An Taisce Green Schools

granturismo · 05-04-2019 12:42PM

Another example of the hypocracy of An Taisce; 'An Taisce heritage officer has plans for Airbnb-style studio lettings shot down on appeal'

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/an-taisce-heritage-officer-has-plans-for-airbnbstyle-studio-lettings-shot-down-on-appeal-37985288.html

The role of AN Taisce is supposed to be;
To act as a voluntary non-governmental organisation for purposes. which are beneficial to the community and to the public generally in a charitable way; and to promote the conservation, renewal and permanent preservation for the benefit of the nation, of land and buildings

http://www.antaisce.org/publications/an-taisce-%E2%80%93-its-role-in-the-built-environment-planning-process

markodaly · 05-04-2019 12:44PM

I have to love the irony of some here complaining about An Taisce and the power it wields while ignoring that the IFA is arguably the most powerful interest group in the country.

At the end of the day, the argument is all self-interest. Farmers fell threatened that people who are environmentally conscious will consume less of their produce. The rest of it, I do not buy.

One has to remember, Irish people never until very recently, consumed this amount of beef.

It is self-evident that beef framing is a very very inefficient way to produce calories for food. Sure, if one wants to look at the vacuum that is the Irish population fo 4.5 million then yea, its a drop in the ocean. But there are 7.5 Billion people on this planet and growing. If you think that creating more pastoral land for beef farming is a sustainable way of feed all these Billions of people, then you are frankly deluded.

I am no fan of An Taisce as my previous posts will attest to. Especially their constant objections to infrastructure projects. Maybe they are overstepping their remit here. But saying that, as citizens of this country and earth we should all, collectively try and see how our own decisions and behavior impact the environment. If it means eating less beef or dairy, then so be it.

Also, I say this as someone who eats meat twice a day, 7 times a week.

BarryD2 · 05-04-2019 12:45PM

_Brian wrote: »

[PHP][/PHP]

indeed..
but you can understand the frustration to have a public body spreading incorrect propaganda against your business, seeding it into the minds of children at school.. thats not acceptable.

Yeah but you can look at it both ways - you'd have the Dairy Council and Bord Bia etc running public promotions as well. If you have public money being spent advising the public, you can't really complain just because you prefer one bodies advice over another. Would it be better to get rid of all and just left farming do it's own promotional & advertising work? I dunno but there is a general trend towards less dairy and meat consumption so ......

Xcellor · 05-04-2019 12:46PM

_Brian wrote: »

Human genetics in different parts of the world have developend differently over the years..

Yes the chinese diet contains little dairy but thats how they have developed over thousands of genrrations...

Irish people have relied in Dairy for their calcium etc for the same throusands of generations and so thats the way we are genitally programmed..

Advising developing children, particularly girls to cut out dairy which will undoubtably be their primary source of calcium is madness. Many of these same children are already suffering with body image issues, bad advice at this stage could be devastating.

Major dietry advice like this should be given by suitably qualified professionals, this does not include teachers..

Vegans and veterians have a very emotional perspective on this, anything but a balanced impartial position.. And a bit like their attitude towards the environmnet, health comes second to animal issues

It's true that the intolerance for dairy in the western world is much lower than for example africa/asia however just because we can tolerate it without getting sick now doesn't mean it's healthy at our current consumption rates.

I disagree fundamentally that any human past weaning needs milk but as a society we are dependent on it and hooked on it in the same way babies crave mothers milk. Most vegetarians who cite ethical reasons for being so really struggle when it comes to giving up dairy.

6000-7000 years of drinking milk has not stopped us from being able to absorb calcium from other more healthier sources, it comes down to tradition/education/taste/money/jobs.

The western diet is so devoid of other sources of calcium through plants that without proper education giving up dairy maybe dangerous.

Milk has calcium in it but it's everything else that is not great, hormones + cholesterol + casein. Nature intended it to make baby cows into big cows.

gctest50 · 05-04-2019 12:48PM

Xcellor wrote: »

.........

Nature intended it to make baby cows into big cows.

............big tasty cows

dmakc · 05-04-2019 12:53PM

Xcellor wrote: »

Nature intended it to make baby cows into big cows.

And the males?

markodaly · 05-04-2019 12:57PM

Xcellor wrote: »

Milk has calcium in it but it's everything else that is not great, hormones + cholesterol + casein. Nature intended it to make baby cows into big cows.

If calcium is a concern you can get more calcium from soybeans per 100g than the same amount of milk per 100ml, in fact, more than twice as much.

People think that milk is the only source of calcium, which stems of course from marketing and lobbying and advertising on TV.

Sure, milk is a good source of calcium, as well as other things. But the point is beware of slick advertising by various interest groups that tell half-truths.

Farming lobbies around the world are not shy to flex their muscles in this regards. Just look at the state of US food production and its impact on the general population.

_Brian · 05-04-2019 12:58PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

Yeah but you can look at it both ways - you'd have the Dairy Council and Bord Bia etc running public promotions as well. If you have public money being spent advising the public, you can't really complain just because you prefer one bodies advice over another. Would it be better to get rid of all and just left farming do it's own promotional & advertising work? I dunno but there is a general trend towards less dairy and meat consumption so ......

But they are public bodies following their mandate, using professionals to get their message across..

the green schools thing is not evidence based, a subvertive message being delivered to volunerable children and by people who have no knowledge or expertise in what they are teaching.

Upstream · 05-04-2019 01:00PM

Xcellor wrote: »

We don't need dairy and to suggest otherwise is nonsense. We've only been drinking it 6000-7000 years and that was for survival purposes not because we suddenly developed a biological need for it

So, looking at the big picture, dairy appeared in our diet 6000-7000 years ago. Fine.

Then the green revolution, over reliance on chemical pesticides and artificial N, P and K fertilisers and highly processed industrial food appeared in roughly the last 60-70 years. These changes appeared across all sectors of agriculture, not just meat and dairy. What happened then?

In the last 60-70 years we have seen massive rises in obesity, auto immune disorders, cancer, heat disease, allergies, environmental pollution etc, etc, and this has coincided with a mass exodus of farmers off the land.

Why should I as a farmer let An Taisce kick meat and dairy production and frame it as a big change people can make to create a healthier environment when it's anything but the truth?

markodaly · 05-04-2019 01:09PM

Upstream wrote: »

Why should I as a farmer let An Taisce kick meat and dairy production and frame it as a big change people can make to create a healthier environment when it's anything but the truth?

Are you saying that An Taisce are a shill for big pharma and corporations?

markodaly · 05-04-2019 01:10PM

_Brian wrote: »

the green schools thing is not evidence based, a.

Which point exactly is not evidence-based.

_Brian · 05-04-2019 01:17PM

markodaly wrote: »

Which point exactly is not evidence-based.

That teachers are suitable to give doetry advice.
Telling children to cut down on dairy without understanding their needs or giving alternatives is wise.

That meat and dairy production is so damaging to the environment when various studies that view doesn’t properly take carbon sequestration onto soils into consideration.

I’m all for eating more fruit and veg, we eat 5-7 a day consistently. But not at the expense of meat and dairy which are essential in a healthy balanced diet.

Xcellor · 05-04-2019 01:19PM

markodaly wrote: »

If calcium is a concern you can get more calcium from soybeans per 100g than the same amount of milk per 100ml, in fact, more than twice as much.

People think that milk is the only source of calcium, which stems of course from marketing and lobbying and advertising on TV.

Sure, milk is a good source of calcium, as well as other things. But the point is beware of slick advertising by various interest groups that tell half-truths.

Farming lobbies around the world are not shy to flex their muscles in this regards. Just look at the state of US food production and its impact on the general population.

Exactly but how many irish people eat even 1 soy bean a week?

Where do people think cows get all the calcium in their milk hmmmmmmm. They must drink lots of milk.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

noodler · 05-04-2019 01:20PM

_Brian wrote: »

That teachers are suitable to give doetry advice.
Telling children to cut down on dairy without understanding their needs or giving alternatives is wise.

That meat and dairy production is so damaging to the environment when various studies that view doesn’t properly take carbon sequestration onto soils into consideration.

I’m all for eating more fruit and veg, we eat 5-7 a day consistently. But not at the expense of meat and dairy which are essential in a healthy balanced diet.

At the expense of?

Mental strawman aruument there.

The documents stated kids try be meat free one day a week ffs.

gctest50 · 05-04-2019 01:29PM

dmakc wrote: »

And the males?

It's like a lot of people are aliens that were beamed down and lost the instruction manual on the way

Anyway ..... Veal ?

There is a place for all Gods creatures, right next to the brocolli

dmakc · 05-04-2019 01:34PM

noodler wrote: »

The documents stated kids try be meat free one day a week ffs.

Did a lot more than that

emaherx · 05-04-2019 01:35PM

Xcellor wrote: »

Exactly but how many irish people eat even 1 soy bean a week?

Where do people think cows get all the calcium in their milk hmmmmmmm. They must drink lots of milk.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Mostly from grass..... I find grass much harder to digest.

BarryD2 · 05-04-2019 01:36PM

_Brian wrote: »

But they are public bodies following their mandate, using professionals to get their message across..

the green schools thing is not evidence based, a subvertive message being delivered to volunerable children and by people who have no knowledge or expertise in what they are teaching.

I'd no more believe what comes from An Bord Bia - quoting from their website, my emphasis:

"Bord Bia was established under An Bord Bia Act 1994 and operates in accordance with the provisions of the Bord Bia Acts and Amendment Acts 1994, 1995, 1996 & 2004 and under the aegis of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. The functions of the Board shall be to promote, assist and develop in any manner which the Board considers necessary or desirable the marketing of Irish food and livestock and the production, marketing and consumption of horticultural product"

I've never yet come across a bias free advertiser. Have you

facehugger99 · 05-04-2019 01:38PM

If An Taisce had their way, we'd be living in caves and hunting our meals with sharpened sticks.

They're like champagne socialists - they enjoy the trappings of our modern lives but object to every infrastructural project, even the one which makes their ivory-tower existence possible.

markodaly · 05-04-2019 01:47PM

_Brian wrote: »

That teachers are suitable to give doetry advice.

Not claimed.

Telling children to cut down on dairy without understanding their needs or giving alternatives is wise.

Contradicting your point above.

That meat and dairy production is so damaging to the environment when various studies that view doesn’t properly take carbon sequestration onto soils into consideration.

What?

The beef industry is one of the most inefficient ways to produce food.

I’m all for eating more fruit and veg, we eat 5-7 a day consistently. But not at the expense of meat and dairy which are essential in a healthy balanced diet.

So, it's self-interested then. At least you are honest about it. The world cannot consume western levels of beef sustainably.

TLDR, we consume too much beef.

Nekarsulm · 05-04-2019 01:47PM

_Brian wrote: »

We don’t have a school milk scheme, I didn’t even know it’s a thing now.

Food dudes was very popular with our girls, it definitely got them talking about different foods and open to trying them.

The milk scheme didn't run in our national school this year, because there was a minimun number required, and not enough parents signed up for it.
School kept the money and put it towards the "voluntary" payment.

markodaly · 05-04-2019 01:52PM

Xcellor wrote: »

Exactly but how many irish people eat even 1 soy bean a week?

Are Irish people even aware that soy is a much better source of Calcium than milk?

Ever see an ad on TV that promotes this...
I think there has been a lot of 'propaganda' on TV about certain foods, namely home grown foods. One hand washes the other.

Where do people think cows get all the calcium in their milk hmmmmmmm. They must drink lots of milk.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Why can't humans cut out the middle man so and get their dietary needs from plants?

_Brian · 05-04-2019 01:57PM

markodaly wrote: »

Why can't humans cut out the middle man so and get their dietary needs from plants?

There are many reasons.
Meat and animal products are really delicious to eat. Humans developed as omnivores for that reason. If not we’d still be swinging in the trees.

They are healthy nutritious foods for humans to consume.

Humans have been farming animals as part of a family unit for so long it’s second nature to be surrounded by and care for these animals, consuming their produce is as natural for us omnivores as breathing air. Being a farmer is a true gift and a joy.

It’s our choice and that should be respected.

coolshannagh28 · 05-04-2019 02:00PM

This is the thin edge of the wedge of social engineering and the drive away from meat is government policy as expressed by An Taoiseach around a month ago , An Taisce are only doing what they are told and farmers can expect much more of this propaganda in the near future , only a matter of time till its Dept of agriculture policy.

_Brian · 05-04-2019 02:02PM

markodaly wrote: »

Not claimed.

Contradicting your point above.

What?

The beef industry is one of the most inefficient ways to produce food.

So, it's self-interested then. At least you are honest about it. The world cannot consume western levels of beef sustainably.

TLDR, we consume too much beef.

I’m
Not sure what you mean by self interested?

I think beef is too cheap, cheap products loose their value. I abhor factory farming of animals. Extensive farming of animals would indeed cut supply and raise prices but I would welcome this.
The result would be a superior product, that costs more. It needs to cost more to reflect its true value on all fronts.

I’m not condoning the current trends of factory farms owned by companies who also process the meat. That produces a commodity rather than a true quality product.

Sacrolyte · 05-04-2019 02:09PM

Was this initiative in primary or secondary schools?

gctest50 · 05-04-2019 02:24PM

_Brian wrote: »

There are many reasons.
Meat and animal products are really delicious to eat. Humans developed as omnivores for that reason. If not we’d still be swinging in the trees.

.........

sensible monkeys like a bit of gazelle and anything else they can catch :

Sir Guy who smiles · 05-04-2019 02:35PM

According to the independent, this initiative states the "vast majority" of Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions comes from agriculture.

The EPA states that just under 30% of greenhouse gasses come from agriculture:

Now the word "vast" is pretty subjective, but the word "majority" is easily defined, it means greater than 50%.

Balf · 05-04-2019 02:36PM

noodler wrote: »

Hmm not sure about that argument tbh.

The vast majority of our farmers produce is exported. A few people here reducing their consumption of red meat and/or dairy is hardly here nor there.

Its tastes changing abroad which are the bigger issue and there's **** all anyone here can do about that.

I think yours is the most pertinent point.

As the Brexit process is revealing to us, a lot of the food we eat is actually imported. And, as you say, most of the beef produced by Irish farmers is exported to the EU (and most of that to the UK).

I wasn't surprised, but I was disappointed to see that half of all domestically produced field vegetables are grown in Dublin. That's a pretty stark indication of the disconnection between the food we actually need and eat, and the food that Irish farmers produce.

The IFA comments just don't connect to reality. If they want to produce for the domestic market, they need to change the products they produce.

Panch18 · 05-04-2019 03:15PM

The world is gone bloody nuts i'll tell you.

Soya and Almond are the 2 biggest substitutes for dairy, certainly on this side of the world. Now where do the geniuses on here think that Soya and Almond come from?

Well Soya comes from USA and Brazil who produce the vast majority of the worlds Soya.

Where do the Brazilians grow Soya? Why they cut down rainforest to grow it of course.

And the Yanks? Well I wonder what caused the American Dust bowl? Anything to do with the fact that grasslands were ploughed to grow wheat and Soya and then got decimated by drought

And what about Almonds? That would be the same almonds that are extremely thirsty trees and are causing massive shortages of water in California for the last few years. Another dust bowl waiting to happen, for fear the fires weren't enough

So anybody who thinks that an Irish person (or any western for that matter) drinking cows milk is somehow doing more damage to the environment than a clown drinking Soya needs their head well and truly tested

An Taisce Green Schools

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