Who is/was Ireland's most famous sports star?

08-04-2019 5:52pm

TomasMacR wrote: »

This argument is getting tiresome. ‘The population is massive and they play cricket there so they definitely know who Eoin Morgan is’. I’m just as entitled to say your average Indian or Pakistani couldn’t even name a player from their own home team. Who knows how well known he is, it’s pure speculation.

It's not speculation at all. Indians are nuts about cricket. The ICC Champions final between India and Pakistan had nearly 500 million TV viewers and a Kolkata Knight Riders game (who Morgan used to play for) would have a viewing audience of around 30 million. When the Indian Premier League comes along, India goes mad about it the way we go mad when it is six nations time, probably more so.

And yes, if you ask any teenage Indian girl to name one of their team, they will all say Virat Kohli, because most of them have his picture on their bedroom wall.

TomasMacR wrote: »

He’s not a single decent endorsement/advertising contract from what I’ve just looked up. A cringeworthy ‘Captain Morgan’ Rum ambassador...humiliating stuff which can’t be worth much. That’s a fairly good indicator of who is well known, if he had these millions of Asians that everyone is claiming they know who he is he’d be all over billboards and TV branding products that didn’t make look like even more of sell out tosser. ‘captain morgan’ f*ck sake.

he doesn't do any endorsements or advertising, not even in England where he captains the white ball teams.

TomasMacR · 08-04-2019 6:21pm

Aegir wrote: »

It's not speculation at all. Indians are nuts about cricket. The ICC Champions final between India and Pakistan had nearly 500 million TV viewers and a Kolkata Knight Riders game (who Morgan used to play for) would have a viewing audience of around 30 million. When the Indian Premier League comes along, India goes mad about it the way we go mad when it is six nations time, probably more so.

And yes, if you ask any teenage Indian girl to name one of their team, they will all say Virat Kohli, because most of them have his picture on their bedroom wall.

So going by that logic the hundreds of millions of fans a that watch the top Bollywood actor, which if were all honest, we couldn’t name one, but he or she would be more famous than most American or UK actor.

he doesn't do any endorsements or advertising, not even in England where he captains the white ball teams.

What’s this muck so?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-4484104/England-captain-Eoin-Morgan-deal-Captain-Morgan.html

If that’s what he’s willing to do, I doubt he’s being offered much else.

xckjoo · 08-04-2019 6:40pm

TomasMacR wrote: »

So going by that logic the hundreds of millions of fans a that watch the top Bollywood actor, which if were all honest, we couldn’t name one, but he or she would be more famous than most American or UK actor.

Yup. Fame being measured by the number of people that would recognise them worldwide. What other measure would you use? Number of countries they'd be recognised in might be an alternative I guess

gormdubhgorm · 08-04-2019 7:01pm

TomasMacR wrote: »

This argument is getting tiresome. ‘The population is massive and they play cricket there so they definitely know who Eoin Morgan is’. I’m just as entitled to say your average Indian or Pakistani couldn’t even name a player from their own home team. Who knows how well known he is, it’s pure speculation. He’s not a single decent endorsement/advertising contract from what I’ve just looked up. A cringeworthy ‘Captain Morgan’ Rum ambassador...humiliating stuff which can’t be worth much. That’s a fairly good indicator of who is well known, if he had these millions of Asians that everyone is claiming they know who he is he’d be all over billboards and TV branding products that didn’t make look like even more of sell out tosser. ‘captain morgan’ f*ck sake.

Well in fairness he was mentioned in india.com
https://www.india.com/topic/eoin-morgan/

So I looked up the traffic of the site
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/india.com

Globally it is ranked 2000 and in India it is ranked 217.
He must be fairly well known over there in fairness to fella.

TomasMacR · 08-04-2019 8:26pm

xckjoo wrote: »

Yup. Fame being measured by the number of people that would recognise them worldwide. What other measure would you use? Number of countries they'd be recognised in might be an alternative I guess

Yes, it depends on how you define fame, is it by numbers alone that recognise someone? If so then Bollywood stars are probably the most famous people on the planet, even though none of us here know their name. But that's daft. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread I'd probably by Google searches globally...heres Eoin Morgan compared to two others.

See Interest over time on Google Trends for Eoin Morgan, Conor McGregor, Rory Mcilroy - Worldwide, 08/03/2014 - 08/04/2019 - https://trends.google.com/trends/explore/TIMESERIES/1554750600?hl=en-GB&tz=-60&date=2014-03-08+2019-04-08&q=%2Fm%2F0drr9g,%2Fm%2F0rfgxy2,Rory+Mcilroy&sni=3

Morgan does feature in India and Pakistan, 10% to McGregors 90%. And he only features there...so he has some fame there but nothing comparable to McGregor. It's fairly comprehensive who Ireland's most famous sports star is no matter how much we like or dislike him

gormdubhgorm · 08-04-2019 10:33pm

Next time one of those Indian call scammers call about my PC I will ask them who is more famous Conor McGregor or Eoin Morgan

Maybe I will pretend to be Conor or Eoin on the phone and see if they twig it?

Tombo2001 · 09-04-2019 10:05am

TomasMacR wrote: »

This argument is getting tiresome. ‘The population is massive and they play cricket there so they definitely know who Eoin Morgan is’. I’m just as entitled to say your average Indian or Pakistani couldn’t even name a player from their own home team. Who knows how well known he is, it’s pure speculation. He’s not a single decent endorsement/advertising contract from what I’ve just looked up. A cringeworthy ‘Captain Morgan’ Rum ambassador...humiliating stuff which can’t be worth much. That’s a fairly good indicator of who is well known, if he had these millions of Asians that everyone is claiming they know who he is he’d be all over billboards and TV branding products that didn’t make look like even more of sell out tosser. ‘captain morgan’ f*ck sake.

Its not a question of entitled; its a question of informed.

I've spent four months in India, one month in Pakistan.

My experience is
(i) everywhere I went, cricket was the only game I saw people play; and it was played all over India and Pakistan as a street game.
(ii) Yes, not every Indian family has a TV. What they do have however, is sort of Communal TVs. Its a hot country. If a family owns a TV, they might actually keep it outdoors so that if there is a game on, the whole community will sit around and watch. This was a regular sight as one wanders around poorer areas.
(iii) If the Cricket world cup is on - then thats what everyone is watching.
(iv) Anecdotally - Indians are well educated people across the board, and also they are very well informed about Cricket.
(v) He has played several times in the Indian Premier League and is among the highest valued players therein.

https://www.wisden.com/stories/global-t20-leagues/eoin-morgan-ipl-2019-auction

Of course you are entitled to say that an average Indian wouldnt have heard of a player even on their own team.

Equally, i am completely entitled to say that average Argentinean would have no clue who Lionel Messi is. Or that the average Jamaican would not have heard of Usain Bolt. The joy of the internet is that anyone can write down any old crap and make out that its true.

The issue here for me to be honest is not Eoin Morgan, its that people here seem to think - well if he's not famous in rich countries then that doesnt really count......

jmayo · 09-04-2019 11:08am

Marcus Rashford wrote: »

In today’s Irish Times, Brian O’Connor makes the pretty valid point that if Rory McIlroy completes the career Grand Slam this week, it’s the greatest achievement in the history of Irish sport.

Ehh doesn't he have to win them all in the same calendar year for it to be a Grand Slam.

And even Tiger couldn't do that, he won them over two years, 2000 and 2001.

Looking it up Bobby Jones is the only one to manage the actual Grand Slam.
And even then the Masters or PGA weren't included but US and British amateur titles.

Granted if McIlroy does win Masters he joins illustrious club with names like Woods, Nicklaus, Hogan and Player.

Actually what Stephen Roche achieved in 1987 in winning the Triple Crown is probably the single greatest achievement by Irish sportstar in that only one other man has ever managed to do it in one year and that was the great Eddy Merkx.

TomasMacR wrote: »

This argument is getting tiresome. ‘The population is massive and they play cricket there so they definitely know who Eoin Morgan is’. I’m just as entitled to say your average Indian or Pakistani couldn’t even name a player from their own home team. Who knows how well known he is, it’s pure speculation. He’s not a single decent endorsement/advertising contract from what I’ve just looked up. A cringeworthy ‘Captain Morgan’ Rum ambassador...humiliating stuff which can’t be worth much. That’s a fairly good indicator of who is well known, if he had these millions of Asians that everyone is claiming they know who he is he’d be all over billboards and TV branding products that didn’t make look like even more of sell out tosser. ‘captain morgan’ f*ck sake.

Jaysus just because you don't know him, just because his sport is minsicule in this country doesn't mean he cannot be very well known to a huge chunk of people in another part of the world.

The fact you reckon average Indians and Pakistanis possibly can't even name one of their own cricketeers really shows how little you do actually know. :rolleyes:

Deebles McBeebles · 09-04-2019 11:40am

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh doesn't he have to win them all in the same calendar year for it to be a Grand Slam.

It is. I assume Marcus meant a career grand slam, which is still pretty special and a massive achievement.

TomasMacR · 09-04-2019 11:41am

jmayo wrote: »

.

Jaysus just because you don't know him, just because his sport is minsicule in this country doesn't mean he cannot be very well known to a huge chunk of people in another part of the world.

The fact you reckon average Indians and Pakistanis possibly can't even name one of their own cricketeers really shows how little you do actually know. :rolleyes:

That’s not what I said at all...but anyway carry on.

Isn’t this about who the most famous Irish sports person is? It isn’t Eoin Morgan, that is for certain.

TerrorFirmer · 09-04-2019 11:45am

The argument is also stupid because fame is based on a multitude of things. There are actually quite a few Indian cricketeers in 'most famous sports stars' rankings so it's nothing whatsoever to do with 'if he's not famous in rich countries it doesn't count'.

McGregor scores extremely highly in global internet searches for example, among other metrics.

Eoin Morgan is just simply not as globally well known as Conor McGregor. It's just a fact. It's not a slight on Morgan, and no-ones claiming that he's a) not famous and b) not very well known in a certain part of the world.

irelandrover · 09-04-2019 11:53am

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

The argument is also stupid because fame is based on a multitude of things. There are actually quite a few Indian cricketeers in 'most famous sports stars' rankings so it's nothing whatsoever to do with 'if he's not famous in rich countries it doesn't count'.

McGregor scores extremely highly in global internet searches for example, among other metrics.

Eoin Morgan is just simply not as globally well known as Conor McGregor. It's just a fact. It's not a slight on Morgan, and no-ones claiming that he's a) not famous and b) not very well known in a certain part of the world.

Thats actually what i said. McGregor would be known in more countries worldwide. However I still maintain that Morgan is known by more people. The countries he is well known in have massive populations.

So Ireland's most famous sports star would be one of the two but it depends how you define most famous.

TerrorFirmer · 09-04-2019 12:10pm

But you've offered nothing to back that up except pointing out the population of said countries. More people watch cricket than MMA, but McGregor has transcended MMA completely to become a personality first, and a sports star second.

Morgan might have more actual fans granted, but more people around the world know 'of' McGregor. It's nothing to do with fans of the individual or amount of people globally who watch MMA.

He is hands down Ireland's most famous sports star. There isn't even a question of Eoin Morgan.

Basing fame on populations is a flawed argument, your argument is the same as suggesting that a Chinese actress or actor is the most famous in the world simply based on the population of the country even though that's entirely untrue also.

youtheman · 09-04-2019 12:23pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

gurning moron, McGregor.

Have to admit I had to Google the meaning of that word. Sounds great, though !. Real alliteration there.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 09-04-2019 12:28pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

But you've offered nothing to back that up except pointing out the population of said countries. More people watch cricket than MMA, but McGregor has transcended MMA completely to become a personality first, and a sports star second.

Morgan might have more actual fans granted, but more people around the world know 'of' McGregor. It's nothing to do with fans of the individual or amount of people globally who watch MMA.

That's the key point. People generally know who Serena Williams and Tiger Woods are even if they don't follow tennis or golf. Or they know of Mike Tyson even if they've never watched him fight. Like him or loathe him, McGregor is now in that category. People know of him even if they've never watched MMA.

It's completely silly to propose that Eoin Morgan is better known internationally than Conor McGregor. He might have a following among cricket fans in India, but McGregor is known practically everywhere.

salmocab · 09-04-2019 12:30pm

Surely most famous is the person that most people regardless of where they live etc would know who they are.
I’d be fairly confident it’s McGregor. He has made himself recognizable to huge numbers outside of his sport in a way that most sportspeople never will.
A lot of his fame has social media driving it, which has a reach that just being a good competitor in any sport wouldn’t give you.

irelandrover · 09-04-2019 12:36pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

But you've offered nothing to back that up except pointing out the population of said countries. More people watch cricket than MMA, but McGregor has transcended MMA completely to become a personality first, and a sports star second.

Fair enough. I didnt think i actually had to state how popular cricket was in India/ Pakistan.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/183145

This is an article in relation to the ICC T20 2016. England got to the final and Morgan was playing and was captain at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-watched_television_broadcasts

2015 ICC cricket world cup was the 15th most watched sporting event in history with 2.2 billion viewers. Again Morgan was captain of the England team.

On the bolded bit, youve shown nothing to back that up.

Lux23 · 09-04-2019 12:39pm

I'd say it is Conor McGregor. I can't think of anyone else that would be that much of a household name across the globe. I mean, you don't need to have ever seen a UFC match to know who he is.

sbsquarepants · 09-04-2019 1:08pm

I wonder is he soon to knock Larry Murphy off his perch and claim the title of Irelands most famous rapist?

He must be due a win soon I suppose!

Marcus Rashford · 09-04-2019 1:17pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh doesn't he have to win them all in the same calendar year for it to be a Grand Slam.

It is. I assume Marcus meant a career grand slam, which is still pretty special and a massive achievement.

Yep, when Marcus said “career Grand Slam” he meant career Grand Slam

Tombo2001 · 09-04-2019 1:23pm

Lux23 wrote: »

I'd say it is Conor McGregor. I can't think of anyone else that would be that much of a household name across the globe. I mean, you don't need to have ever seen a UFC match to know who he is.

McGregor is famous, but there are very few sports people anywhere or of any type that are 'household names' across the globe.

The only one in my experience who achieved this status would be Michael Jordan.

After that, Messi/ Ronaldo/ Pele/ Maradona/ Usain Bolt......maybe Federer and Serena.

That would be about it.

xckjoo · 09-04-2019 2:07pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

McGregor is famous, but there are very few sports people anywhere or of any type that are 'household names' across the globe.

The only one in my experience who achieved this status would be Michael Jordan.

After that, Messi/ Ronaldo/ Pele/ Maradona/ Usain Bolt......maybe Federer and Serena.

That would be about it.

I've a feeling most people under the age of 30 won't know who Michael Jordan is, but I'm the wrong side of that age to say for definite

. Fame is fickle

partyguinness · 09-04-2019 2:16pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

McGregor is famous, but there are very few sports people anywhere or of any type that are 'household names' across the globe.

The only one in my experience who achieved this status would be Michael Jordan.

After that, Messi/ Ronaldo/ Pele/ Maradona/ Usain Bolt......maybe Federer and Serena.

That would be about it.

Yeah Michael Jordan if you grew up in the mid 80 to mid 90 and sucked in by all the Nike marketing. Nowadays read Kobe Bryant or LeBron James or remember Shaquille O'Neal.

Tom Brady
Bolt
Ali
Tyson
Lewis Hamilton
Tiger Woods
Federer
Venus Williams

TerrorFirmer · 09-04-2019 10:54pm

irelandrover wrote: »

Fair enough. I didnt think i actually had to state how popular cricket was in India/ Pakistan.

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/183145

This is an article in relation to the ICC T20 2016. England got to the final and Morgan was playing and was captain at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-watched_television_broadcasts

2015 ICC cricket world cup was the 15th most watched sporting event in history with 2.2 billion viewers. Again Morgan was captain of the England team.

On the bolded bit, youve shown nothing to back that up.

You are still completely missing the point again.

You're confusing population watching a given sport/sports event, with global fame.

At this point, you're effectively saying that global fame rankings (which include several Indian cricketeers) are wrong, and you know better?

TomasMacR · 10-04-2019 9:05am

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

You are still completely missing the point again.

You're confusing population watching a given sport/sports event, with global fame.

At this point, you're effectively saying that global fame rankings (which include several Indian cricketeers) are wrong, and you know better?

He's also completely missing the fact that the people in these countries with massive populations may actually know very well who both McGregor and Morgan are. This is ignoring also that rates in web search trends in both India and Pakistan are far higher for McGregor.

irelandrover · 10-04-2019 10:45am

I never disputed that McGregor is known in more countries around the world than Morgan. I'm sure lots of people in India and Pakistan know who McGregor is. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

My statement was if you define fame by the amount of countries your known in then its clearly McGregor. If its the amount of people my opinion would be its Morgan. Cricket is massive worldwide but especially popular in a few countries with massive populations and most people who follow cricket would know the captain of the English ODI team.

I'm not saying that's global fame. That wasn't the question asked.

TerrorFirmer · 10-04-2019 11:19am

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but you're pretty much going against established fact.

Fame is not based on number of countries you're known in. What a bizarre metric.

Fame is literally based on the amount of people who know who you are around the globe. The sum total of your reach. Claiming that Eoin Morgan is known by more people globally - no matter how you arrive at that conclusion or what populations you're pointing too - than Conor McGregor is daft.

As I have said before there are literally Indian cricketeers on popular sports fame lists, close to McGregor though they are still ranked below him, though at that point, you could argue either way.

Eoin Morgan is nowhere near any of them in the rankings.

Wrongway1985 · 10-04-2019 11:32am

Why is Eoin Morgan still being discussed despite being Irish he isn't associated with representing Ireland globally at all.

AdamD · 10-04-2019 11:43am

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

But you've offered nothing to back that up except pointing out the population of said countries. More people watch cricket than MMA, but McGregor has transcended MMA completely to become a personality first, and a sports star second.

Morgan might have more actual fans granted, but more people around the world know 'of' McGregor. It's nothing to do with fans of the individual or amount of people globally who watch MMA.

He is hands down Ireland's most famous sports star. There isn't even a question of Eoin Morgan.

Basing fame on populations is a flawed argument, your argument is the same as suggesting that a Chinese actress or actor is the most famous in the world simply based on the population of the country even though that's entirely untrue also.

1 billion Chinese people knowing you is more than 300 million Americans, like it or not.

This entire thread has been too American focused. If you have the Indian market you're more famous than the American, just because our news is Anglo centric doesn't change that fact.

Also google results/social media followings aren't completely telling either. A lot more middle aged men and women are going to know a golfer than McGregor, but they aren't the ones constantly googling them or following them on social media.

Its a very difficult thing to gauge but I don't think many are fully thinking this through. Hadn't thought of him myself but Eoin Morgan seems a decent shout, as does McIlroy and McGregor.

Roy Keane at his peak would have been up there, but not now.

Hoboo · 10-04-2019 11:45am

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Why is Eoin Morgan still being discussed despite being Irish he isn't associated with representing Ireland globally at all.

McGregor doesn't represent ireland either. Nor does McIlroy.

Who is/was Ireland's most famous sports star?

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