Madeleine McCann

MonkieSocks · 26-03-2019 12:27AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The Smith sighting claims the man carrying the child was headed to the beach..

Martin Smith said

He is not aware where this person was headed. He only saw him as they passed each other.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm#p6p1611

Aoife Smith (tail end of the group) said

She did not see if the referenced individual with the child descended Rua das Escadinhas or if he continued along Rua 25 de Abril.

retro:electro · 26-03-2019 12:31AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Yvonne Martin appears to want to help the McCanns but they don't want her help. Very strange.

Kate’s take on that:
A middle-aged British woman lady suddenly materialized beside me and introduced herself.
She announced that she was, or had been, a social worker or child protection officer and insisted on showing me her professional papers, including, I think, her Criminal Records Bureau certificate.
She asked me to sit down on a low wall, plonked herself next to me and told me she wanted me to go through everything that had happened the previous night.
She was quite pushy and her manner, her very presence, were making me feel uncomfortable and adding to my distress.

David was standing nearby.
Concerned he took me aside and pointed out that we didn’t know who this woman was or what she was doing there. He reassured me that I wasn’t obliged to speak to her if I didn’t want to. And I didn’t want to.

Whoever she was, and whatever her credential were, it was an inappropriate intrusion.

And something about it, something about her, just didn’t feel right.

I was glad I extricated myself. This woman would pop up several times in the days and months to come and I still don’t really know who she is or what she was trying to achieve”

Can’t say I blame her for being sceptical of a total stranger, and a pushy one at that. What kind of power did Mrs Martin believe she had that could have helped them?

maebee · 26-03-2019 12:43AM

Accident happened, parents hid body

retro:electro wrote: »

Kate’s take on that:
A middle-aged British woman lady suddenly materialized beside me and introduced herself.
She announced that she was, or had been, a social worker or child protection officer and insisted on showing me her professional papers, including, I think, her Criminal Records Bureau certificate.
She asked me to sit down on a low wall, plonked herself next to me and told me she wanted me to go through everything that had happened the previous night.
She was quite pushy and her manner, her very presence, were making me feel uncomfortable and adding to my distress.

David was standing nearby.
Concerned he took me aside and pointed out that we didn’t know who this woman was or what she was doing there. He reassured me that I wasn’t obliged to speak to her if I didn’t want to. And I didn’t want to.

Whoever she was, and whatever her credential were, it was an inappropriate intrusion.

And something about it, something about her, just didn’t feel right.

I was glad I extricated myself. This woman would pop up several times in the days and months to come and I still don’t really know who she is or what she was trying to achieve”

Can’t say I blame her for being sceptical of a total stranger, and a pushy one at that. What kind of power did Mrs Martin believe she had that could have helped them?

Maybe it's just me but if my daughter was in the hands of an abductor I'd be taking help from whoever was offering it.

retro:electro · 26-03-2019 12:48AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

maebee wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but if my daughter was in the hands of an abductor I'd be taking help from whoever was offering it.

It’s all relative I suppose. I can’t say I would be divulging details to a pushy stranger who felt entitled to know everything out of sheer nosiness, and I don’t blame Kate for being cynical in the slightest. She embarked on her mission based solely on her own authority, she wasn’t enlisted by anyone. I think that’s completely unprofessional and strange.

maebee · 26-03-2019 12:50AM

Accident happened, parents hid body

"David was standing nearby.
Concerned he took me aside and pointed out that we didn’t know who this woman was or what she was doing there. He reassured me that I wasn’t obliged to speak to her if I didn’t want to. And I didn’t want to"

Even more strange.

http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com/2016/09/is-dr-david-payne-formerly-of-leicester.html

"She (thought) she had seen that friend of the McCann’s before. Then, she seemed to remember the name and where she knew him from. (As) it transpired later, David Payne had been reported in England as suspect of inappropriate behaviour towards children!"

gozunda · 26-03-2019 12:51AM

Something Else

maebee wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but if my daughter was in the hands of an abductor I'd be taking help from whoever was offering it.

The other consideration that as professional Kate should I would have thought welcomed the help of another professional. Especially one who was also British and had established her bonafides as someone in worked in the area of child protection.

Either way I reckon she was correct to warn Kate about speaking to the media imo. Pity she didn't take that advice ...

Plumbthedepths · 26-03-2019 12:52AM

retro:electro wrote:

Itâ€™s all relative I suppose. I canâ€™t say I would be divulging details to a pushy stranger who felt entitled to know everything out of sheer nosiness, and I donâ€™t blame Kate for being cynical in the slightest. She embarked on her mission based solely on her own authority, she wasnâ€™t enlisted by anyone. I think thatâ€™s completely unprofessional and strange.

A pushy stranger who identified herself with her credentials?

retro:electro · 26-03-2019 12:55AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A pushy stranger who identified herself with her credentials?

She was a stranger to Kate? She got an off feeling about it and listened to it. She is a social worker, she’s not in the industry of finding missing children.

No doubt if she had accepted her help it would instead be used as a rod to beat them with and the narrative “why were they accepting the help of random strangers who don’t have any experience with finding missing children”, as is par for the course with others they enlisted.

Plumbthedepths · 26-03-2019 12:57AM

retro:electro wrote:

She was a stranger to Kate? She got an off feeling about it and listened to it. She is a social worker, sheâ€™s not in the industry of finding missing children.

She was a professional who identified herself, interesting that she recognised David Anthony Payne from the course of her work.

retro:electro · 26-03-2019 12:59AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

She was a professional who identified herself, interesting that she recognised David Anthony Payne from the course of her work.

When someone identifies themselves to you for the first time they’re still a stranger. She was a stranger, and Kate decided to decline her pushy and entitled requests. I don’t blame her for that.

maebee · 26-03-2019 12:59AM

Accident happened, parents hid body

retro:electro wrote: »

It’s all relative I suppose. I can’t say I would be divulging details to a pushy stranger who felt entitled to know everything out of sheer nosiness, and I don’t blame Kate for being cynical in the slightest. She embarked on her mission based solely on her own authority, she wasn’t enlisted by anyone. I think that’s completely unprofessional and strange.

Yvonne Martin had worked in Child Protection Services for 25 years. She was in PDL at the time of Madeleine's disappearance and offered her help, which was refused by the McCanns. Unbelievable.

Plumbthedepths · 26-03-2019 01:04AM

retro:electro wrote:

When someone identifies themselves to you, theyâ€™re still a stranger. She was a stranger, and Kate decided to decline her pushy and entitled requests. I donâ€™t blame her for that.

From my reading of the witness statement Kate was lead away from talking to her.
Sure everyone is a stranger until they introduce themselves as I said the person in question identified herself and offered her credentials. Seems turning down genuine help was common occurrence.

gozunda · 26-03-2019 01:06AM

Something Else

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A pushy stranger who identified herself with her credentials?

...Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home. Associating all of this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 % of missing children cases, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it was her duty to inform the police of this.

Something that the parents would also have been aware of being medical professional imo
:eek:

retro:electro · 26-03-2019 01:09AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Seems turning down genuine help was common occurrence.

Im not sure how a social worker thought she could help find a missing child. It’s nothing to do with the nature of their job.

I have difficulty with the inability of some to recognise just how out of order and unprofessional her behaviour was.

It seems to me that they are criticised for both the help they enlisted and the help they chose to ignore. Again, every decision used as a rod to beat them with whatever particular way the wind happens to be blowing.

*shrugs*

Plumbthedepths · 26-03-2019 01:14AM

The McCanns kept strange company, going to the home of a paedophile for dinner. Their friend Payne known to a child protection officer through the course of her work and subject of a statement to Police in the UK.

maebee · 26-03-2019 01:18AM

Accident happened, parents hid body

retro:electro wrote: »

Im not sure how a social worker thought she could help find a missing child. It’s nothing to do with the nature of their job.

*shrugs*

Are you for real? If I found myself in a foreign country and my child had just been "abducted", I would bite the hand off the English Social Worker wanting to help me.

Plumbthedepths · 26-03-2019 01:20AM

retro:electro wrote:

Im not sure how a social worker thought she could help find a missing child. Itâ€™s nothing to do with the nature of their job.

She advised Kate not to speak to the media, good advice but as with advice of that nature it was ignored by the McCanns. Anyway you have said what you believed happened and you will not diverge from that. Paraphrasing but that's the gist of a reply you gave.

retro:electro · 26-03-2019 01:21AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

maebee wrote: »

Are you for real? If I found myself in a foreign country and my child had just been "abducted", I would bite the hand off the Social Worker wanting to help me.

Good for you. Like I said, it’s all relative. I don’t judge them for decling. She commented herself on the dreadful state Kate was in and then proceeded to bombard her with the most intrusive questions. Ultimately, she was nothing more than a stranger off the street with zero experience in finding missing children.
Repeating myself now and I’ve made my position clear so I won’t be commenting further on this.

gozunda · 26-03-2019 01:22AM

Something Else

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The McCanns kept strange company, going to the home of a paedophile for dinner. Their friend Payne known to a child protection officer through the course of her work and subject of a statement to Police in the UK.

And the child protection officer remarking that he appeared to be minding the twins.

I do wonder whether the McCanns and the Paynes still go on holiday together and does David Payne still bathe the children. Very odd behaviour tbh ..

Plumbthedepths · 26-03-2019 01:28AM

gozunda wrote:

I wonder do the McCanns and the Paynes still go on holiday together and does David Payne still bathe the children...

If someone spoke to me about my 4 year old child in a sexualised manner, I'd be going away but not on holidays. That fact Gerry seemed to be ok with the conversation is disturbing to say the least.

maebee · 26-03-2019 01:29AM

Accident happened, parents hid body

retro:electro wrote: »

I don’t judge them for decling.

?
They declined help in finding their missing daughter? These are the people who launched a million dollar campaign to find their missing daughter

Plumbthedepths · 26-03-2019 01:35AM

maebee wrote:

? They declined help in finding their missing daughter? These are the people who launched a million dollar campaign to find their missing daughter

It seems from the statement once it became clear who and what Yvonne was the person with the McCanns couldn't get them away from her fast enough. Curious.

MonkieSocks · 26-03-2019 01:35AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The McCanns kept strange company, going to the home of a paedophile for dinner. Their friend Payne known to a child protection officer through the course of her work and subject of a statement to Police in the UK.

So did the Leicestershire investigate the allegation she made about David Payne.

Such an allegation made to police would require an investigation.

He's still working as a Doctor,what did the investigation find

Plumbthedepths · 26-03-2019 01:44AM

MonkieSocks wrote:

Such an allegation made to police would require an investigation.

You'd be ok with another man talking abiut your 4 year old daughter in a sexualised manner?

retro:electro · 26-03-2019 01:45AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

MonkieSocks wrote: »

So did the Leicestershire investigate the allegation she made about David Payne.

Such an allegation made to police would require an investigation.

He's still working as a Doctor,what did the investigation find

Did she even make an allegation? Or was the sum total of her contribution that she had a “feeling” she had seen him at some stage in her line of work, and wasn’t sure of the capacity.

From PJ:

She adds that her hypothesis is that she may have come to know him professionally through work, potentially having been colleagues at work or have worked at the same place but she cannot be certain where she met him as she does not remember

However she added about him: She clarifies that she is capable of making a photographic identification of the individual, and emphasises that with the identified photo it is possible to access the database of the British Police and ascertain whether the individual is related to any crimes involving children

I wonder how that went..

Necro · 26-03-2019 01:46AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I dunno, some randomer comes up and shoves documents in my face in the aftermath of my child going missing they'd be more likely to be punched in the face than me accepting their assistance.

Don't see how a social worker can provide any assistance to the Mc Canns in this instance.

Also they'd likely not want to engage with social workers at all given the lead up to Madeline going missing.

MonkieSocks · 26-03-2019 01:48AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

retro:electro wrote: »

.

....

Processos Vol XIII
Page 3421
Date : 2007 – 11 - 14

To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation Paolo Rebelo

From: Paolo Ferreira, Inspector

Service Information

Subject: Expedient related to Yvone Warren Martin

In the sequence of the contents of the service information in annex, which was prepared by Inspector Josonteira on 12 – 06 – 2007, the questioning of Yvone Warren Martin was twice begun, according to the files that are also joined to this.

The statement relates in detail her intervention with the McCann couple after having heard about Madeleine’s disappearance.

She adds that on one occasion, because it had occurred to her that the parents and the friends could eventually be involved in the child’s disappearance,
she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police.

The statements given to the PJ today by Yvone Martin provide a concrete clarification of the reasons for her suspicions, which in my opinion, do not point to any concrete element that could, in any way, make other inquiries directly related to her statements, viable.

With nothing further to add.

Signed

Inspector Ferreira

maebee · 26-03-2019 01:51AM

Accident happened, parents hid body

MonkieSocks wrote: »

So did the Leicestershire investigate the allegation she made about David Payne.

Such an allegation made to police would require an investigation.

He's still working as a Doctor,what did the investigation find

Leicestershire police have been known to hold back. They held back on the Gaspars statements for 5 months

MonkieSocks · 26-03-2019 01:53AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You'd be ok with another man talking abiut your 4 year old daughter in a sexualised manner?

WTF :mad:

I was responding to your post, where you said Payne was a pedo and come up with this ****.

The lowest point this thread as ever gone.

Plumbthedepths · 26-03-2019 01:53AM

Necro wrote:

Also they'd likely not want to engage with social workers at all given the lead up to Madeline going missing.

This I would imagine was the reason for the dismissal of help, also D Payne may not have been comfortable with her being around .

Madeleine McCann

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