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Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

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  • #5732
    MikeSoys
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭MikeSoys


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Said Merkel was coming to Dublin for a chat and there was still time to get rid of the backstop.

    i hope Merkel does not try and force ireland to pay for a british / eu mess


  • #5733
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,141 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    It's times like this, that I can recognise great people, regardless of political allegiance.

    Clarke, Grieves, have been great on the Conservative party.

    Labour seem lost, which is a shame.

    Mogs and his ilk are just evil self serving toads, no time for them.

    Ken Clarke is the biz. Years of experience, But no one is listening to him. Grieve got a mawling by the Conservative members in his constituency a couple of days ago. Twitter clips I saw were not very nice at all.

    I have to say, despite our many failings in the Dail and all that, I am very glad to be living in Ireland right now.


  • #5734
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    MikeSoys wrote: »
    i hope Merkel does not try and force ireland to pay for a british / eu mess

    Firstly it's a British mess solely and completely and secondly how would we be forced to pay?


  • #5735
    ThePanjandrum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭ThePanjandrum


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    So after rejecting revoking article 50 if there's no extension or any deal in place the HOC have put no deal back on the table surely?


    Not only is "No Deal" the default position, it is also the only alternative a majority of MPs has voted for.


  • #5736
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Ken Clarke is the biz. Years of experience, But no one is listening to him. Grieve got a mawling by the Conservative members in his constituency a couple of days ago. Twitter clips I saw were not very nice at all.

    I have to say, despite our many failings in the Dail and all that, I am very glad to be living in Ireland right now.
    Still a Tory however. How can he stand with these people he fundamentally disagrees with?


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  • #5737
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    The political atmosphere is so toxic right now.

    https://twitter.com/shivmalik/status/1112828916744507392


  • #5738
    boggerman1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭boggerman1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Brussels losing patience it would seem......

    https://twitter.com/mattfrei/status/1112826645671563265?s=21

    Isn't it incredible how long the EU have put up with the messing/clusterfcuk in the U.K..


  • #5739
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭Infini


    MikeSoys wrote: »
    i hope Merkel does not try and force ireland to pay for a british / eu mess

    Doubt it. If anything any cost's were forced to pay should be basically billed to the UK in any trade deal they want.

    Honestly at this point unless there's a vote for a A50 cancellation they're headed strait for a crashout and honestly we may have little option but to cut em loose and suffer the consequences of their folly. Maybe some sense will eventually come back to the UK but I'd say once they leave they'll never return as the same entity.


  • #5740
    gooch2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭gooch2k9


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Ken Clarke is the biz. Years of experience, But no one is listening to him. Grieve got a mawling by the Conservative members in his constituency a couple of days ago. Twitter clips I saw were not very nice at all.

    I have to say, despite our many failings in the Dail and all that, I am very glad to be living in Ireland right now.

    Yet he stands by the Conservative Party. He should be joining Boles, and others with them. They're enabling the nonsense to go on as much as anyone, no matter how reasonable their arguments.

    A few more Tories resign the whip and a no confidence motion is near certain to pass. The EU would consider the long extension for a GE I believe.


  • #5741
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Over 400 MPs voted against a No Deal Brexit, let's keep to the facts. a majority of the Tories favour a No Deal Brexit.


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  • #5742
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,878 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    The political atmosphere is so toxic right now.

    https://twitter.com/shivmalik/status/1112828916744507392

    In all fairness, this is Mark Francois we are talking about, he's just toxic in general, recently he was saying he didn't accept a vote where the horse he backed lost, as he was in the army and therefore he was trained not to lose and made a big deal about it and lost his cool.

    SNIP.


  • #5743
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mod: No more insults please.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #5744
    mazwell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭mazwell


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    I said it about two months ago, the people we expected to be the pragmatic adults in the room, the remainers, are in reality the biggest obsticle to a workable deal because the last thing they want is a workable sustanable Brexit. Better for them to hold out for a referendum, even at the risk of no-deal than support Brexit in any form.

    They would prefer a no-deal Brexit to a workable Brexit as a no-deal could potentially be so bad that they will eventually get enought support to be able to overturn it and get back into the EU.

    But if there was a no deal Brexit can they just rejoin the EU or would they have to be approved


  • #5745
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,264 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    PropJoe10 wrote: »
    He seemed completely broken. Just said that he accepted that he'd failed at trying to get people onside for his idea and said he couldn't continue to represent a party that wouldn't compromise. Then walked out.

    I just caught a second or two of him leaving, and I thought he was choking with emotion.

    Such awful times. But fair play to him for standing by his principles. I hope he will be ok, it is very unusual for an MP to quit live in the Commons!
    Well going on the tweets under the video on Twitter showing him resigning his principles aren’t getting much support.


  • #5746
    MikeSoys
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭MikeSoys


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Firstly it's a British mess solely and completely and secondly how would we be forced to pay?

    well we (at our cost) could be responsible for enforing a border using army or garda etc..


  • #5747
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,005 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    So what will happen now? I guess May will still try to put her deal for another go and hope that fear wins through once again. The DUP may have to back it if they are scared enough, then again Sammy Wilson was still very forceful on backing the result and that anything doesn't seem to be doing that. If they don't back the deal my guess is JRM will have to go with them as he said he would and he got a lot of criticism about not backing the DUP as he said he would.

    But the gamble is will May allow the UK to leave if her deal fails again or will she ask for an extension. The problem I see is that she has no authority or majority to announce the next steps if her deal fails. She doesn't have to ask for an extension and the EU will not grant one. Labour could call a vote of no-confidence but it may not succeed. She doesn't have the support if her party doesn't follow her for a general election and the polls are suggesting a lot of them will lose their jobs so I don't see them voting for one.

    So what can she realistically go back to the EU with as the plan? She can resign but a new leader will take months to be selected and she doesn't want the UK participate in the EU elections. She can call a general election but from her past decisions I doubt she will once again gamble with her party's future especially as there are 2 parties ready to take Tory votes (UKIP and Nigel's new party). She won't have a deal and tonight made apparent there is no consensus for any other deal to pass.

    So while it pains me I can see no-deal happening with May resigning soon after and consoling herself that she delivered Brexit. It would be for the next leader to sort out the mess and much like she was given a mess she will pass it on to the next leader to sort out. She managed to make a bad situation worse and that is why she will edge Cameron as the worst ever PM.


  • #5748
    ThePanjandrum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭ThePanjandrum


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    I just caught a second or two of him leaving, and I thought he was choking with emotion.

    Such awful times. But fair play to him for standing by his principles. I hope he will be ok, it is very unusual for an MP to quit live in the Commons!


    He hasn't resigned his seat though, despite having no mandate to keep it and very little chance of winning if he evr stood for it again. Is that principle?


  • #5749
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    ThePanjandrum wrote: »
    Not only is "No Deal" the default position, it is also the only alternative a majority of MPs has voted for.

    When did a majority of MPs vote for no-deal?


  • #5750
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,613 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    IT podcast talked about the tightrope that the government walks, not to try bring too much attention to the paradox of pushing for the backstop, and wary of the consequences of a no deal, which is what the backstop is aimed to prevent.

    I do not envy their position.


  • #5751
    rabbidpeach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭rabbidpeach


    mazwell wrote: »
    But if there was a no deal Brexit can they just rejoin the EU or would they have to be approved
    They'd have to rejoin as a new member and would lose all of their opt-outs. So they'd have to join Schengen and the Euro.


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  • #5752
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    ThePanjandrum wrote: »
    He hasn't resigned his seat though, despite having no mandate to keep it and very little chance of winning if he evr stood for it again. Is that principle?

    People in the UK vote for MPs not the party same as us. His mandate is unchanged


  • #5753
    ThePanjandrum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭ThePanjandrum


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    When did a majority of MPs vote for no-deal?


    Article 50. They voted that if there was no agreement they would leave with no deal. We have to assume that they could read a very short piece of text.


  • #5754
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    mazwell wrote: »
    But if there was a no deal Brexit can they just rejoin the EU or would they have to be approved

    They would have to go through the same process as any other applicant. The arch remainers are happy to do this if it means they ultimatly rejoin the UK rather than allow the UK to succeed, even if as a deminished country, outside of the EU.


  • #5755
    MikeSoys
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭MikeSoys


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Firstly it's a British mess solely and completely and secondly how would we be forced to pay?

    well we (at our cost) could be responsible for enforing a border using army or garda etc..


  • #5756
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,613 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    IT podcast talked about the tightrope that the government walks, not to try bring too much attention to the paradox of pushing for the backstop, and wary of the consequences of a no deal, which is what the backstop is aimed to prevent.

    I do not envy their position.

    Have to hand it to Tony Donnelly and the rest though, they have been excellent throughout all of this.


  • #5757
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,260 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1112831988145287173


  • #5758
    McGiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,995 ✭✭✭McGiver


    CU noes:
    Independents: 14
    Labour: 10
    Lib Dems: 5
    Green: 1

    That's 16 votes if I don't count independents. Could have easily passed.

    2nd ref noes:
    Independents: 5
    Labour: 24

    That's 24 labour votes. Could have easily passed.

    Common Market:
    Independents: 14
    Labour: 25
    Lib Dems: 4
    Green: 1

    That's 30 votes if I don't count independents. Could have easily passed. And should have frankly, this was Labour amendment and they were whipping for it.

    Pretty much the same labour MPs appear on these three divisions. Hard not to notice Hoey, she should be kicked out of the Lb and join the DUP where she ideologically seem to belong.


  • #5759
    ThePanjandrum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭ThePanjandrum


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    People in the UK vote for MPs not the party same as us. His mandate is unchanged


    He was voted in on the basis of the manifesto. He no longer holds to that so the mandate is gone.


  • #5760
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    ThePanjandrum wrote: »
    He hasn't resigned his seat though, despite having no mandate to keep it and very little chance of winning if he evr stood for it again. Is that principle?

    How often has that happened?


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  • #5761
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,309 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Nick Boles will sit as a 'progressive Conservative'? Sounds like a bit of a contradictory term.


This discussion has been closed.
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