Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

20silkcut wrote: »

There are two realities that are uncomfortable in my opinion.
It looks like the EU will want us to protect the single market by installing a hard border.

Let’s not call them the EU 26 but the rest of the EU will not be as badly affected by a no deal scenario as ourselves.
I know we are all united but that is a reality. Those tariffs on Irish beef and Agri food are a desperate reality almost unique to Ireland. I would rather see 100 extensions and meaningful votes than that come to pass.

There was (I thought) a good article on how it could play out (as regards resolving conflict of protecting the single market in a crash out Brexit while trying to retain an open border with NI) here:
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2019/0330/1039471-brexit-no-deal-tony-connelly/
(probably someone already posted it)

Our lot are really very good at putting off doing anything about a political problem until tomorrow (which may never come, in Ireland it often doesn't) so would likely accept any old bollox reason put forward for an extension by the UK. So long as it delays the evil day (Brexit), they will be happy even if there is no political resolution in the UK. The rest of the EU might not agree with that and have other priorities causing them to reject certain types or maybe even all types of requests for another extension.

However if most of the other countries in the EU (that care about Brexit) just want to end it now I think Irish political capital in the EU/council of ministers would be much better used trying to get their support/help dealing with the problems than trying to fight them over it to "save" the UK (current govt. of which does not give a crap about what happens to us [or NI] after Brexit anyway).

Deleted User wrote: »

Chris Johns has long been writing the most caustic and acerbic articles about how insane Brexit is.

I just read yesterday's one, which has been the most-read story on The Irish Times this weekend, and he's warning strongly about the unintended consequences of all these developments and how people who think things are secure stoke up real resentments and all of society's existing stability is undermined. He's definitely on to something here.




Chris Johns: Has Brexit broken Britain irreparably?

All of the rhetoric breaks down on the fact that Britain's Fascists supported the Common Market and EU. Oswald Mosley campaigned for it. Facts are so inconvenient, aren't they?

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

I'm mystified why you think that the UK should care about your well-being while almost everyone here has been saying that you don't care about the UK's. Perhaps you could explain your reasoning.

I can't answer for what "everyone here" has been saying (don't even know as I don't read every post), only for myself. The people here are not the Irish govt. anyway. For myself I don't wish any ill will to the UK. Am certain the Irish govt. doesn't either. As above they will probably be the ones most in favour of extensions if more are sought by the UK whatever the reasons, and whatever the extent of potential damage to the EU that could do after the next European parliament elections.

Since we (UK/Ireland) are neighbours and share a border, have a lot of connections and are both (for moment) members of the EU I had expected some consideration from the UK alright about how they pursue their Brexit idea might affect us - as have said before I was very badly wrong there.

Anyway, a "hard" Brexit seems to be coming soon whatever we think. I suppose it is less satisfying [for a Brexit supporter] if it finally comes about (almost) by accident through a series of procedural muck ups and a mess of political infighting than by Theresa May or another great conservative totem telling the EU exactly where to go!

Enzokk wrote: »

...
So if the estimates are correct the UK has lost about £360m per week since the Brexit vote due to loss of GDP.

Not to mention future losses like the £13 Billion p.a.for form filling and administration that Dominic Grieve was trying to tell them about before they shouted him down.

I'm sure there would be much more in lost efficiency.

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

All of the rhetoric breaks down on the fact that Britain's Fascists supported the Common Market and EU. Oswald Mosley campaigned for it. Facts are so inconvenient, aren't they?

British Euroscepticism has always been a very peculiar beast. Most far right parties on the continent are not actually opposed to the EU or a European identity (they're far more interested in being anti-non EU immigration and anti-Islam).

The British far right these days are quite unique in being anti-EU, anti freedom of movement for European citizens and anti-the idea of a 'European identity'.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The Bank of England reckons it's £800m a week , £40 Bn a year.

GDP down 2% a year, and a no-deal would mean emergency interest rate hikes.
Tax year ends in a few days.
Rates 4.5% and energy bills are going up.

Austerity isn't over.

Unfortunately anything that is not reported in the Telegraph or Express etc. is dismissed now as fake news.

So the Guardian is off limits for the Brexiteers. Fingers in ears and la la la.

Headshot wrote: »

What time are the indicative votes tomorrow?

Usually 7, but stand to be corrected!

RobMc59 wrote: »

Nobody actually comes out and says it but if you express any opinion in support of the UK you are ostacized-like me.

I support the UK.

I don't support Brexit. Nor do most people in the UK.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I have seen many posters saying that they think the best outcome would be a hard Brexit which really hurts the UK.


Personally, I do not agree with them, I hope we see no Brexit at all.


But every single poster I have seen wish a Hard Brexit and all the associated unpleasant consequences on Britain has wished it as a teaching moment, a short, sharp shock which teaches people in the UK the real truth.


Because we don't wish ill on the UK, we wish common sense.

I said earlier that I was coming round to the view that Europe should pull the plug. My only reason for saying so is that there seems to be a lot of people over there who are determined not to see sense. I have nothing but sympathy for ordinary British people, who are the ones who will suffer at the end of the day. Of course it would be preferable all round if they cancelled the whole thing, or at least stay in the Single Market/ Cusoms Union. The problem with that is if it happens then it's a recipie for ongoing trouble. There will be massive unrest from the leavers if it's taken away from them now, and you could see the likes of Farage, Mogg, etc, whipping things up into a frenzy, aided and abetted by the gutter press. It may be that the only way to bring enough people to their senses is to crash out. Of course in many ways it will be too late then.

If Boris manages to hang on into the last two the membership will vote for him.

A well known liar, incompetent, charlatan and spoofer of a fraud and the Tories love him.

Don't see the EU bothering to negotiate with him for the next several years.

Inquitus wrote: »

a minority of Brits, and in the case of the Tories a much smaller minority, wield a ridiculous amount of power when selecting both Tory Leader and those who stand for MP in the various constituencies.

I am not talking about MPs or the Tory leader.

I am talking about Ministers of Her Majesty's Government, who should know which way is up.

Yet per the story, 13 of them want the UK to shoot itself in the gut.

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually, the vast majority and especially the younger fascists did not. They rejected Mosley on this issue and created the League of Empire Loyalists under AK Chesterton in 1954 to campaign against the breakup of the British Empire. When it was dissolved in 1967 Chesterton used the remaining money to set up the British National Front, which still exists today, self-describes as fascist, racist, Europhobi c and harks back to the glories of Empire. So speaking of "inconvenient facts" there's your true political genealogy.

League of Empire Loyalists

Perhaps he should have said facts are so convenient when you make them up to support your argument...