Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

ShooterSF · 04-04-2019 05:46PM

bilston wrote: »

I don't really know where there is headed at all. I suppose May and Corbyn might cobble something together that gets through parliament, but the consequences of that are unknown. Will it be acceptable to the EU? How will Brexiteers react? The Tory party could rupture? Wil it lead to a General Election? Then what? The polls suggest a similar Parliament would be returned.

Haven't the DUP said they will pull the plug on their support for the govt if it passes the WA with a backstop. Considering any deal May has with Corbyn will have to include passing it how does the govt survive afterwards?

Working class heroes · 04-04-2019 05:49PM

ShooterSF wrote: »

It's definitely an outlier but it suggests that while most of the people who voted to leave were not in favour of a no deal there is support for it if it comes down to crash out vs revoke...

Can't find it but it's been posted/linked here previously. A high proportion of people who favour no deal don't actually understand what "no deal" means.

A lot seem to think "no deal" means everything stays as is.....

Water John · 04-04-2019 05:57PM

I would expect the negotiating teams headed up by Starmer and Lidington to work well, but May might just ignore it.

bilston · 04-04-2019 06:14PM

Working class heroes wrote: »

Can't find it but it's been posted/linked here previously. A high proportion of people who favour no deal don't actually understand what "no deal" means.

A lot seem to think "no deal" means everything stays as is.....

So it's been claimed for a while. I'm not sure that's correct.

If it is true then it is exactly why a referendum should never have been called in the first place. UK membership of the EU is just too complicated an issue to expect the majority of the public to understand.

I'm not saying people are stupid, I regard myself as relatively well educated but I don't have great knowledge on international trade. But the reality is the are so many different strands to the EU that even elected politicians struggle with it all.

Charles Babbage · 04-04-2019 06:20PM

This is too easy to say. If Wales wished to become independent and put up customs barriers then everyone wold expect the public to understand the problems with this. The detail of the EU is complex, the idea of the EU is pretty simple.

An Ciarraioch · 04-04-2019 06:25PM

Irish customs officials will be on board ferries from tomorrow:

http://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1113837427033083904

joe40 · 04-04-2019 06:28PM

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/12/05/see-20-years-of-fake-news-about-eu-by-uk-press-vote-for-your-favourite-here/?fbclid=IwAR0wB8XbiDTQVuHafNyqAZPZ9ic1OTFFwS8B11kuRE5UQfuimU7H67kJYqk

I'm not sure if this has linked properly, but it a list of 20 years worth of false "EU stories" in the British press. I know it is something we are familiar with but still depressing to see the sheer scale of the non sense.
How can there be no accountability for this sort of thing.
I know there are plenty of good intelligent people in the UK, but also a lot of easily led numbskulls.

Kermit.de.frog · 04-04-2019 06:30PM

I hate the way Varadkar is so sycophantic and apologetic when ever he meets a leader of any bigger nation.

With May: "Downing Street! Oh My Gawd i'm just so happy to be here..."

Trump: "We are so happy you have taken the time out of your busy schedule for this, we are such a small country etc...."

Merkel: "We are so happy you found the time to visit us here (the tiny irrelevant place that we are)..."

For goodness sake you are suppose to be the leader of the country. Stand up straight and stop apologising for seemingly interrupting schedules all the time...

Seriously...we have interests too.

Tell me how · 04-04-2019 06:39PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I hate the way Varadkar is so sycophantic and apologetic when ever he meets a leader of any bigger nation.

With May: "Downing Street! Oh My Gawd i'm just so happy to be here..."

Trump: "We are so happy you have taken the time out of your busy schedule for this, we are such a small country etc...."

Merkel: "We are so happy you found the time to visit us here (the tiny irrelevant place that we are)..."

For goodness sake you are suppose to be the leader of the country. Stand up straight and stop apologising for seemingly interrupting schedules all the time...

Seriously...we have interests too.

No harm to be a little self-effacing when greeting others. The Downing Street Love Actually thing was a bit much but aside from that no harm in realising that a little sugar goes a long way.

We have needs but we also have a national population which is nearly 50% of London's and 25% of New York's and about the same as Munich and Berlin combined.

We are doing quite well in having our interests represented given London didn't manage to beat us down, we have some of the largest investment of American Multinationals FDI of any country in the world and Angela MErkel and Macron are steadfast in their support for the GFA (unlike the co guarantors)

MikeSoys · 04-04-2019 06:45PM

i seen no deal was removed from the equation but an hr later it was still possible? so.. yeah nothing changed .?

Junkyard Tom · 04-04-2019 06:47PM

Tell me how wrote: »

We have needs but we also have a national population which is nearly 50% of London's and 25% of New York's and about the same as Munich and Berlin combined.

We should also be aware that the EU is facing a substantial test and how it stands with Ireland is being watched carefully by other small EU nations.

RDM_83 again · 04-04-2019 06:52PM

Working class heroes wrote: »

Can't find it but it's been posted/linked here previously. A high proportion of people who favour no deal don't actually understand what "no deal" means.

A lot seem to think "no deal" means everything stays as is.....

Yeah unfortunately thats deliberately misleading bull****, doesn't stop it being something thats popular and mentioned a lot in more hive-mindish/circle-jerking places as it reinforces a narrative about idiot English voters are.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/voters-understand-what-a-no-deal-brexit-means-but-are-split-on-what-impact-itd-have/

With YouGov, we have polled voters on the implications of no deal twice – back in August, and for a second time this month – and found a different story to the one. Just 4 per cent of voters think that a no deal Brexit would mean the ‘UK remains an EU member’

======

Anthony Wells of YouGov has corroborated this evidence with an even lower figure of 1 per cent who think no deal equals Remain. The British public have got the picture, and they haven’t been living under a rock for the past two-and-a-bit years: they know that no deal Brexit would mean we would leave the EU.

Basically as far as I know what happened a Sky Twitter poll got brigaded/manipulated and then the manipulated poll got spread around Twitter by the more obnoxiously elitist remain twitter users.

serfboard · 04-04-2019 06:54PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

We should also be aware that the EU is facing a substantial test and how it stands with Ireland is being watched carefully by other small EU nations.

Indeed. And being inside the club must always be better than being outside the club or else everyone would leave!

brendanwalsh · 04-04-2019 07:10PM

Can anyone explain this tweet?

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1113849242089590786

Surely there's no tatcher era ministers still in parliament?

Irish Praetorian · 04-04-2019 07:11PM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Can anyone explain this tweet?

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1113849242089590786

Surely there's no tatcher era ministers still in parliament?

Perhaps not so many in the House of Commons but quite a few would now be members of the House of Lords.

strandroad · 04-04-2019 07:18PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Yeah unfortunately thats deliberately misleading bull****, doesn't stop it being something thats popular and mentioned a lot in more hive-mindish/circle-jerking places as it reinforces a narrative about idiot English voters are.

I don't think that it was claimed that they think no deal means remain en masse. In your figures there is indeed only 4% of such responses, but then also 18% who don't know what no deal means at all. Put together, almost a quarter of polled souls do not have a clue about the real meaning of no deal. In January 2019.

Significant numbers also believe that the impact of no deal will only be temporary: "63 per cent of Leavers instead agreed there would be ‘short term disruption but no lasting effects’, set against 16 per cent of Remainers."

MikeSoys · 04-04-2019 07:21PM

house of lords taking a break before debating again until late. it will be monday until they have results.. ..relating to requesting a extension.. looking like its going TMs way; uk will partake in eu elections if extension is allowed by eu

prawnsambo · 04-04-2019 07:21PM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Can anyone explain this tweet?

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1113849242089590786

Surely there's no tatcher era ministers still in parliament?

Andrew Adonis is a lord and sits in the House of Lords where the relics of the Thatcher era gather dust. They've obviously been woken from their long post-prandial slumber of retirement to enter the lists for their party. Lawson is a particularly staunch brexiter.

Tell me how · 04-04-2019 07:27PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

We should also be aware that the EU is facing a substantial test and how it stands with Ireland is being watched carefully by other small EU nations.

Agree. And there will be a time when there are future negotiations (such as tax harmony) where it will be implied that we owe support to the concept based on support we are getting now.

It isn't as simple as 'we owe them' or that we should roll over on anything which makes us less competitive but I expect it will happen in some form.

Charles Babbage · 04-04-2019 07:35PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Andrew Adonis is a lord and sits in the House of Lords where the relics of the Thatcher era gather dust. They've obviously been woken from their long post-prandial slumber of retirement to enter the lists for their party. Lawson is a particularly staunch brexiter.

Yet, Thatcher's achievements included the Anglo-Irish Agreement and the Single Market, both to be shredded by the Brexiteers.

LeinsterDub · 04-04-2019 07:42PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Seriously...we have interests too.

Yeah we do and we got a backstop to protect them. He's not doing too bad for a sycophant

Spanish Eyes · 04-04-2019 07:42PM

Is the HoL trying to block this now? I thought they couldn't do this anymore, so by delaying over three or four days sounds to me like filibustering.

Can they succeed in blocking it by playing silly games or what now?.

Hurrache · 04-04-2019 08:02PM

MikeSoys wrote: »

i seen no deal was removed from the equation but an hr later it was still possible? so.. yeah nothing changed .?

This is regularly repeated. It's not out of the equation, it's still the default.

MikeSoys · 04-04-2019 08:15PM

Hurrache wrote: »

MikeSoys wrote: »

i seen no deal was removed from the equation but an hr later it was still possible? so.. yeah nothing changed .?

This is regularly repeated. It's not out of the equation, it's still the default.

.. true as im pretty sure i heard it was off the table before..

MikeSoys · 04-04-2019 08:17PM

German Chancellor Angela Merkel: "We will do everything in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit... but we have to do this together with Britain..." https://t.co/7ePN5Dqjaa

sounds like eu might be open to change(change to WA) if a no deal is likely

lawred2 · 04-04-2019 08:20PM

MikeSoys wrote: »

German Chancellor Angela Merkel: "We will do everything in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit... but we have to do this together with Britain..." https://t.co/7ePN5Dqjaa

sounds like eu might be open to change(change to WA) if a no deal is likely

If Britain are willing to reconsider those red lines then of course they are. They always have been. They have never said otherwise.

The WA with the parameters as set by the UK unchanged then no - the WA is as it is.

Hurrache · 04-04-2019 08:26PM

MikeSoys wrote: »

German Chancellor Angela Merkel: "We will do everything in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit... but we have to do this together with Britain..." https://t.co/7ePN5Dqjaa

sounds like eu might be open to change(change to WA) if a no deal is likely

Nope, they aren't based on what the UK currently demand.

LeinsterDub · 04-04-2019 08:30PM

MikeSoys wrote: »

German Chancellor Angela Merkel: "We will do everything in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit... but we have to do this together with Britain..." https://t.co/7ePN5Dqjaa

sounds like eu might be open to change(change to WA) if a no deal is likely

April 1st was 3 days ago

Itssoeasy · 04-04-2019 09:17PM

Just watching sky news report on what happened today and lord Lawson(aka Margaret thatchers chancellor Nigel lawson) looks on his last few laps. Is this the most the House of Lords have worked in decades ?

Beechwoodspark · 04-04-2019 09:18PM

MikeSoys wrote: »

German Chancellor Angela Merkel: "We will do everything in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit... but we have to do this together with Britain..." https://t.co/7ePN5Dqjaa

sounds like eu might be open to change(change to WA) if a no deal is likely

Sounds like the UK are extremely extremely desperate

Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

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