too lenient.

    I get That it's a crime. I'm asking how you arrived at an appropriate punishment


  • #198
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    I get That it's a crime. I'm asking how you arrived at an appropriate punishment

    I thought 5 years too small and 20 too large.

    10 would only be 6 in Irish prison terms anyway.


  • #199
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    What would be an appropriate sentence in your opinion?

    10 to 15 years . And for you, let me guess. 3 with 2 suspended.....


  • #200
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    We could do with about twenty five years of dictatorship in this country, we are not a people like the nordics where civic mindedness is an intrinsic part of our culture, the scum are emboldened by our softly softly approach.

    First thing I'd like to see is every bleeding heart QUANGO proscribed.


  • #201
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,548 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    We could do with about twenty five years of dictatorship in this country, we are not a people like the nordics where civic mindedness is an intrinsic part of our culture, the scum are emboldened by our softly softly approach.

    First thing I'd like to see is every bleeding heart QUANGO proscribed.

    wtf!:rolleyes:


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  • #202
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    I thought 5 years too small and 20 too large.

    10 would only be 6 in Irish prison terms anyway.

    OK. I'm not sure you understand the question I'm asking. Why is 5 years too small and 20 too large?

    What's the purpose of the prison sentence in your opinion and how is that purpose achieved by serving 10 years in prison?


  • #203
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,711 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    OK. I'm not sure you understand the question I'm asking. Why is 5 years too small and 20 too large?

    What's the purpose of the prison sentence in your opinion and how is that purpose achieved by serving 10 years in prison?

    Surely the purpose of the length of the prison sentence is as a deterrent to the offender from committing the crime?
    And surely the longer the sentence the bigger the deterrent?

    Isn't that pretty much what this thread is about?


  • #204
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Hal3000 wrote: »
    10 to 15 years . And for you, let me guess. 3 with 2 suspended.....

    And how did you conclude that 10 to 15 years is the best sentence? Whats the purpose of the sentence and how is it achieved by serving 10 to 15 years?
    Walk me through the logic you're using.


  • #205
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Surely the purpose of the length of the prison sentence is as a deterrent to the offender from committing the crime?
    And surely the longer the sentence the bigger the deterrent?

    Isn't that pretty much what this thread is about?

    If that was the case wouldn't the sentence be tailored to the likelihood of recidivism rather than the severity of the actual crime?


  • #206
    Ush1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    If that was the case wouldn't the sentence be tailored to the likelihood of recidivism rather than the severity of the actual crime?

    Something tells me that if you're committing violent burglaries, it's not your first rodeo.


  • #207
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,711 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    If that was the case wouldn't the sentence be tailored to the likelihood of recidivism rather than the severity of the actual crime?

    Absolutely not.

    But that doesn't mean that the current sentencing "just" takes the severity of the crime into account.


  • #208
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Ush1 wrote: »
    Something tells me that if you're committing violent burglaries, it's not your first rodeo.

    Is that the only reason you can think of for asking people for their logic for sentencing?

    On yeah. I'm big in the burglary scene alright 🙄

    The logic from the two people who suggested an appropriate sentence seems to be just spunk out a number of years off the top of their head as an appropriate sentence. I think we can do better than that.


  • #209
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Absolutely not.

    But that doesn't mean that the current sentencing "just" takes the severity of the crime into account.

    In your ideal system wouldn't that be the way it's done though? The sentence should deter the person from committing the same crime again so it should be linked to the likelihood of recidivism rather than the actual crime itself?


  • #210
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,711 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    In your ideal system wouldn't that be the way it's done though? The sentence should deter the person from committing the same crime again so it should be linked to the likelihood of recidivism rather than the actual crime itself?

    No. completely incorrect.

    The sentence should be a deterrent for comitting the crime in the first instance.


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  • #211
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    OK. I'm not sure you understand the question I'm asking. Why is 5 years too small and 20 too large?

    What's the purpose of the prison sentence in your opinion and how is that purpose achieved by serving 10 years in prison?

    The purpose is to remove the threat to other people, ten years also offers the wrongdoer more time to think on their sins


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