Drew Harris armoured jeep flung into the air at Garda HQ

Odyssey 2005 · 09-04-2019 05:08PM

CountingCrows wrote: »

They kept tapes of all phone calls made to stations for years but they can't find HQ footage from last week - lol

They cant even look after their phones !

Odyssey 2005 · 09-04-2019 05:16PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its not the movies, petrol tanks dont blow up at the drop of a hat. And besides armoured vehicles used reinforced tanks with bladders to resist fuel vapour ignition from hot projectiles or shrapnel.

Anyway, I have a close relative in the special detective unit and I had heard about this incident last week. There was no malfunction of the barrier, it was an operational and procedural "malfunction".

And even if I didn't know what I know, I agree with the above, they must think the public would swallow a brick to accept that this barrier, new and all as it is, would happen to "malfunction" under the unmarked NI vehicle of all the hundreds of vehicle movements in and out of Garda HQ every day. The absolute spoofers.

I was being facetious about the tank. Another poster here brought that shyte into the frame.
I have in a previous life travelled in and out that gate 100's of times. This was as you say a procedural malfunction not a mechanical one. They fuked up by not passing on the information to the person on the gate,she did her job and they are talking themselves into a deeper hole by the hour.

McMurphy · 09-04-2019 05:26PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

How has this thread reached 450 post? Utter nothing of an incident.

Just heard it being discussed on the five pm news too.

Ironically, the more the Garda press office try and spoof it away, the more interest it's garnering.

Larbre34 · 09-04-2019 06:56PM

janfebmar wrote: »

So you think the vehicle was deliberately attacked and damaged, rather than stopped in a professional manner?

Where did u get that from what i said?

Ive heard from the horses mouth that the barrier was activated on purpose by personnel on duty in the gatehouse due to a perceived threat. The barrier did not malfunction. Procedure fell down in several aspects, the ferrying of Harris all the way by NI vehicle and the failure to communicate this with the security unit at Garda HQ. This is what is now being internally investigated by the Assistant Commissioner for Security and Intelligence.

The Garda statement today, claiming a malfunctioning barrier caused the incident is BS, but is the last you will hear about it officially.

Fiery mutant · 09-04-2019 07:37PM

I thought this Harris guy was supposed to be the man to help improve the Gardai’s image in this country after all the sewage that has seeped out under O Sullivan’s stewardship.

But this latest escapade just confirms that nobody in authority in this country can be trusted to do anything right. They really are a collection of **** ups.

mickdw · 09-04-2019 08:04PM

The barrier incident was an embarrassing mistake but not a big issue.
If they had said a communication error led to the vehicle being stopped by security barrier, there would have been a few laughs and no more.
If the new commissioner sees fit to cover up such a minor issue, it is clear that nothing has changed and all are as corrupt as ever.

mfceiling · 09-04-2019 08:05PM

pablo128 wrote: »

It's an armoured Jeep. It will have a toughened skid plate under the engine.

It was driven in at speed.

Bollox. What "speed" do you think it was driven in at? It was following another jeep. Did the 2 of them take a run at the gate and hope for the best? Do you think a northern reg vehicle with the acting commissioner in it would risk speeding through the checkpoint at garda hq? Do you know the force those solid steel barriers come up with?
Between people claiming that he shouldn't be the commissioner (religion/bigotry or take your pick) to the Jeep being "flung" into the air (probably turned over twice in mid air then caught fire) there has been some sh*te posted in this thread.

Atoms for Peace · 09-04-2019 08:12PM

The whole things a smoke screen to deflect attention from the Gaurds secret flying black Mariah project.

hatrickpatrick · 09-04-2019 08:26PM

mickdw wrote: »

The barrier incident was an embarrassing mistake but not a big issue.

The incident isn't actually "the barrier incident", though - it's "the armed officers from another jurisdiction being allowed into the country by the Garda Commissioner, illegally" incident. That's what's going to make it controversial, particularly given that Harris's previous, and potentially ongoing, loyalty to UK law enforcement has already generated controversy in some circles.

Drifter50 · 09-04-2019 08:37PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The incident isn't actually "the barrier incident", though - it's "the armed officers from another jurisdiction being allowed into the country by the Garda Commissioner, illegally" incident. That's what's going to make it controversial, particularly given that Harris's previous, and potentially ongoing, loyalty to UK law enforcement has already generated controversy in some circles.

Can you only imagine the palaver this would cause if a Garda ARU approached Stormont Castle......

The Nordies would have a field day but when its this way around, its almost as if it is a non event

pablo128 · 09-04-2019 09:16PM

mfceiling wrote: »

Bollox. What "speed" do you think it was driven in at? It was following another jeep. Did the 2 of them take a run at the gate and hope for the best? Do you think a northern reg vehicle with the acting commissioner in it would risk speeding through the checkpoint at garda hq? Do you know the force those solid steel barriers come up with?
Between people claiming that he shouldn't be the commissioner (religion/bigotry or take your pick) to the Jeep being "flung" into the air (probably turned over twice in mid air then caught fire) there has been some sh*te posted in this thread.

How would an armoured Jeep be written off then? You and another poster are essentially saying that if you jack up an armoured Jeep it is only fit for a scrapyard afterwards.

09-04-2019 09:19PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The incident isn't actually "the barrier incident", though - it's "the armed officers from another jurisdiction being allowed into the country by the Garda Commissioner, illegally" incident. That's what's going to make it controversial, particularly given that Harris's previous, and potentially ongoing, loyalty to UK law enforcement has already generated controversy in some circles.

Exactly.
Everything is now trying to cover up the fact that armed officers from another jurisdiction were here, illegally.

mickdw · 09-04-2019 09:24PM

Id imagine it's within the powers of the commissioner to allow them into the state where he deemed it appropriate.
They did do a pretty good job of keeping this out of the media but it got out in the end.

09-04-2019 09:30PM

mickdw wrote: »

Id imagine it's within the powers of the commissioner to allow them into the state where he deemed it appropriate.
They did do a pretty good job of keeping this out of the media but it got out in the end.

No there are specific protocols in place for allowing foreign police officers to carry firearms in this country.
The commissioner can't just decide, come on over lads! The minister for justice has responsibility for these situations.

janfebmar · 09-04-2019 09:30PM

No proof or indication the officers from N. Ireland were armed. Anyone see any arms? No.

If Harris himself was armed and the Garda escort armed that would suffice, I would imagine. The PSNI can pick up their arms again off another PSNI vehicle when they reach the border.

FrancieBrady · 09-04-2019 09:33PM

janfebmar wrote: »

No proof or indication the officers from N. Ireland were armed. Anyone see any arms? No.

If Harris himself was armed and the Garda escort armed that would suffice, I would imagine. The PSNI can pick up their arms again off another PSNI vehicle when they reach the border.

You are aware the Gardai addressed the issue that they were armed, today?

09-04-2019 09:34PM

janfebmar wrote: »

No proof or indication the officers from N. Ireland were armed. Anyone see any arms? No.

If Harris himself was armed and the Garda escort armed that would suffice, I would imagine. The PSNI can pick up their arms again off another PSNI vehicle when they reach the border.

Are you actually serious?
The PSNI are an armed force, they were on armed protection, in their own country. Did they hand over their firearms to some other police men who then we're to meet them again in a few hours to hand them back?
Why would the commissioner be armed?

elperello · 09-04-2019 09:57PM

From what I have read so far it seems that PSNI armed protection officers were escorting DH and were joined by AGS armed protection officers at or near the border.
-+
Assuming that the role of armed protection officers is to protect the person under their charge it is reasonable to speculate what would occur if some threat was made to DH's life in the course of their journey.

It appears to me that two separate groups of trained officers would do all in their power up to and including opening fire to protect DH and defend themselves.

Thus we could have two groups under different orders from separate jurisdictions with different levels of training and equipment having an armed engagement with terrorists on the streets/roads of the Republic.

In such an engagement it would be operationally best practice that all those trying to protect DH would be under one command and working together towards a single goal.

As far as I can see this does not seem to be the case and I think that puts DH at risk and furthermore presents a threat to those in both protection details and innocent by-standers.

09-04-2019 10:05PM

elperello wrote: »

From what I have read so far it seems that PSNI armed protection officers were escorting DH and were joined by AGS armed protection officers at or near the border.
-+
Assuming that the role of armed protection officers is to protect the person under their charge it is reasonable to speculate what would occur if some threat was made to DH's life in the course of their journey.

It appears to me that two separate groups of trained officers would do all in their power up to and including opening fire to protect DH and defend themselves.

Thus we could have two groups under different orders from separate jurisdictions with different levels of training and equipment having an armed engagement with terrorists on the streets/roads of the Republic.

In such an engagement it would be operationally best practice that all those trying to protect DH would be under one command and working together towards a single goal.

As far as I can see this does not seem to be the case and I think that puts DH at risk and furthermore presents a threat to those in both protection details and innocent by-standers.

If there is a risk you'd think DH should be taken care of by officers solely from the Gardai, he's their commissioner. It's sort of the reverse situation of why visiting VIPs are allowed to have their own armed protection, DH should be having a Garda detail in the North rather than a PSNI detail in the Republic. Now you could definitely make the argument that the PSNI can take care of it up North, that's fair, but having armed PSNI officers accompanying him here makes no sense

McMurphy · 09-04-2019 10:09PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are aware the Gardai addressed the issue that they were armed, today?

You think that matters to this particular poster?

First demanding to know why the Gardai weren't informed of the commissioners change of plan, despite no one yet knowing why he broke the protocol, and ignoring the fact that the buck stops with him regardless.

Then asking why an unidentified vehichle with northern reg plates attempting to enter Garda headquarters unauthorized wasn't "stopped by waving it down" then in the next breath tell us it was stopped at a checkpoint and the Gard intentionally activated the bollard.

Then whinging about who would pay the cost of the poor PSNI owned vehichle which arguably had no business to be south of the border, never mind within Garda HQ, and suggest we were lucky it didn't burst into flames.

Implying the sentinel Garda ballsed up, and would probably be transferred to a far away town or village.

Ask how anyone has proof that the armed forces protecting Drew Harris were armed.

Full of bollards if you ask me.

janfebmar · 09-04-2019 10:14PM

It is quite possible they were coming for a meeting, would not be the first such meeting and will not be the last (despite their car being attacked while it was going at a walking pace).

awec · 09-04-2019 10:20PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The incident isn't actually "the barrier incident", though - it's "the armed officers from another jurisdiction being allowed into the country by the Garda Commissioner, illegally" incident. That's what's going to make it controversial, particularly given that Harris's previous, and potentially ongoing, loyalty to UK law enforcement has already generated controversy in some circles.

It's not illegal.

McMurphy · 09-04-2019 10:22PM

awec wrote: »

It's not illegal.

If is if they were armed and it wasn't pre agreed well in advance, and if it was, then there will be paperwork confirming same.

awec · 09-04-2019 10:23PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

If is if they were armed and it wasn't pre agreed well in advance, and if it was, then there will be paperwork confirming same.

Source?

09-04-2019 10:23PM

janfebmar wrote: »

It is quite possible they were coming for a meeting, would not be the first such meeting and will not be the last (despite their car being attacked while it was going at a walking pace).

Were you there with a speed camera?

If they were there for a meeting, as you put it, they wouldn't have the garda commissioner in their vehicle and they wouldn't have been armed.

McMurphy · 09-04-2019 10:42PM

awec wrote: »

Source?

It's within this very thread.

John O’Brien, retired detective chief supt and former national head of Interpol and Europol,

“The officers concerned have no authority to carry firearms. There are huge issues around how they would respond and what the legality of it would be, if they were under attack. The only reason you have armed personnel protecting an individual is that it is anticipated they may be subject to an egregious attack.”

He makes it very clear.

“If some incident goes down, what are the rules of engagement? The bottom line is that the gardand the Defence Forces are the only service permitted to carry firearms in this jurisdiction,” he said.

And security analysis, Tom Clonan goes further with this.

To counter this, it has been suggested that other foreign security forces – such as the US Secret Service – have been allowed to use firearms in the Republic of Ireland in recent years.

However, such a move would require authorisation from the Minister for Justice, who can give permission to visiting officers to carry weapons on an exceptional basis.

In a statement this morning, Charlie Flanagan offered his support to both police forces while also appearing himself to distance himself from the incident.

The Minister acknowledged the reciprocal arrangements between gardand the PSNI for those travelling between both jurisdictions, saying they are “practical” and “risk-based”.

But he added: “Having said that, I understand that there has been a minor incident involving a car travelling at about walking pace.

“I am advised that the travel and security arrangements on this occasion were in line with standard practice.”

It would certainly appear that if the PSNI officers in the vehicle carrying Harris were carrying weapons, the Minister did not give any authorisation for them to do so.

The Garda press office about reciprocal agreement is spin. yes they are allowed to do so, but with specific prior arrangement and or agreements. Which it doesn't look like Flanagan had given.

Drew Harris went on a solo run is how it appears. The spoofing and spinning of what happened and why is only adding to the mystique.

JohnnyFlash · 09-04-2019 10:56PM

It’s over, John. The enormous scandal you had developed in your head didn’t come to pass. You’ll just have to live with that underlying resentment of Drew Harris, and all he represents for you.

janfebmar · 09-04-2019 10:58PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Were you there with a speed camera?

No but I believe the Garda statement that it was moving at walking pace. Police vehicles are normally driven with care and attention through checkpoints.

McMurphy · 09-04-2019 11:01PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It’s over, John. The enormous scandal you had developed in your head didn’t come to pass. You’ll just have to live with that underlying resentment of Drew Harris, and all he represents for you.

On Sunday afternoon you were implying it never happened to begin with, and contrary to me "resenting" Harris, I had high hopes for him, but alas we seem to have been shouldered with more of the same.

Thsnks for your concern all the same chump.

EmmetSpiceland · 09-04-2019 11:15PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

On Sunday afternoon you were implying it never happened to begin with, and contrary to me "resenting" Harris, I had high hopes for him, but alas we seem to have been shouldered with more of the same.

Thsnks for your concern all the same chump.

You’ve been like a dog with a bone for days now, Johnny. Trying to find any angle on this that suits your agenda.

Time to let it go, boy.

Drew Harris armoured jeep flung into the air at Garda HQ

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