An Taisce Green Schools

Say my name · 07-04-2019 07:45PM

markodaly wrote: »

But they are.

If your feelings get hurt, well too bad, but it is beyond a shadow of a doubt that the beef industry, worldwide, is a major contributor to global warming.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth

You do know The Guardian doesn't always print the truth especially now that it's funded by "Vegan" money.

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/watch-out-watch-out-the-guardians-about.278002/

But then sometimes they do print an article like this.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/25/veganism-intensively-farmed-meat-dairy-soya-maize

And to think we wouldn't be reading this malarkey now if the money didn't come in.
https://www.ft.com/content/9044ff9a-358b-11e7-99bd-13beb0903fa3

They do have interesting articles but they always have an agenda.

People are sheep.

Unearthly · 07-04-2019 07:59PM

Say my name wrote: »

You do know The Guardian doesn't always print the truth especially now that it's funded by "Vegan" money.

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/watch-out-watch-out-the-guardians-about.278002/

But then sometimes they do print an article like this.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/25/veganism-intensively-farmed-meat-dairy-soya-maize

And to think we wouldn't be reading this malarkey now if the money didn't come in.
https://www.ft.com/content/9044ff9a-358b-11e7-99bd-13beb0903fa3

They do have interesting articles but they always have an agenda.

People are sheep.

The Guardian are reporting on a study done. The Guardian didn't do the study so don't know why that's relevant to your point

emaherx · 07-04-2019 08:00PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Farmers may need to start thinking of meat like tobacco - initially they laughed, they disputed the science and they talked about freedom to choose but bit by bit smoking became a minority pastime as the decades ticked by.

Obviously there are massive differences between the cattle and tobacco (I have a hard time imagining any Irish government imposing 1 euro taxes on a kilo of meat every year!) but in the end a movement took hold and if you lose one generation you've lost the future. The first "meat free" parents will raise meat free children.

Don't assume nothing will change.

Possibly or maybe people will just accept that we are infact omnivores and that meat can be a delicious part of a balanced diet. Think your smoking analogy would work better with processed foods whether they are meat or plant based.

wrangler · 07-04-2019 08:03PM

All public bodies seem intent on scuppering private enterprise, it's a bit ironic seeing that our taxes are paying them.
So ....what else is new

Say my name · 07-04-2019 08:03PM

Unearthly wrote: »

The Guardian are reporting on a study done. The Guardian didn't do the study so don't know why that's relevant to your point

Show us the study so.

And not from The Guardian.

Did someone say An Taisce was also a charity case.
I wonder who paid for this craic?

Unearthly · 07-04-2019 08:03PM

Say my name wrote: »

Show us the study so.

And not from The Guardian.

Did someone say An Taisce was also a charity case.
I wonder who paid for this craic?

It's in the article

grassroot1 · 07-04-2019 08:06PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Farmers may need to start thinking of meat like tobacco - initially they laughed, they disputed the science and they talked about freedom to choose but bit by bit smoking became a minority pastime as the decades ticked by.

Obviously there are massive differences between the cattle and tobacco (I have a hard time imagining any Irish government imposing 1 euro taxes on a kilo of meat every year!) but in the end a movement took hold and if you lose one generation you've lost the future. The first "meat free" parents will raise meat free children.

Don't assume nothing will change.

I will listen to any logical arguments but to equate beef production and tobacco is fruit loops

Buford T. Justice XIX · 07-04-2019 08:06PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Farmers may need to start thinking of meat like tobacco - initially they laughed, they disputed the science and they talked about freedom to choose but bit by bit smoking became a minority pastime as the decades ticked by.

Obviously there are massive differences between the cattle and tobacco (I have a hard time imagining any Irish government imposing 1 euro taxes on a kilo of meat every year!) but in the end a movement took hold and if you lose one generation you've lost the future. The first "meat free" parents will raise meat free children.

Don't assume nothing will change.

It's not like meat free is a blameless exercise, Harry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/06/health/drug-resistant-candida-auris.html

The rise of Candida Auris is only the tip of the iceberg here and that's a bloody frightening enough superbug. There's quite a few dangerous plant infections out there just waiting for a small chance to explode and wipe out whole branches of food choices, wheat blast being one of the more significant ones but there are plenty more out there.

https://www.k-state.edu/wheatblast/

Incidentally, a agricultural advisor in the USA came across a single infected wheat head in a field and removed the infected plant and kept a close eye on the field for a few years but was lucky enough to have stopped the infection from spreading across N America. It's currently causing huge problems in Bangladesh but it's only a matter of time before something goes pop...

Buford T. Justice XIX · 07-04-2019 08:24PM

And Irish planes release as much greenhouse gasses as livestock. I'm sure it'll be headline news in the morning...
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/planes-release-as-much-greenhouse-gas-as-livestock-453917

Say my name · 07-04-2019 08:25PM

Unearthly wrote: »

It's in the article

I haven't read all of the report but from what I picked up is that methane emissions from rice production is linked in with beef and dairy and it comes out as 30% of global emissions and emissions per kg of food are higher in freshwater aquaculture than beef and dairy.
Biochar gets a mention too.

Tilikum17 · 07-04-2019 08:33PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

And Irish planes release as much greenhouse gasses as livestock. I'm sure it'll be headline news in the morning...
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/planes-release-as-much-greenhouse-gas-as-livestock-453917

‘Look over there, they’re just as bad as us’

The world is changing, ye can piss & whine as much as ye like. But ye know it.

Irish farmers will be left behind.

John_Rambo · 07-04-2019 08:35PM

Say my name wrote: »

The thing is the 'traditional' farmers diet has led to the majority to have a long and happy life in this country.

By traditional I mean dairy, fish, eggs, pork, bacon, a bit of game, cabbage, carrots, spuds, turnip, -- veg and home grown fruit and not abusing the black stuff or tobacco.

Now you have these hip young whipper snappers telling these farmers that "oh no you're wrong you should be eating this new Quorn pie with palm oil or avocados or soya" or whatever stuff being flown half way across the world and processed by some multinational.

You'd be a little bit peeved off at these young whipper snappers ignorance too if you were a farmer in this country.

Gas how Catholic institutions didn't meet this opposition when they promoted zero meat on Fridays. "young whipper snappers" :rolleyes:

Say my name · 07-04-2019 08:36PM

While we're on studies.

Here's one conducted over 2000 people that shows that dairy products makes you happy.
And 3 in 10 prefer cheese to sex.

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/features/around-the-uk/17530226.adding-cream-butter-and-cheese-to-food-makes-us-happier-according-to-dairy-uk-study/

At least this study made no bones who funded it.

Say my name · 07-04-2019 08:39PM

Tilikum17 wrote: »

‘Look over there, they’re just as bad as us’

The world is changing, ye can piss & whine as much as ye like. But ye know it.

Irish farmers will be left behind.

You'll be back...

Looking for your pint of milk from the tank when we're snowed in again and the country grinds to a halt.

Say my name · 07-04-2019 08:42PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Gas how Catholic institutions didn't meet this opposition when they promoted zero meat on Fridays. "young whipper snappers" :rolleyes:

Ah we don't mind them fellas.

And shure isn't the country a better place now that we're not told what to do and think?

:pac:

John_Rambo · 07-04-2019 08:45PM

Say my name wrote: »

Ah we don't mind them fellas.

And shure isn't the country a better place now that we're not told what to do and think? :pac:

Fish & loaves all the way!:pac:

Tilikum17 · 07-04-2019 08:46PM

Say my name wrote: »

You'll be back...

Looking for your pint of milk from the tank when we're snowed in again and the country grinds to a halt.

I’m in my 40’s & I’ve never drank milk. Long before I knew how cruel the dairy industry was I never drank milk. I hated the taste/look of it. I use to have coco pops with water as a child.

I work with a woman & her husband is a dairy farmer & even he comments how horrendous it is to take the calf away from the mother is.

Social media has brought it down to earth.

Say my name · 07-04-2019 08:55PM

Tilikum17 wrote: »

I’m in my 40’s & I’ve never drank milk. Long before I knew how cruel the dairy industry was I never drank milk. I hated the taste/look of it. I use to have coco pops with water as a child.

I work with a woman & her husband is a dairy farmer & even he comments how horrendous it is to take the calf away from the mother is.

Social media has brought it down to earth.

I'd say you're a barrel of laughs.

I'd recommend some cheese if you're feeling blue.

Social media has you warped.

Upstream · 07-04-2019 08:56PM

evolving_doors wrote: »

How much water does it take to produce cattle for beef or milk (till end of life)?
What's the stats on that anyone know?

markodaly wrote: »

There are some stats here.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/10/how-much-water-food-production-waste

Beef, as you would expect, is near the top of the list.

From markodaly's link
Beef 1 kg 15,415 litres of water
:eek:

Meanwhile back in Ireland
https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/teagasc-guidelines-to-follow-when-calculating-an-animals-water-need-26622254.html

Dry cows need up to 55 litres/day, calves require 20-25, beef cattle (300kg) need 20-25 litres/day, cattle close to finishing (600kg) need 35-60

So over the lifecycle of the animal, roughly 100 litres per kg of beef.
With rainwater harvesting and ponds that demand for 100 litres can be greatly reduced, possibly even eliminated.

So either 15,415 litres per kg, or 100 litres. A bit like public opinion of beef versus reality.

Panch18 · 07-04-2019 09:00PM

Tilikum17 wrote: »

I’m in my 40’s & I’ve never drank milk. Long before I knew how cruel the dairy industry was I never drank milk. I hated the taste/look of it. I use to have coco pops with water as a child.

I work with a woman & her husband is a dairy farmer & even he comments how horrendous it is to take the calf away from the mother is.

Social media has brought it down to earth.

Haha she is taking the piss out of you some amount and you don’t even seem to realise it!! Wow!!

Buford T. Justice XIX · 07-04-2019 09:00PM

Tilikum17 wrote: »

‘Look over there, they’re just as bad as us’

The world is changing, ye can piss & whine as much as ye like. But ye know it.

Irish farmers will be left behind.

LOL, can you explain why aircraft emissions aren't mentioned by the perpetually offended when global warming is discussed?
Is it that it's easier not to sacrifice their own pleasures by exclusive focusing on others perceived to be non politically correct for the easy social media likes or what?

Injuryprone · 07-04-2019 09:03PM

Unearthly wrote: »

The Guardian are reporting on a study done. The Guardian didn't do the study so don't know why that's relevant to your point

https://sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/claims-against-meat-fail-to-see-bigger-picture/

Dakota Dan · 07-04-2019 09:08PM

Unearthly wrote: »

The Guardian are reporting on a study done. The Guardian didn't do the study so don't know why that's relevant to your point

Yes and that's all it is a study without any real scientific backing.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 07-04-2019 09:09PM

Upstream wrote: »

From markodaly's link
Beef 1 kg 15,415 litres of water
:eek:

Meanwhile back in Ireland
https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/teagasc-guidelines-to-follow-when-calculating-an-animals-water-need-26622254.html

So over the lifecycle of the animal, roughly 100 litres per kg of beef.
With rainwater harvesting and ponds that demand for 100 litres can be greatly reduced, possibly even eliminated.

So either 15,415 litres per kg, or 100 litres. A bit like public opinion of beef versus reality.

Depending on the location of the particular farm. In the US south west, virtually all agriculture is hugely dependent on irrigation from the Ogallala reservoir. Both animal and plant including the Almond plantations wouldn't be possible at anywhere near their current scale without the unrestricted access to water from that aquifer.

Irish milk and beef require large amounts of water also but this is supplied from the natural world by rainfall. Grass currently has a dry matter content of approx 16-18% depending on whether the grass is on its first or second grazing ground. So 82-84% of the cattle intake is water currently.

Tilikum17 · 07-04-2019 09:15PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

LOL, can you explain why aircraft emissions aren't mentioned by the perpetually offended when global warming is discussed?
Is it that it's easier not to sacrifice their own pleasures by exclusive focusing on others perceived to be non politically correct for the easy social media likes or what?

You lost me at lol.

A mod no less.

Between yourself & gozunda. Grown men/women using lol is frightening.

Dakota Dan · 07-04-2019 09:18PM

Tilikum17 wrote: »

I’m in my 40’s & I’ve never drank milk. Long before I knew how cruel the dairy industry was I never drank milk. I hated the taste/look of it. I use to have coco pops with water as a child.

I work with a woman & her husband is a dairy farmer & even he comments how horrendous it is to take the calf away from the mother is.

Social media has brought it down to earth.

Can you explain how vegans think they know so much about livestock farming but still lack basic farming knowledge and how they always know a farmer or a relation of a farmer that agrees with their nonsense? Tell that woman you work with to tell her husband to leave the calves with the cows until they a reared if he thinks it's so horrendous if he even exists beyond your imagination that is.

gctest50 · 07-04-2019 09:19PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

LOL, can you explain why aircraft emissions aren't mentioned by the perpetually offended when global warming is discussed?

..........

because they're so bad volcanos are probably better than them ?

https://informationisbeautiful.net/2010/planes-or-volcano/

Tilikum17 · 07-04-2019 09:25PM

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Can you explain how vegans think they know so much about livestock farming but still lack basic farming knowledge and how they always know a farmer or a relation of a farmer that agrees with their nonsense? Tell that woman you work with to tell her husband to leave the calves with the cows until they a reared if he thinks it's so horrendous if he even exists beyond your imagination that is.

I’ll tell her in the morning.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 07-04-2019 09:31PM

Tilikum17 wrote: »

You lost me at lol.

A mod no less.

Between yourself & gozunda. Grown men/women using lol is frightening.

Ok, onto deflection now...

Panch18 · 07-04-2019 09:33PM

Tilikum17 wrote: »

You lost me at lol.

A mod no less.

Between yourself & gozunda. Grown men/women using lol is frightening.

Or you could act like an adult in your 40’s and answer his question

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