Drew Harris armoured jeep flung into the air at Garda HQ

janfebmar · 09-04-2019 11:17PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

If they were there for a meeting, as you put it, they wouldn't have the garda commissioner in their vehicle and they wouldn't have been armed.

I said "It is quite possible they (PSNI) were coming for a meeting, would not be the first such meeting and will not be the last". The Garda Commissioner could have been catching a lift with them on his return from other business in N.I. (be it personal, social or police business, I could not care less). Having a chat with them could shorten the journey for both parties. They are human too. And as regards if they were armed or not, I could not care less, they could have left their weapons in N.I. in another PSNI vehicle near the border and relied on Garda protection while in this state, I do not know.

What clearly should not have happened is the bollard incident damaging the vehicle seriously.

FrancieBrady · 09-04-2019 11:26PM

janfebmar wrote: »

I said "It is quite possible they (PSNI) were coming for a meeting, would not be the first such meeting and will not be the last". The Garda Commissioner could have been catching a lift with them on his return from other business in N.I. (be it personal, social or police business, I could not care less). Having a chat with them could shorten the journey for both parties. They are human too. And as regards if they were armed or not, I could not care less, they could have left their weapons in N.I. in another PSNI vehicle near the border and relied on Garda protection while in this state, I do not know.

What clearly should not have happened is the bollard incident damaging the vehicle seriously.

In all your imagining, you cannot imagine a situation we?re somebody was unprofessional and didn't inform the security team, resulting in the quite imaginable situation were a sentinel had seconds to decide if an approaching vehicle was friend or hostile and opted to follow protocol?

Very simple sequence of events following the first mistake after all.

*They were armed. The Gardai said as much today.

janfebmar · 09-04-2019 11:38PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In all your imagining, you cannot imagine a situation we?re somebody was unprofessional and didn't inform the security team,

I did say the Garda car accompanying the PSNI vehicle should have indicated to HQ they were bring in the Garda Commissioner - so that the guard on duty could smarten up if nothing else. (The boss is coming!).

FrancieBrady wrote: »

resulting in the quite imaginable situation were a sentinel had seconds to decide if an approaching vehicle was friend or hostile and opted to follow protocol?

Protocol should not be to write off friendly law abiding vehicles and leave them perched on top of bollards.. If the PSNI damaged cars like that they were unsure of you would be the first to complain.

FrancieBrady · 09-04-2019 11:42PM

janfebmar wrote: »

I did say the Garda car accompanying the PSNI vehicle should have indicated to HQ they were bring in the Garda Commissioner - so that the guard on duty could smarten up if nothing else. (The boss is coming!).

Protocol should not be to write off friendly law abiding vehicles and leave them perched on top of bollards.. If the PSNI damaged cars like that they were unsure of you would be the first to complain.

What?

The police force before the PSNI shot the occupants of cars (usually bored children) if the mood took them.

If you think a vehicle is hostile, you take action and ask questions later.

The responsibility for the vehicle's safety is with the occupants who should have ensured the plans they changed were transmitted to the relevant people.

janfebmar · 09-04-2019 11:55PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you think a vehicle is hostile, you take action and ask questions later.

The PSNI vehicle was not hostile. It was containing the Garda Commissioner, no less, how could it be hostile? The Gardai said it was just going at walking pace. To stop such a vehicle for further investigation / questioning should not require extensive damage to the vehicle. Was the unmarked Garda car stopped to see if all was well, the occupants were genuine and the purpose of its journey?

JohnnyFlash · 10-04-2019 12:00AM

And now over to Francis for the weather.

GMSA · 10-04-2019 12:06AM

That'll buff right out.

Atlantic Dawn · 10-04-2019 12:11AM

This could be all cleared up by releasing the CCTV.

FrancieBrady · 10-04-2019 12:11AM

janfebmar wrote: »

The PSNI vehicle was not hostile. It was containing the Garda Commissioner, no less, how could it be hostile? The Gardai said it was just going at walking pace. To stop such a vehicle for further investigation / questioning should not require extensive damage to the vehicle. Was the unmarked Garda car stopped to see if all was well, the occupants were genuine and the purpose of its journey?

How did the sentinel know it wasn't? Have you access to the communication logs?

She was expecting the Garda car with the Commissioner inside. The Commissioner changed that plan.

:rolleyes:

Irishguy44 · 10-04-2019 12:19AM

An official complaint has been made to GSOC on Monday afternoon and the Garda Commissioner was aware of the complaint. The complaint asks Gsoc to investigate 2 things as a matter of public interest

1) investigate what happened at the Garda hq gate, was button pressed? Was it just malfunction.

2) why were psni officers and a psni Jeep used and were they armed, was protocols followed? Why did the commissioner want or have to stay in the Jeep at border.

On Tuesday the gardai announced it was a malfunction bollard after they realized GSOC were involved.

Nobody knows what happened because whatever happened was kept private by the gardai, this is why people believe something sinister happened as they didn’t announce it when it happened.

As a result of the gardai not releasing the details a whole array of theories have evolved, we have theories that the gardai in general were annoyed that drew used the psni so it was a deliberate act to send a message to drew at how happy the gardai are with their new commissioner. We have a theory that he is a British spy. We have a theory the car was speeding up, flipped and overturned, we have theories that drew doesn’t get along with the force and avoids using his armed guard whenever he can. We have theories they were armed psni officers and unarmed.

If Gsoc are independent they will get to the bottom of it but probably won’t be allowed investigate or won’t get cooperation.

If procedures were not followed and drew should not have been in that Jeep with psni officers then the insurance company won’t pay out either.

The Northern Ireland police ombudsman has also been asked to investigate and Karen Bradley the NI secretary has been asked to explain why a psni Jeep carrying the Irish Garda Commissioner was in Dublin and possibly written off.

I’m sure there are more theories out there but the reason everyone thinks something more to this then there might be is because the gardai and justice minister haven’t been forthcoming so it’s their own fault.

Gsoc if they investigate will get access to cctv footage

Amazing how not one pic of the Jeep has emerged tho....

My own theory, a very unprofessional decision made by drew to use psni vehicle, he realized this only after the incident and a cover up began hoping it wouldn’t emerge in the media and now it’s viral

I’d say Leo is delighted and Simon Harris cause nobody talking about Kylie letters or children’s hospitals

janfebmar · 10-04-2019 12:31AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How did the sentinel know it wasn't?

It is her job to establish the identity and purpose of each vehicle that visits. She badly damaged the vehicle her own boss was in. Big mistake.

FrancieBrady · 10-04-2019 12:37AM

janfebmar wrote: »

It is her job to establish the identity and purpose of each vehicle that visits. She badly damaged the vehicle her own boss was in. Big mistake.

:D:D:D :rolleyes:

Irishguy44 · 10-04-2019 12:40AM

janfebmar wrote: »

It is her job to establish the identity and purpose of each vehicle that visits. She badly damaged the vehicle her own boss was in. Big mistake.

According to the gardai the bollard malfunctioned it wasn’t pressed therefore she didn’t do any damage the new bollard did. The big mistake was the gardai describing the event initially as the button was pressed and on Tuesday after the gardai learned Gsoc were involved they announced it was a malfunction.

janfebmar · 10-04-2019 12:46AM

Irishguy44 wrote: »

According to the gardai the bollard malfunctioned it wasn’t pressed therefore she didn’t do any damage the new bollard did. The big mistake was the gardai describing the event initially as the button was pressed and on Tuesday after the gardai learned Gsoc were involved they announced it was a malfunction.

It could have been a malfunction but then you get posters like this:

Larbre34 wrote: »

Anyway, I have a close relative in the special detective unit and I had heard about this incident last week. There was no malfunction of the barrier, it was an operational and procedural "malfunction".

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

I have in a previous life travelled in and out that gate 100's of times. This was as you say a procedural malfunction not a mechanical one. They fuked up by not passing on the information to the person on the gate

Out of hundreds of vehicles, the one time it malfunctions was when a PSNI vehicle was passing over it? Perhaps.

mfceiling wrote: »

Bollox. What "speed" do you think it was driven in at? It was following another jeep. Did the 2 of them take a run at the gate and hope for the best? Do you think a northern reg vehicle with the acting commissioner in it would risk speeding through the checkpoint at garda hq? Do you know the force those solid steel barriers come up with?
Between people claiming that he shouldn't be the commissioner (religion/bigotry or take your pick) to the Jeep being "flung" into the air....

No surprise certain people do not like co-operation between the PSNI and Gardai, and who do not like the current commissioner ( religion/bigotry or take your pick, as you say).

Hotblack Desiato · 10-04-2019 01:00AM

Irishguy44 wrote: »

An official complaint has been made to GSOC on Monday afternoon and the Garda Commissioner was aware of the complaint.

Source...?

If Gsoc are independent they will get to the bottom of it but probably won’t be allowed investigate or won’t get cooperation.

Same old same old, so.

If procedures were not followed and drew should not have been in that Jeep with psni officers then the insurance company won’t pay out either.

Aww, you were doing so well! State owned vehicles aren't insured. The "insurer" is the state itself.

The Northern Ireland police ombudsman has also been asked to investigate and Karen Bradley the NI secretary has been asked to explain

Source? There's far too much idle speculation on this thread already.

foxy farmer · 10-04-2019 01:01AM

Street view shows lifting barriers at the gate as well.

FrancieBrady · 10-04-2019 01:21AM

janfebmar wrote: »

No surprise certain people do not like co-operation between the PSNI and Gardai, and who do not like the current commissioner ( religion/bigotry or take your pick, as you say).

:D Says the person who has blamed everybody but the Commander that changed the plan and normal protocol, who also happens to be ex RUC/PSNI, whom said poster has been defending for years.

I make no secret of the fact this was an unwise appointment, given that we have outstanding cases that we require information on from his secretive former employers.

Irishguy44 · 10-04-2019 01:31AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Source...?

Same old same old, so.

Aww, you were doing so well! State owned vehicles aren't insured. The "insurer" is the state itself.

Source? There's far too much idle speculation on this thread already.

I don’t know why you think I am speculating about Gsoc , you can contact them yourself the reference number is : GSOC REF: 000086-04-19

The same complaint sent to them about it was also sent to Charlie Flanagan, Karen Bradley, NI ombudsman so that’s how I know. The email asked Gsoc and Ni ombudsman to investigate together and asks Karen Bradley : Can Karen Bradley confirm to the House of Commons why a Jeep owned by the PSNI was involved in an accident carrying the Irish Police Chief? and why?

why are her police in our country?

With regards your insurance question I think you will find the psni vehicle is not a state owned vehicle, uk police forces all use their own insurance companies, London uses Lloyd’s and if the psni shouldn’t have been there no payout British taxpayer covers it.

joeguevara · 10-04-2019 01:32AM

There are a number of questions that need to be answered here. Since the rise of dissident activity in recent months (car bomb in Derry and letter bombs sent from Dublin to UK) driving a police commissioner in psni vans around the south and possible transfer into Garda vans makes him a sitting duck. Reports state he should be transported by helicopter from North to South.

Secondly who gave permission for armed spin officers to enter the republic. Although it has been legally allowed since 2013 there is a procedure that has to be followed with paperwork to back it up. It would be a conflict for Drew Harris to grant permission if he was in the van. If permission had been granted then the person who gave it should just admit it. Then no issue. The fact that no one has makes it an issue. A freedom of information request would probably fail as it is an issue of national security.

It is a kick in the face for Irish officers if drew harris doesn't have faith in them for his protection and prefers a foreign police. Couple this with foreign security being brought in for evictions makes it even more sinister. The gardai are here to protect citizens and are essentially answerable to the public. The lack of transparency makes people lose faith. Someone needs to either outline exactly what procedure was followed or there should be a full investigation. But sweeping it under the carpet with a simple 'nothing to see here' statement is making fools out of the public.

Sac O Spuds · 10-04-2019 01:38AM

The whole fiasco needs more explanation.

Irishguy44 · 10-04-2019 01:53AM

joeguevara wrote: »

There are a number of questions that need to be answered here. Since the rise of dissident activity in recent months (car bomb in Derry and letter bombs sent from Dublin to UK) driving a police commissioner in psni vans around the south and possible transfer into Garda vans makes him a sitting duck. Reports state he should be transported by helicopter from North to South.

Secondly who gave permission for armed spin officers to enter the republic. Although it has been legally allowed since 2013 there is a procedure that has to be followed with paperwork to back it up. It would be a conflict for Drew Harris to grant permission if he was in the van. If permission had been granted then the person who gave it should just admit it. Then no issue. The fact that no one has makes it an issue. A freedom of information request would probably fail as it is an issue of national security.

It is a kick in the face for Irish officers if drew harris doesn't have faith in them for his protection and prefers a foreign police. Couple this with foreign security being brought in for evictions makes it even more sinister. The gardai are here to protect citizens and are essentially answerable to the public. The lack of transparency makes people lose faith. Someone needs to either outline exactly what procedure was followed or there should be a full investigation. But sweeping it under the carpet with a simple 'nothing to see here' statement is making fools out of the public.

You say there was dissident activity in Derry and letter bombs were dissident, no dissident (s) or anyone Irish has been arrested, no proof the Derry bomb wasn’t controlled by British sources, dissidents would not put a bomb at a courthouse knowing cctv camera is right there and cctv footage has been released of any dissidents, the letter bombs? Who is to say the British didn’t come here, post them from here and then blame dissidents. Dissidents would have chosen better addresses to send bombs too and not Scotland either.Many people question this bomb and letter bomb as being convenient at a time Brexit was being negotiated and an attempt by the British to show Europe that the Irish are bombers. The British police said it was dissident, the gardai alluded it might be dissident but they also said the bollard malfunctioned so we can’t believe everything they say.

Bottom line is Charlie Flanagan should have seen that drew Harris was u suitable to be Garda chief owing to security required, owing to his previous dealings with psni and as he served time in A unit protecting hrh and took oath to queen he was unsuitable as well as his father being murdered. At the end of the day drew Harris could hold a grudge against Ireland because what happened his father.

Poor choice by Charlie Flanagan to appoint him has led to this America wouldn’t hire the head of Russian police to lead fbi , Ireland shouldn’t have chosen a British man to lead their force

joeguevara · 10-04-2019 02:00AM

Irishguy44 wrote: »

You say there was dissident activity in Derry and letter bombs were dissident, no dissident (s) or anyone Irish has been arrested, no proof the Derry bomb wasn’t controlled by British sources, dissidents would not put a bomb at a courthouse knowing cctv camera is right there and cctv footage has been released of any dissidents, the letter bombs? Who is to say the British didn’t come here, post them from here and then blame dissidents. Dissidents would have chosen better addresses to send bombs too and not Scotland either.Many people question this bomb and letter bomb as being convenient at a time Brexit was being negotiated and an attempt by the British to show Europe that the Irish are bombers. The British police said it was dissident, the gardai alluded it might be dissident but they also said the bollard malfunctioned so we can’t believe everything they say.

Bottom line is Charlie Flanagan should have seen that drew Harris was u suitable to be Garda chief owing to security required, owing to his previous dealings with psni and as he served time in A unit protecting hrh and took oath to queen he was unsuitable as well as his father being murdered. At the end of the day drew Harris could hold a grudge against Ireland because what happened his father.

Poor choice by Charlie Flanagan to appoint him has led to this America wouldn’t hire the head of Russian police to lead fbi , Ireland shouldn’t have chosen a British man to lead their force

Maybe you should learn the meaning of dissident. You assume dissident means republican. You have both republican and loyalist dissident. Also the meaning of dissident is someone who opposes official policy or in opposition to official policy which can also be carried out by states to increase tension.

The fact that you went in a rant for no reason without understanding the meaning of dissident shows a lack of understanding of the issue. Whoever carried it out, would see a breach in security protocol as a target and my point stands.

Irishguy44 · 10-04-2019 02:11AM

joeguevara wrote: »

Maybe you should learn the meaning of dissident. You assume dissident means republican. You have both republican and loyalist dissident. Also the meaning of dissident is someone who opposes official policy or in opposition to official policy which can also be carried out by states to increase tension.

The fact that you went in a rant for no reason without understanding the meaning of dissident shows a lack of understanding of the issue. Whoever carried it out, would see a breach in security protocol as a target and my point stands.

Maybe when you post on a public forum you shouldn’t get so defensive and try belittle me by suggesting I don’t know what dissident it.

I know exactly what dissidents are and mean, you were using the term to suggest the ira or Republicans have stepped up the pace and therefore drew is a sitting duck, I stated no dissidents or Irish have been arrested therefore until proven these incidents you suggest were dissident in nature could have been staged by the supposed victims (the British) it wasn’t a rant I just pointed out that your opinion of them being dissident incidents is just that your opinion and don’t confuse someone questioning your personal opinion as a rant

Cheers

Irishguy44 · 10-04-2019 02:18AM

joeguevara wrote: »

Maybe you should learn the meaning of dissident. You assume dissident means republican. You have both republican and loyalist dissident. Also the meaning of dissident is someone who opposes official policy or in opposition to official policy which can also be carried out by states to increase tension.

The fact that you went in a rant for no reason without understanding the meaning of dissident shows a lack of understanding of the issue. Whoever carried it out, would see a breach in security protocol as a target and my point stands.

And I don’t have a lack of understanding of the situation the situation as I see it is that many people felt drew Harris was totally unsuitable before appointed, it was a bad decision that would backfire on Charlie Flanagan and it has.

Drew Harris should not be head of the Irish force as he isn’t Irish or rather doesn’t identify as Irish but is if that makes sense, this is a man who grew up being loyal to the Union, who’s father killed by “dissidents” who has a grudge against those wanting a United ireland, he carries a British passport

This isn’t about dissidents it’s about the people of Ireland having a Garda Commissioner we can trust and thus trust his force, we have neither.

joeguevara · 10-04-2019 02:28AM

Irishguy44 wrote: »

Maybe when you post on a public forum you shouldn’t get so defensive and try belittle me by suggesting I don’t know what dissident it.

I know exactly what dissidents are and mean, you were using the term to suggest the ira or Republicans have stepped up the pace and therefore drew is a sitting duck, I stated no dissidents or Irish have been arrested therefore until proven these incidents you suggest were dissident in nature could have been staged by the supposed victims (the British) it wasn’t a rant I just pointed out that your opinion of them being dissident incidents is just that your opinion and don’t confuse someone questioning your personal opinion as a rant

Cheers

I didn't say IRA or Republicans. I said dissident which could be either side or indeed counter subterfuge by British. You assumed I meant republican. Honestly in my opinion I think more likely to be loyalist due to the border issue. Apologies if my response came across bluntly. I didn't mean it to.

Irishguy44 · 10-04-2019 02:31AM

joeguevara wrote: »

I didn't say IRA or Republicans. I said dissident which could be either side or indeed counter subterfuge by British. You assumed I meant republican. Honestly in my opinion I think more likely to be loyalist due to the border issue. Apologies if my response came across bluntly. I didn't mean it to.

I won’t reply as I don’t know what the word subterfuge means, and don’t want to google it

Manic Moran · 10-04-2019 07:11AM

pure.conya wrote: »

they're american, they don't understand jurisdiction

https://www.thejournal.ie/us-army-uniform-shannon-4117778-Jul2018/

More likely someone didn’t get an updated memo. For quite a few years, there was a blanket authorization granted to wear of uniform not only in Shannon airport but also the surrounding environs. Nobody wanted to wake the Minister every time an airplane was grounded in Shannon and the troops had to stay at a hotel in Clare for a few days, which happened a surprising number of times. I guess the authorization expired and there was an oversight.

Charles Ingles · 10-04-2019 07:39AM

Come on a set up by the Garda from start to finish.
They were never going to accept an RUC man in charge of the Garda

cj maxx · 10-04-2019 08:30AM

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Come on a set up by the Garda from start to finish.
They were never going to accept an RUC man in charge of the Garda

Good. They shouldn’t accept one. I think given the nature of terrorism on this island and the part that northern/ British authorities played in promoting and participating in ‘the war’ , that its a national security issue to have him as commissioner . Does he know what the army rangers are doing etc ?

10-04-2019 08:40AM

janfebmar wrote: »

It is her job to establish the identity and purpose of each vehicle that visits. She badly damaged the vehicle her own boss was in. Big mistake.

Big mistake was made by the boss, travelling with armed officers from a foreign police force without going through the official channels

Drew Harris armoured jeep flung into the air at Garda HQ

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