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Anti-vaxxers

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    #2972
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    mzungu wrote: »
    The thing is, though, when claims are true they are not "lies and smears." They are facts. Brian Deer was correct and we all know Mr. Wakefield is fraud. The evidence is there.

    Glad to clear that up for you.




    Skip t0 (10:20) the doc proves Deer is a liar.


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    #2973
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Skip t0 (10:20) the doc proves Deer is a liar.

    Honestly, when you're reduced to a YouTube video in relation to a doctor being disbarred, you've lost the argument.


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    #2974
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    batgoat wrote: »
    Honestly, when you're reduced to a YouTube video in relation to a doctor being disbarred, you've lost the argument.




    It shows footage of Deer "diagnosing" a child's bowel disease from an x ray which he later denied.


    The footage shows beyond any doubt that Dear lied.


    Now you have to question what else Dear lied about ?


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    #2975
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,774 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Skip t0 (10:20) the doc proves Deer is a liar.
    Skip to 58:24 which proves this video is inconclusive.


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    #2976
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,486 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    It shows footage of Deer "diagnosing" a child's bowel disease from an x ray which he later denied.
    LOL go back and listen to that again, that's not what is said there. Christ, your actually just making stuff up.


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    #2977
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,332 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    It shows footage of Deer "diagnosing" a child's bowel disease from an x ray which he later denied.


    The footage shows beyond any doubt that Dear lied.


    Now you have to question what else Dear lied about ?

    I don't think you've said anything that's actually true here at all come to think of it. Deer is a respected journalist. Wakefield is a proven liar who was happy to abuse children for profit. That makes deciding who to believe rather easy for people who aren't subscribed to absurd and obscene ideologies.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #2978
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,486 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I don't think you've said anything that's actually true here at all come to think of it. Deer is a respected journalist. Wakefield is a proven liar who was happy to abuse children for profit. That makes deciding who to believe rather easy for people who aren't subscribed to absurd and obscene ideologies.

    At the point he refers to, the woman holding the Xray says its Bowel disease and Deer says, no, thats an xray. And she keeps shouting its bowel disease, and he quite rightly fobs her off as she is mental.

    @Dr. Brown, why are you lying about this, your actually resorting to making stuff up, best of luck, I hope you and yours benefit from herd immunity. Regards.


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    #2979
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭ [Deleted User]


    4hekd7hz04r21.jpg


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    #2980
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,332 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    CramCycle wrote: »
    At the point he refers to, the woman holding the Xray says its Bowel disease and Deer says, no, thats an xray. And she keeps shouting its bowel disease, and he quite rightly fobs her off as she is mental.

    @Dr. Brown, why are you lying about this, your actually resorting to making stuff up, best of luck, I hope you and yours benefit from herd immunity. Regards.

    I don't watch videos Dr Brown links to anymore. They're usually crackpots or charlatans.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #2981
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I don't watch videos Dr Brown links to anymore. They're usually crackpots or charlatans.

    It's always telling when a user can't provide reputable sources and relies on nefarious conspiracies.


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    #2982
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I don't watch videos Dr Brown links to anymore. They're usually crackpots or charlatans.

    Depends on the subject he supporting some are just racists, but cracpots and charlatans of a different colour all the same.


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    #2983
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    Exactly just because the majority of people believe Vaccines are harmless doesn't make it true.

    Not just the majority of people. All scientific evidence says they save lives and are safe.


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    #2984
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,486 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I don't watch videos Dr Brown links to anymore. They're usually crackpots or charlatans.

    I know what you mean but I think its only fair if I am going to put a counter argument to the point being made. Unfortunately, it is now pointless as not only is the poster making things up, he is claiming that the links provided say one thing when they clearly say another. It's actually disturbing that someone would be so blinded by belief that they can't understand what they themselves are posting doesn't correlate with what they are saying.


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    #2985
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I don't watch videos Dr Brown links to anymore. They're always crackpots or charlatans.

    FTFY


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    #2986
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,332 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I know what you mean but I think its only fair if I am going to put a counter argument to the point being made. Unfortunately, it is now pointless as not only is the poster making things up, he is claiming that the links provided say one thing when they clearly say another. It's actually disturbing that someone would be so blinded by belief that they can't understand what they themselves are posting doesn't correlate with what they are saying.

    I haven't had a chance to watch the Channel 4 Dispatches video I linked yet but I have read the BMJ piece which I can't recommend highly enough. It exposes the rotten network of dodgy scientists, unethical doctors, poor outdated practices and ambulance chasing lawyers, namely one Richard Barr.

    Some of these videos are nearly an hour long with no evidence whatsoever and arguably some to the contrary that Dr Brown hasn't even watched it himself. I admit that I didn't watch the Dispatches episode but that was so groundbreaking that it probably merits watching regardless.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #2987
    skepticalme
    Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭skepticalme


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Wow , for a journalist he must have been very busy. That Danish trial alone included at least half a million children.


    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/mmr/mmr-studies.html


    CBA checking it fully but IIRC Wakefield wasn't against vaccines, just the ones he wasn't getting paid to support.




    If you claim to believe Wakefield but don't vaccinate your kids then you don't believe Wakefield. It's that simple.

    Because there is nothing stopping parents paying out of their own pocket to get separate vaccinations.


    There is no option to get separate vaccinations anymore. It is MMR combined or no vaccination. Many parents would pay for separate vaccinations if they were available.


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    #2988
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,332 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    skepticalme wrote: »
    There is no option to get separate vaccinations anymore. It is MMR combined or no vaccination. Many parents would pay for separate vaccinations if they were available.

    Source?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #2989
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Source?

    skepticalme is right as far as I recall. I'll try and find a source but the reasoning behind it is that the MMR is extensively tested and has a proven safety record whereas individual vaccines haven't been properly tested. There have been no studies carried out on either the efficacy or safety of separate vaccines.


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    #2990
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/clinical-resources/mmr-faq-12-17-08.html
    On October 21, 2009, Merck announced that based on input from the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), professional societies, scientific leaders, and customers, Merck has decided not to resume production of ATTENUVAX® (Measles Virus Vaccine Live), MUMPSVAX® (Mumps Virus Vaccine Live), and MERUVAX®II (Rubella Virus Vaccine Live).

    And here's a bit about why this is the case:
    http://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/vaccinepreventable/vaccination/news/title-2031-en.html


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    #2991
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,486 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    skepticalme wrote: »
    There is no option to get separate vaccinations anymore. It is MMR combined or no vaccination. Many parents would pay for separate vaccinations if they were available.
    Orion wrote: »
    skepticalme is right as far as I recall. I'll try and find a source but the reasoning behind it is that the MMR is extensively tested and has a proven safety record whereas individual vaccines haven't been properly tested. There have been no studies carried out on either the efficacy or safety of separate vaccines.

    Most (if not all) of them that are still in production are unlicensed here for this reason, you can get them but it is not authorised by the DOH or HSE and a doctor would be risking alot for no benefit.


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    #2992
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I haven't had a chance to watch the Channel 4 Dispatches video I linked yet but I have read the BMJ piece which I can't recommend highly enough. It exposes the rotten network of dodgy scientists, unethical doctors, poor outdated practices and ambulance chasing lawyers, namely one Richard Barr.

    Some of these videos are nearly an hour long with no evidence whatsoever and arguably some to the contrary that Dr Brown hasn't even watched it himself. I admit that I didn't watch the Dispatches episode but that was so groundbreaking that it probably merits watching regardless.

    Dispatches also has a great documentary on the stuff vaccine workers in Pakistan face. Basically the conspiracies endanger the workers and factor into terror organisation's propaganda.


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    #2993
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,332 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    batgoat wrote: »
    Dispatches also has a great documentary on the stuff vaccine workers in Pakistan face. Basically the conspiracies endanger the workers and factor into terror organisation's propaganda.

    That's fascinating. Would you have a link at all handy?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #2994
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    That's fascinating. Would you have a link at all handy?

    https://youtu.be/9HC_Ou-csWc
    Was actually unreported world, the conspiracies are around mass sterilisation of Muslims. And it seems reasonable to say that ongoing conspiracies in West further legitimise them.


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    #2995
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    CramCycle wrote: »
    At the point he refers to, the woman holding the Xray says its Bowel disease and Deer says, no, thats an xray. And she keeps shouting its bowel disease, and he quite rightly fobs her off as she is mental.

    @Dr. Brown, why are you lying about this, your actually resorting to making stuff up, best of luck, I hope you and yours benefit from herd immunity. Regards.




    Did you even watch the video ? Now your making a fool of you self.

    At 10:50 Deer "says that is not bowel disease its... diarrhea".

    Dear is not qualified to say what condition the child has by looking at an xray.




    Anyone could watch the video and see that Deer is lying.


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    #2996
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,332 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Some serious grasping at straws there. Deer allegedly says something and suddenly everything he's ever said, written or done is all wrong.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #2997
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I don't think you've said anything that's actually true here at all come to think of it. Deer is a respected journalist. Wakefield is a proven liar who was happy to abuse children for profit. That makes deciding who to believe rather easy for people who aren't subscribed to absurd and obscene ideologies.




    And the so called "abuse" wasn't carried out by Wakefield but by Dr John Walker Smith.


    Do you consider Dr John Walker Smith to be a child "abuser" ?


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    #2998
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,332 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    And the so called "abuse" wasn't carried out by Wakefield but by Dr John Walker Smith.


    Do you consider Dr John Walker Smith to be a child "abuser" ?

    The abuse is detailed in their "paper".

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #2999
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Some serious grasping at straws there. Deer allegedly says something and suddenly everything he's ever said, written or done is all wrong.




    He proves hes liar beyond any doubt.


    So you have to question everything else he says.


    Also what gives him the right to "diagnose" a child's bowel condition when hes not Doctor ?


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    #3000
    Dr Brown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dr Brown


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    The abuse is detailed in their "paper".


    None of those tests you claim was "abuse" were carried out by Wakefield.


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    #3001
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,332 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    None of those tests you claim was "abuse" was carried by Wakefield.

    I don't believe you. I've read enough of your posts to know that everything you post is scarily detached from reality.

    Prove it.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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